What's so special about John Entwistle?

[jamro217]

In an era of basic meat and potatoes style bassists Ox stood out like a sore thumb. Similar to Chris Squire or Jack Bruce in that he brought the bass from a background foundational instrument to the forefront with virtuosity and imagination. Regardless of your opinion of The Who's musical catalog you must give credit where it is due as it pertains to the bass and it's role. Musical tastes have a negative side. They make it easy to reject or overlook the merits of those in groups or genres you don't appreciate. Innovation can be found in almost any musical situation. Using the techniques of multitracking a solid body guitar doesn't mean you have to listen to Les Paul And Mary Ford's recordings. You still can benefit from the pioneers without being a fan. This principle applies to bassists. too. I'm not a Who or Beatles fan, but ignoring their influence on the musical world is impossible. If you started playing the bass because you heard your bass hero and decided you had to play bass, too, they may have started playing because they saw/heard that in Ox or Macca. You, therefore, are a product of The Who and The Beatle's influence like it or not. Is John Entwistle the best bassist evah? According a recent internet poll he is, apparently.

 

[Chickenwheels]

He took an electric bass and used it in a completely original, creative and no-derivative way. He even modified aspects of the instrument and its amplication to suit his artistic vision. Understand him or not, he’s OG.

 

[Pauly 4001]

The Ox was a big influence on Chris Squire's sound and approach:
"Your bass playing is very different from a lot of the bands from the era in which Yes started. How did you develop your sound?

Just naturally, really. I used to be a big fan of John Entwistle and The Who. I first went to see them and John was actually playing a Rickenbacker bass at the time and I thought, “That sounds like a cool sound.” That’s why I went out and bought one myself. So I kind of always liked the idea of that kind of rawer sound, swing bass, round-wound string sound. And I guess a combination of how I set the tone controls on the bass, together with the Marshall 100 Watt, that I actually still use, which is an amp from the mid-‘60s. The way I set that up and everything, I guess I just waited until I was happy with the sound of it".
Where you viewed as kind of an unorthodox bass player when Yes started?

I think you would say that, yeah (laughs). I don’t know. It’s funny, it does go back again to my influence, of course, as a teenager, of The Who, who were definitely my favorite band. And of course I wanted to be a showman like [Pete] Townshend was but I wanted to get Entwistle’s great sound. So, I guess I combined both traits of those characters and tried to own that personality.

 

[thabassmon]

[/QUOTE

Come on dude! You have got to be joking! I understand not caring for their individual styles or techniques. I can understand not liking them as people. But, that just seems like such an ignorant statement to me.

I'm not being ignorant, on the contrary its from being informed by reading and watching many interviews with them and their contemporaries, watching many documentaries of music from that time period, viewing a lot of concert footage, hearing many albums over the years.
As others have alluded to, it's common knowledge that the other band members of the Who were not the most capable.
And I said nothing against their playing style, or lifestyle choices.

 

[frankie5string]

He took an electric bass and used it in a completely original, creative and no-derivative way. He even modified aspects of the instrument and its amplication to suit his artistic vision. Understand him or not, he’s OG.

Not exactly. He admitted he got his playing style from being a horn player. His lines were quite horn-like.

 

[BassBrass]

I would say they Entwistle was the guy who took bass from the traditional R&B support function and brought it to an orchestral level, he was a whole cello and bass section musically, could go anywhere and with astonishing chops. Brass players make good bass players. Me (who only a few have heard), Flee and Entwistle (playing mellophone usually), we know how to Project. If you can't project you can't even make a decent sound on brass, you have to commit to, attack every note, even soft ones.
I remember that evening I first heard Live At Leeds broadcast (through my Realistic FM), in full on WBCN Boston. Probably when I saw what bass guitar could be. Years later I saw Mic Karn. That was lesson no. 2.

 

[Thegrandwazoo]

Entwistle was pretty good, that can't be denied. Nowhere remotely near the best, even among fairly similar players. I don't really get it either. I guess he was pretty innovative, doing a lot of things in certain ways before those things were done in those ways on a regular basis, at least by a year or two. I don't hate the Who, nor do I hate Entwistle, but I'm not as impressed as everyone says I have to be, and I never will be.

 

[thabassmon]

Not exactly. He admitted he got his playing style from being a horn player. His lines were quite horn-like.

Very true. With a few exceptions such as James Jamerson most of the people considered to be bass legends have other instruments in their background. Might be something about the different perspective.

 

[smtp4me]

I think Entwistle was a pioneer, of sorts. His technique was horrible, but it worked for him.

 

[Mata Leao]

Cool story!

Bro. It's cool story, 'bro'.

 

[Michedelic]

He also did it all while on massive amounts of coke... He even went out on the wings of a hooker and coke binge.

That’s not fair...that kind of rockstar self indulgence came later in life; those guys might have been pill heads to a certain extent, just like their mod following, in the beginning, and certainly messed around with pot and acid like everybody else did, but in their heyday, when John was creating his legend, they were huge boozers.

 

[Element Zero]

Don’t feel bad. I’m sure you like players that other people don’t get.

 

[Tubehed]

I'm not being ignorant, on the contrary its from being informed by reading and watching many interviews with them and their contemporaries, watching many documentaries of music from that time period, viewing a lot of concert footage, hearing many albums over the years.
As others have alluded to, it's common knowledge that the other band members of the Who were not the most capable.
And I said nothing against their playing style, or lifestyle choices.

I've probably read, watched and listened to as many things as you have. I guess we are seeing and hearing completely different things, which is cool. I disagree about it being common knowledge that the other members were not the most capable. Opinions are not common knowledge and there are plenty of musicians, writers and music fans who would passionately disagree with this claim. Certainly, a statement like Pete and Keith are terrible, or something to that effect, is so absolute and dismissive of their considerable talents, IMO.

 

[WestyBassBob]

Entwhistle was unique in several ways. One thing I don't hear people mention is that The Who did some nice vocal arrangements (Tattoo for example), and I think the reason they (usually) worked was largely due to the three distinctly different voices John, Pete and Roger had. John Entwhistle had a remarkable sounding voice; deep, gritty, snarling almost. (Not to mention that "What's for tea, daughter?" Boris the Spider voice.) Listen to his solo albums; his version of Heaven and Hell (which he wrote) is way more in character with the song, much better than the Who version I think.

I saw The Who twice, and he had powerful presence on stage. Made it look so easy.

So, what's so great about a player who put bass on the map, had outrageous chops, good writing skills and a memorable voice? Oh, and could stand Keith Moon? You tell me.

Tom

Let’s see here. One of the first bassists to use roundwounds, developed the typewriter method of playing, one of the first to use Marshall stacks and often held down the melody while Pete played the rhythm and made people realize bassists could do more than just pluck two frets in time to the beat. Yeah he totally sucks.

 

[4001]

I have watched those isolated bass tracks too........ I think they are pretty boring...

and isolated, the magic is kind of missing because Ox sounds better when he's blended in with the rest of The Who....just my opinion...

I'm not impressed with those vids...if I were Ox, I don't think I'd want those out there...the performance is mediocre...really..

I do like The Who and many of their tunes and think Entwistle recorded many memorable bass lines that any one of us would be proud to have created.... but those isolated tracks really aren't a good example.

 

[WestyBassBob]

It’s really interesting to see how we can identify musical skills and talent in various bands or players and loathe what they actually play. For me it’s Phish. Yeah. Those guys are really good musicians. Yet somehow they consistently make music that makes me want to be deaf.

 

[frankie5string]

That’s not fair...that kind of rockstar self indulgence came later in life; those guys might have been pill heads to a certain extent, just like their mod following, in the beginning, and certainly messed around with pot and acid like everybody else did, but in their heyday, when John was creating his legend, they were huge boozers.

Daltrey claims everyone (except for him) in the band was taking drugs in the early 60s. Virtually everyone in that band had a serious vice or serious issues with their upbringing - and drugs helped them deal with it. Daltrey claimed he never took drugs because he was afraid it would affect his libido...lol!

I have no reason to believe that Entwistle didn't begin using drugs as soon as he could obtain them.

 

[Thundertips]

In an era of basic meat and potatoes style bassists Ox stood out like a sore thumb. Similar to Chris Squire or Jack Bruce in that he brought the bass from a background foundational instrument to the forefront with virtuosity and imagination. Regardless of your opinion of The Who's musical catalog you must give credit where it is due as it pertains to the bass and it's role. Musical tastes have a negative side. They make it easy to reject or overlook the merits of those in groups or genres you don't appreciate. Innovation can be found in almost any musical situation. Using the techniques of multitracking a solid body guitar doesn't mean you have to listen to Les Paul And Mary Ford's recordings. You still can benefit from the pioneers without being a fan. This principle applies to bassists. too. I'm not a Who or Beatles fan, but ignoring their influence on the musical world is impossible. If you started playing the bass because you heard your bass hero and decided you had to play bass, too, they may have started playing because they saw/heard that in Ox or Macca. You, therefore, are a product of The Who and The Beatle's influence like it or not. Is John Entwistle the best bassist evah? According a recent internet poll he is, apparently.

Yes, Paul McCartney was great too. I stole a lot of bass lines and techniques from him when I was learning cuz I play with a pick too and liked his more bare bones melodic style without playing a million notes.

 

[Ric5]

 

[WestyBassBob]

Daltrey claims everyone (except for him) in the band was taking drugs in the early 60s. Virtually everyone in that band had a serious vice or serious issues with their upbringing - and drugs helped them deal with it. Daltrey claimed he never took drugs because he was afraid it would affect his libido...lol!

I have no reason to believe that Entwistle didn't begin using drugs as soon as he could obtain them.

Well he was using coke right up until he died. And all of them were big boozers I don’t care what Roger says.

Keith was crazy. John was definitely a weirdo and Pete was traumatized by childhood sexual abuse. And they all loved booze pills and cigarettes.