What's the key to getting this Low E punchy sound?

[Bag of Lazers]

P Bass with flats, sunburst, tort, high action. The way I heard it O’Brien couldn’t get Commerford mixed through so he asked him to redo the entire Evil Empire sessions with the banana’d P they had in a closet. Weezer also recorded a few miscellaneous songs at Cole Rehearsal so Mikey had to use the same bass.

 

[Michael Hunter]

We have different experiences. That's OK.

Indeed. Interestingly, it’s also been my experience that 5s tend to have more even response on the D and G strings, and rarely have the 7th-9th fret “dead zone” that 4s often have. As always, YMMV.

 

[songwriter21]

I feel like I often have trouble getting that punchy Low E string bass sound on all my basses: Precision, Jazz, Stingray. Since it goes across the different basses, I'm wondering if it's an EQing thing, a technique thing, strings, or something else. The video above is my ideal Low E tone...look at all those riffs on frets 0 through 5. Clear and punchy but still bringing the low end.

I have an Helix LT, so I can choose whatever I'd like amp/cab/mic wise. I play through headphones at home, and through a PA, be it at practice or gigs or church. So assuming I have all those factors at my fingertips, what amp/cab setting should I pick, how should I EQ. And are there strings that can get me that punchy Low E sound?

Hey, dude--I have a Fishman-equipped ESP LTD F-1005, strung with Elixir nickel-plated steels that lay pretty low to the fretboard. There are no effects added to this cover of mine, just the on-board eq. I used my phone, and a little Roland Go-Mixer Pro to record this:

https://youtu.be/1Na9xEvM4mk​

 

[micguy]

Indeed. Interestingly, it’s also been my experience that 5s tend to have more even response on the D and G strings, and rarely have the 7th-9th fret “dead zone” that 4s often have. As always, YMMV.

We agree they are less susceptible to dead spots on the G string. The stiffer structure moves the resonance frequency up, where it’s less noticeable.

 

[songwriter21]

I feel like I often have trouble getting that punchy Low E string bass sound on all my basses: Precision, Jazz, Stingray. Since it goes across the different basses, I'm wondering if it's an EQing thing, a technique thing, strings, or something else. The video above is my ideal Low E tone...look at all those riffs on frets 0 through 5. Clear and punchy but still bringing the low end.

I have an Helix LT, so I can choose whatever I'd like amp/cab/mic wise. I play through headphones at home, and through a PA, be it at practice or gigs or church. So assuming I have all those factors at my fingertips, what amp/cab setting should I pick, how should I EQ. And are there strings that can get me that punchy Low E sound?

Getting really tight lows is really easy when you are recording direct. Getting really tight lows live, IMHO, is difficult to impossible.

Start with a bass that produces the desired tone and response. This includes consideration for the string choice, age of the strings, and setup. It also includes how you adjust the bass...solo or fade toward the bridge pickup for more punch.

Next play with a technique that generates the desired response. I originally played with relatively straight plucking fingers. I found that using arched plucking fingers produces a punchier tone and also allows a more variety in the range of attacks I can produce. Playing closer to the bridge generates a drier, punchier sound with leaner lows.

Apply appropriate effects such as EQ, drive, and compression.

For live work, you have control over which amp and cab you choose. Again, choose gear that can produce the desired tone and response.

You also have control over how you set up and adjust the rig. By set up, I mean how you position and aim the speakers. In my experience placing a cab flat on the floor tends to give you a looser by lower sound. Tilting a cab to aim at your head increases the amount of high mids and treble you hear. Elevating the cab reduces and contours the lows. The set up option that works best for you depends on your tone goals and what part of the frequency spectrum you focus on. For the record, I prefer both elevating the cab and tilting it back to aim at my head.

What you hear on stage is a combination or ratio of direct sound and reflected sound. As the decay time increases, you hear more reflected sound. Elevating the cab and aiming it at your head increases the amount of direct sound. So you may take a situational approach and change your setup depending on room acoustics.

This was an Ibanez BTB776PB of mine, mixed with a direct GK 1001-RB signal, and a mic'd Markbass 2x10 cab. I think the mic was an Audix D112?

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It's actually pretty easy to get a tight, clear and authoritative tone on stage. It's mostly the midrange, then go from there. I say the sweet spot for me is 630-800. Enough lo-mid thump left, mixed with hi-mid growl, and a little bass to make the subs rattle. Season the treble to taste.

I now get a similar tone with just a Zoom MS60B on stage...no amp or cab (direct with in-ears).

 

[Sid Fang]

The placement of his right hand and how he’s plucking the string is probably most of it.

This is my experience and there's science to it. What we perceive as "punch", even if two people might disagree on relative punchiness, is a spectral envelope. Simplistically, the set of volume levels over time for all of the harmonic overtones of the note. So there's a harmonic factor, and an envelope factor. Where you pluck up and down the string influences the harmonic content, because you're putting energy into the string at a specific point, and the relationship of that point to the center of the vibrating section of string affects which partials are emphasized. How your fingertip interacts mechanically with the string is the other. It theory, the string is either struck or plucked - in one case, the sound envelope comes from the string accelerating into higher tension, in the other, accelerating into lower tension. Aggressive bass guitar playing isn't just plucking anymore, and the way the fingertip strikes and releases is what will control the attack envelopes in subtle but real ways.

Short form: Work out your method by deliberately varying *where* and *how* you pluck the string until it sounds right.

 

[Fynn]

That's not what I would call punchy, but I think I understand what you mean. This example is quite honky sounding, meaning it has quite a bit of midrange. You can get midrange by plucking close to the bridge, having pickups close to the bridge, putting an EQ on those frequencies and so on. When you want it to sound tighter, you can use compression and make sure to really cut those notes short with your playing/muting.
A lot of it really is where you pluck the string, and everything else is just to amplify that effect really.

Another thing that can help is some overdrive, which often makes the low end disappear a bit (making it sound more midrangy and more defined) and adds some harmonic content that makes the notes pop out a bit more.

Here's a little ranking of what I think probably is most important to making a punchy tone:

1. Pluck close to the bridge
2. Use pickups close to the bridge (for example MM bridge pickup)
3. Remove unnecessary low end (potentially a high pass filter, or just EQ that removes boomy low end)
4. Use a compressor that might have a bit slower attack, so the transients get through but the signal isn't overpowering the rest
5. Leave some space between notes (mute properly so that only the transients and a bit of the note come through)

 

[HardNHeavy]

humbuckers!

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

This might sound crazy, but I think the E string almost always sounds better on a 5 string bass than on a 4 string.

I don't know what you mean with "better", but IME the E string is almost always tighter on a 4 string, and fatter and looser on a 5 string.

 

[Derek Kay]

The E - G stringS on my 5er sound less heavy than on my 4 string. I can use slightly heavier strings on it than the 5er as the range isn't so low. I suspect this is the norm.

The tradeoff is that I can play the 5er more mid fingerboard. That gives me enough resonance if I find the right place to pluck.
Different instrument, different style.

Like for OP's performance. How bigger would it sound on a 4 string, with a detuner for the lower note sectiom?

 

[burgerdj]

Timmy DRILLS the string on the attack. He and Brad are also very tight (one of the best bass/drum duos of the 90s IMHO). Low mids are your friend.

 

[InhumanResource]

I have trouble getting “punch” out of ear buds or head phones as well. IMO, to get punch, I need need speakers.

I feel like I often have trouble getting that punchy Low E string bass sound on all my basses: Precision, Jazz, Stingray. Since it goes across the different basses, I'm wondering if it's an EQing thing, a technique thing, strings, or something else. The video above is my ideal Low E tone...look at all those riffs on frets 0 through 5. Clear and punchy but still bringing the low end.

I have an Helix LT, so I can choose whatever I'd like amp/cab/mic wise. I play through headphones at home, and through a PA, be it at practice or gigs or church. So assuming I have all those factors at my fingertips, what amp/cab setting should I pick, how should I EQ. And are there strings that can get me that punchy Low E sound?

This sounds mostly like a bridge pickup being favored or soloed. Your stingray won’t make this sound and your jazz will kind of get there, but it’ll be thinner and need help with low mid boost.

 

[Wasnex]

I think the mic was an Audix D112?

AFAIK no such mic. The current Audix bass drum mic is the D6. The D112 is an AKG.

 

[backin82]

One thing that may be contributing to the perception of punch here is that the bass is locked to the kick drum, and we may be hearing a bit of bass from the original track in the background. Double-tracking thickens up the sound. It’s common practice to split the input so you have a dry track plus an effected / EQed track and blend it in the mix. Compression can also thicken it a bit (though you want to keep some dynamic range in there).

If you want to get that kind of sound live, you might try something like a TC Electronic Mimiq doubler pedal, maybe an octaver for a hint of sub-bass. Maybe a pedalboard with an a/b splitter, separate FX chains for dry/wet and a biamp or dual amp setup.

Ding ding ding!!! Playing in time with the kick is the single best way to get the punch most of us perceive and try to achieve so often.

Keep in mind that we often attempt this with JUST a bass, amp, and some effects while the source we're attempting to mimic is a quantized, compressed, with often a ton of post-processing additions to make it even more pronounced.

In the Rick Beato interview with Tim Henson from Polyphia, Tim dives into how they achieve a lot of their sound where they mix an 808 into the bass guitar or kick drum off of a trigger, then quantize it all later. Its not something many of us can achieve when plugging into a practice amp in our bedrooms.

All that said, I'm not hearing much "punch" in the OP's video....

 

[Wasnex]

It's actually pretty easy to get a tight, clear and authoritative tone on stage.

YMMV.

IMHO, results depend significantly on both your source tone and acoustics. I concede that the Ibanez basses I have played seemed to excel with this sort of tone. My #1 bass does not; so it's not so easy for me, especially in venue that has lot's of build up in the low mids.

If the acoustics are bad enough, getting a clear, tight bass sound live is pretty much impossible; regardless of your source tone. Say for example, playing in a gym, hangar, or similar venue. In my experience the range between about 180hz and 400hz can be especially tricky. I think this range is very important for this particular bass sound, but it's common to have a lot of build up in this range that causes serious masking problems for entire mix.

 

[songwriter21]

YMMV.

IMHO, results depend significantly on both your source tone and acoustics. I concede that the Ibanez basses I have played seemed to excel with this sort of tone. My #1 bass does not; so it's not so easy for me, especially in venue that has lot's of build up in the low mids.

If the acoustics are bad enough, getting a clear, tight bass sound live is pretty much impossible; regardless of your source tone. Say for example, playing in a gym, hangar, or similar venue. In my experience the range between about 180hz and 400hz can be especially tricky. I think this range is very important for this particular bass sound, but it's common to have a lot of build up in this range that causes serious masking problems for entire mix.

Yeah, those basement-like, concrete, echoey/bouncy acoustics are indeed terrible (most of the time).

 

[6-3-2]

Part of it is the distortion. It's likely cutting the low end a bit, which tightens up the sound.

 

[callmejs]

Tons of good insights above... plus 35"scale doesn't hurt for tightness

 

[eddododo]

Look at where his pick ups are placed, look at where his hand is placed with regards to the pick up and with regards to the bridge itself. Look at how his hand is attacking the string.

Those three are probably the most important pieces of information… I think anything vaguely stingray-ish would do fine, And really anything with an aggressive bridge or maybe sweet spot pick up.

All that being said, for this specifically, I think if you heard the isolated base, you’d be surprised at what it sounds compared to the recording with the track… Within this “mix” it’s going to give a very different impression versus what this would sound like a bedroom

 

[Dust2Dust]

This might sound crazy, but I think the E string almost always sounds better on a 5 string bass than on a 4 string.

Same here. The first few times I played my 5 I kept looking down thinking I might be plucking the B string

. . . and that was with a 100 round wound E string