What's up with the Combo negativity?

[svtb15]

I have been using a Genz Benz Contour 500 210 for a few gigs this year. It has not gotten the full workout i would like since im using my larger rig the past few months. But So far this unit is unique.... I started a thread about it here http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/genz-benz-new-contour-500-combo-series-866797/
The DI out is superb.. and I have run it with the extension speaker cab underneath.. And it has headphone out to practice too.. but i love the Contour control with the Semi Para Mid control.. Check it out

 

[Mushroo]

I can't tell you how many times I've carried my $2000 SVT out to the SUV at 2:00am in a dark parking lot full of half drunk riff raff all watching me pack out and then wondering if it's still going to be in the car when I come back with the $1000 610 cab then wondering if either of them will still be in the car when I get back with another $1000 in basses. Not a comforting thought.

I hear that! These days I gig with SX and Peavey, and save my nice gear for the studio.

 

[millsbass5]

In every "what amp should I buy" thread, there are always the guys commenting to not buy a Combo but a separate head and cab (mix and match, interchangeability, etc...) and pretty much hating on the combos.

I happen to think that if they were really not that user friendly, manufacturers wouldn't still be making / selling them.
Somebody is buying them and it can't be just "noobs" who don't know any better.

I also believe that these comments dismissing Combos are just a bunch of people regurgitating stuff they have heard others say.

Personally, I like combos.
My main amp is an old Genz Benz combo, it has a DI and the ability to add an extension cab should I care to.

My Peavey tube amp / SWR rig is packed away in the closet.

Anybody else dig their Combos?

Hmmm. No one buying combos....That,my friend,is called the dreaded,"Bigger is better syndrome." They'll all come around.

IMO,if most bands had (a) A quality P.A. (b)The other players in the band using some discipline to play at a reasonable volume (guitarists!!),the majority of bassists (in their right mind) playing small,even up to Medium-Large gigs,could/would use a good,kickass quality combo.

And no,I don't own a combo. I'll say it,I'M TIGHT with my cash. Play time with gear can come in a few years. I'm too damn busy gettin' my 'turds in a herd' financially,for the future. It won't be long though,for damn sure. But,until then......

 

[skwee]

I think it would be a stretch for me to ever buy a head and cab. Not as long as I have a direct out of a combo.

 

[Russell L]

Nothing wrong with a combo. They have their uses. I have several, and I also have a separate head/speaker(s) rig. I love a combo for the small gigs. Just plug in and play.

 

[coyote1]

When someone puts a 200+ watt tube head in a 215 cab I'll buy it.
Until then I will stick with what I have.

Which would sorta defeat the combo concept, wouldn't it... although the new Class D amps could easily fit in any cabinet without adding more than a few pounds.

Ultimately, I'm guessing that bass amplification will go where PA already has gone: Powered cabinets. No need to guess about the proper amp, because it's already built in. Then you'd just get a preamp that gives you the features and tone you desire, and you feed that signal to as many cabinets as fits the scenario.

 

[jnewmark]

I have been using a Roland DB700 combo for about 10 years for small venue gigs, or when I have great PA support. I also go the other way with separate head and cab for louder or larger gigs. I think the main objection to combos is that the drivers are usually crammed in too small a box for not the best results. I have no complaints, and, for one and done set gigs, it's easy to roll it in and out.

 

[Son of Bovril]

The only issue I've had with combos is that if either the head or speaker breaks, the other one can't easily be used separately, or if you only want to upgrate one part, you can't so easily do so...

sure, you can add an extension cab to some combos. the size and weight of separates nowadays, has come down hugely, and the only benefit I see to a combo is a one hand load compared to two and no need to hook up extra cables.

There is nothing wrong with combos, but there are just more benefits to separates than there are for combos IMO

 

[CL400Peavey]

When someone puts a 200+ watt tube head in a 215 cab I'll buy it.
Until then I will stick with what I have.

+1

If I am going to haul my tube head (100 pounds) why worry about cab weight? (even though I did shave 60 pounds off my rig)

Which would sorta defeat the combo concept, wouldn't it... although the new Class D amps could easily fit in any cabinet without adding more than a few pounds.

Maybe with a tube head. There is a certain 39 pound 215 that I posted about that kills. Air head a light weight amp to it, and it will be lighter than some combos, but louder than an 810 rig.

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Ultimately, I'm guessing that bass amplification will go where PA already has gone: Powered cabinets. No need to guess about the proper amp, because it's already built in. Then you'd just get a preamp that gives you the features and tone you desire, and you feed that signal to as many cabinets as fits the scenario.

I dont think so, see the below quote for a good explanation on why putting all your eggs in one basket isnt my idea of progress.

The only issue I've had with combos is that if either the head or speaker breaks, the other one can't easily be used separately, or if you only want to upgrate one part, you can't so easily do so...

sure, you can add an extension cab to some combos. the size and weight of separates nowadays, has come down hugely, and the only benefit I see to a combo is a one hand load compared to two and no need to hook up extra cables.

There is nothing wrong with combos, but there are just more benefits to separates than there are for combos IMO

+1

The point that I am going to add, is that the enclosures in 90% of combos suck. You may have decent amps and speakers in them, but to save space they have compromised on the enclosure and IMHO it's a deal breaker. I get the want for a lighter easier to transport rig. I have a 35 pound cab that is a top contender in its weight class for SPL/pound. I pair that up with a lighter head. 46 pound rig, cab is a one hand carry, head goes into a back pack with cables, bass in my free hand. In fact the cab is a one hand carry for anyone, I can make compromises to get weight down but not at the cost of box size effectively neutering my sound.

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[Tom_RCJ]

I blame volume wars. In part anyway.

Of course there are many factors witch vary from one person to the next, but one common factor, I believe, is volume. To be honest, I don't know what it's like in other parts of the world, but my personal experience has been that most musicians around here play very loud. Drummers don't understand that they don't NEED to bash the crap out of their drums. Guitarists find it easier to just crank the volume up rather than ask the drummer to play a bit lighter. Bass players end up carrying an 8-10 around, because otherwise they wouldn't hear themselves at all. That leaves the singer to hope and pray the house system is packing at least 4k watts (or whatever number). All this can be avoided if the first person played quieter to hear others instead of telling them to play louder.

Again, this is just my personal experience and might not be relevant in other areas. But our stage volume is very low, and we all have tiny combos and a little Sonor jungle kit and it all sounds great. Takes us 10-15 minutes from showing up to finishing soundcheck if we push it and the whole band fits in one minivan. And yes, we can still rock out like it's no ones business if that's what the gig calls for. I laugh when I see a band take an hour to set up a thousand pounds of gear in a 200-300 head venue and end up so loud it sounds like crap. It's just so much excess. I don't miss it at all.

If I had roadies, in-ear monitors and played stadiums, I'd totally have a giant rig though.

 

[swspiers]

+1

The point that I am going to add, is that the enclosures in 90% of combos suck. You may have decent amps and speakers in them, but to save space they have compromised on the enclosure and IMHO it's a deal breaker. I get the want for a lighter easier to transport rig. I have a 35 pound cab that is a top contender in its weight class for SPL/pound. I pair that up with a lighter head. 46 pound rig, cab is a one hand carry, head goes into a back pack with cables, bass in my free hand. In fact the cab is a one hand carry for anyone, I can make compromises to get weight down but not at the cost of box size effectively neutering my sound.

Yep. My Art of Noise 1212/6 is lighter than any combo I ever owned @ about 46 pounds. On small gigis I use a Genz Shuttlemax 12. One hand carry, bass slung over my shoulder, head in another bag on the other shoulder.

Nothing against combos at all- used one since 1978. But I'm not going back...

 

[CL400Peavey]

Yep. My Art of Noise 1212/6 is lighter than any combo I ever owned @ about 46 pounds. On small gigis I use a Genz Shuttlemax 12. One hand carry, bass slung over my shoulder, head in another bag on the other shoulder.

Nothing against combos at all- used one since 1978. But I'm not going back...

That and I beg anyone to show me a combo that can keep up with my 15/6.

 

[jnewmark]

That and I beg anyone to show me a combo that can keep up with my 15/6.

Why does it have to ?

 

[Dave W]

Nothing wrong with combos. They just serve a different purpose for me.

My gig rig is an amp/cab. I can take the same cabs that are relatively small and light while using whatever head I feel like.

My practice/small gig/etc rig is a combo amp. It's great to use when I can, but it doesn't provide enough volume for louder situations. Sure, I can add more speakers to it, but at that point why not just use the amp/cab stuff instead?

 

[cchorney]

I have to admit I salivate every damned time CL400Peavey posts pictures of his 35 pound 215.

For separates I have my GK 800RB and 60's Kustom 215 tuck-n-roll. It sounds wonderful. However, I rarely take it out anymore. Its just easier to grab my MB CMD102P (2x10 w/300watts at 8 ohms). And I go DI into PA if I need to louder.

That said, I stand by my usual advice - regardless of separates or combo - that you need at least a couple hundred watts at 8 ohms in what ever amp you use, and a single 10" speaker in a small box will probably not give you the tone you want and the volume you need when playing with other people. And my usual warning that combos are generally less expensive but not as flexible - if you want to change cabs you have to change amps as well, and vice versa, and if one component breaks the whole thing has to be sent out for repair.

 

[CL400Peavey]

Why does it have to ?

As I said, combos sacrifice enclosure size for weight/size savings. That is a tonal sacrifice as well. Also what if I cant play through the PA, making DI'ing for additional volume a moot point?

I want my stage sound to sound like I want, I cant get that from the small box of a combo. I also may need to carry the room, I also dont see a combo as a viable solution to that. I can do all that with my 15/6, and guess what? its still lighter than the majority of combo's.

 

[CL400Peavey]

I have to admit I salivate every damned time CL400Peavey posts pictures of his 39 pound 215.

The 215 isnt mine, its just a Mike Arnopol build that got me excited!

the 15/6 is mine, it is 35 pounds.

 

[nortonrider]

Thanks for the replies, a lot of the responses are what I expected to read.

For you rig guys - I have to wonder though........

.Do you break your amp or cab often enough that the extra step of separating a combo to send out the non working part for repair is even an issue?
(mine never breaks)

.I understand having the ability to move a head to different cabinets is cool, but how many people actually have a room full of different cabs that they are constantly using and swapping between?
From my experience, not too many. players will build a rig and use that setup, interchangeability doesn't factor in after that.

.If you think that something like this wont "carry the room", then you must be playing some pretty humongous rooms.

 

[hdracer]

Thanks for the replies, a lot of the responses are what I expected to read.

For you rig guys - I have to wonder though........

.Do you break your amp or cab often enough that the extra step of separating a combo to send out the non working part for repair is even an issue?
(mine never breaks)

.I understand having the ability to move a head to different cabinets is cool, but how many people actually have a room full of different cabs that they are constantly using and swapping between?
From my experience, not too many. players will build a rig and use that setup, interchangeability doesn't factor in after that.

.If you think that something like this wont "carry the room", then you must be playing some pretty humongous rooms.

The extension cab blows the combo part. Why not just use one of the high watt micro heads?

 

[CL400Peavey]

.If you think that something like this wont "carry the room", then you must be playing some pretty humongous rooms.

How much does that rig weigh? I am unfamiliar with the weight and other specs of that particular combo.