What's wrong with 2023 audiences?

[pepj]

Personally, I believe it's important to have a plan.

Also important to be willing to throw it out the window and just play the room when expectations don't align with the plan.

And perhaps most important to be willing to accept when things happen beyond the control of even the most engaging act and soldier on nevertheless.

Yep if you have 2 types of sets its not too much of a problem to duck and dive, but I emphasise what we have discussed and agreed and start from there.
If you are doing the chilled set and people start dancing..you need to be able to react to that.

Recently booked for an 80's gig and we played that...but apparently it wasn't cheesey enough said bar owner.
One mans cheese....???

 

[Pocket Dave]

Yep if you have 2 types of sets its not too much of a problem to duck and dive, but I emphasise what we have discussed and agreed and start from there.
If you are doing the chilled set and people start dancing..you need to be able to react to that.

Recently booked for an 80's gig and we played that...but apparently it wasn't cheesey enough said bar owner.
One mans cheese....???

Yep. '80's gotta be served with enough Velveeta to dull any semblance of edge. Otherwise it starts to get confused with '90s.

 

[WayneP]

It's the same reason Frank Zappa or Aphex Twin or Ornette Coleman didn't ever get into the top 10 of the Billboard Hot 100 chart. It's obvious you think about that. "Well of course not! They don't make the kind of music that relates to Billboard Hot 100 audiences! Now if only i can figure out why nobody comes to my band's shows anymore."

I remember in the late 1960s in the middle of the hippie era. I was too young to be one, only being in junior high, but my dad used to say, “In 20 years the ‘now’ generation will be the ‘was’ generation.” Might have taken a bit longer, but he was right. Rest in peace, Dad!

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Pedulla Club #45 Unique Arrangements of Hymns, P&W Standards, and Original Tunes
Administrator, Official Tobias Club #133
Administrator, Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
My Basses
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly
Pedulla Club #45

 

[Lance Bunyon]

Last night was a clusterfark. Drove an HOUR to TapIt in Indian Land SC. Bartender/manager was cool, we were doing the full trio show in the back parking lot by the heat pumps. Most of my focus was on my pulled hip flexor muscle and how to get through 3 hours of standing playing and singing.
And it was 95 degrees in the shade!
We began with an audience of 3...

At 8 pm the owners girlfriend texted us and instructed us to end at 8:30 due to lack of audience. Bartender/manager said she'd prorate a check for half price
Drummer and I were pissed!
I confronted BL and let him know we need to fight.
I wrote a long text to Mrs. Owner:
"Dear venue owners,
We have a written (SMS) contract to play 3 hours for $300. Lack of audience was not a discussed factor in said contract. If you do not honor this contract we will have no choice other than to bring you to small claims court in Lancaster county for Treble Damages ($900), court costs, (up to $200), and a full day of lost wages for 3 upper middle class men ($900) for a total $2100 on an original $300 contract..."

Just then the HUSBAND of the ownership team texted BL that we were not authorized to stop playing. He became all mealy mouthed when he realized his WIFE told us to stop!

I never sent my threatening text because the ownership team isn't even on the same page.
They own a failing business and took it out on us.
Once the prorated check clears I'm dropping all kinds of Yelp bombs on Tap It Indian Land SC.

The issue here was that BL becomes a deer in the headlights every time theres friction on a contract job and I told him to man up and learn how to manage properly.
Not sure how much longer we can go forward. We have another new place we are playing July 26. I'm expecting the worst, because that's how it's been going.
Oh, I forgot LoL! Skies were CLEAR all day except right over Tap It where we had 10 minutes of rain right on our gear so we had to break down and set up again lolololol!
I'm getting too old for this shizz...

 

[Lowbassman]

Wow, 40 pages of commiseration!
Now I would never say I haven't had gigs where the crowd was skells, but I dunno...
Most of my gigs-Bars, Clubs, lots of Corporate, Weddings, whatever it takes...
HAPPY!

People chirping, dancing, laughing, even clapping. Ar Guitar/Bass!! Whoooo-hooo.

My Wife's (singer) voice & looks probably inspire a lot of this, she does have a star quality, a star voice, and knows how to engage a crowd.
Which MIGHT ( I can't say) be an issue with your non-receptiveness from the crowd.
Yo gotta work 'em sometimes. I've watched her awaken those who sit on their arses instead of wing-dinging it up, and dance!
She simply says into the Mike: "C'mon y'all what is this? A Funeral?" "Let's get BUSY!" or something.

The other factor that counts is of course...
ALCOHOL!

The more they drink, the better you will sound to them, and the more they will be willing to engage. (Or fall into a coma).

Good luck!

 

[Pocket Dave]

Last night was a clusterfark. Drove an HOUR to TapIt in Indian Land SC. Bartender/manager was cool, we were doing the full trio show in the back parking lot by the heat pumps. Most of my focus was on my pulled hip flexor muscle and how to get through 3 hours of standing playing and singing.
And it was 95 degrees in the shade!
We began with an audience of 3...

At 8 pm the owners girlfriend texted us and instructed us to end at 8:30 due to lack of audience. Bartender/manager said she'd prorate a check for half price
Drummer and I were pissed!
I confronted BL and let him know we need to fight.
I wrote a long text to Mrs. Owner:
"Dear venue owners,
We have a written (SMS) contract to play 3 hours for $300. Lack of audience was not a discussed factor in said contract. If you do not honor this contract we will have no choice other than to bring you to small claims court in Lancaster county for Treble Damages ($900), court costs, (up to $200), and a full day of lost wages for 3 upper middle class men ($900) for a total $2100 on an original $300 contract..."

Just then the HUSBAND of the ownership team texted BL that we were not authorized to stop playing. He became all mealy mouthed when he realized his WIFE told us to stop!

I never sent my threatening text because the ownership team isn't even on the same page.
They own a failing business and took it out on us.
Once the prorated check clears I'm dropping all kinds of Yelp bombs on Tap It Indian Land SC.

The issue here was that BL becomes a deer in the headlights every time theres friction on a contract job and I told him to man up and learn how to manage properly.
Not sure how much longer we can go forward. We have another new place we are playing July 26. I'm expecting the worst, because that's how it's been going.
Oh, I forgot LoL! Skies were CLEAR all day except right over Tap It where we had 10 minutes of rain right on our gear so we had to break down and set up again lolololol!
I'm getting too old for this shizz...

Waitaminute.

You were told to cut it short and offered a pro rated payment?

Then you were told nevermind - play the full show.

Where's the rest of the money?

BL is not a BL if he didn't challenge that.

And $300????? Are you FKM? They nickel & dimed you out of a crappy $300? On first read, I thought 300 was the pro rated payment. Sure, I've done some $300 3-piece gigs on off nights, but even if only 3 people show, we get paid.

Carpet bomb the place with bad yelp and google reviews; While you're at it, leave a few for your BL.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

Waitaminute.

You were told to cut it short and offered a pro rated payment?

Then you were told nevermind - play the full show.

Where's the rest of the money?

BL is not a BL if he didn't challenge that.

And $300????? Are you FKM? They nickel & dimed you out of a crappy $300? On first read, I thought 300 was the pro rated payment. Sure, I've done some $300 3-piece gigs on off nights, but even if only 3 people show, we get paid.

Carpet bomb the place with bad yelp and google reviews; While you're at it, leave a few for your BL.

This ain't Texas, they don't pay here.
On the flip side, I own a $560,000 3000 square foot house in a lakeside HOA.
Priorities...

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I've been gigging for about 30 years. I cut my teeth as a super young guy in an oldies band playing doo wop and Motown to upstate NY audiences who danced and clapped and smoked their butts off.
While Boston audiences were more reserved in the oughties and tens, still lots of clapping and dancing.
I've been living in North Carolina for over 8 years. Metro Charlotte. Banking, not that different from Boston.
Lately I've noticed that audiences are going stepford. No clapping. No interaction. No dancing. About half the gigs I'm at are at some level "Wallpaper Gigs"...where the band might as well be a potted plant designed for ambiance.

We are all mostly top players in our 40s and 50s. We play a bit of everything in order to please a wide selection of people from all demographics -rock, pop, disco, country, R&B.
We're not ugly. Sure the singer could use to lose 30 lbs but he wears his soda belly well.
Something happened to society between 1993 and 2023. In 1993 everyone would at least golf clap after a song ended. It's polite.

Last night my trio was asked to play a benefit for leukemia. Someones daughter had actually survived and they were doing a fundraiser. We were all but ignored, they didn't offer us any of the communal food...the family of the girl didn't acknowledge us.
A paid wallpaper gig is one thing. I get a Benjamin to be ignored.
A wallpaper benefit gig is actually unacceptable. I've been honing my singing and playing skills for 40 years! We donated our time, skills, and the use of $10,000 in gear to a good cause.
I'm disgusted. I'm sure I'm just an old man yelling at clouds- but I think I'm done playing benefits unless there's concessions made for the band (FOOD FOOD FOOD!).
I worked half a day at my day job and lost $$$ to be a hothouse flower centerpiece?
I can't wait to make a hundy this Saturday getting ignored. It's so much better than volunteering for it...

The cause? Streaming music available 24-7 365 days a year right from the comfort of your home played exactly as you like it. The Covid shutdown undoubtedly showed live music could be done without.

Music designed to use the least amount of real musicians as possible, and live performances with more dancers and pyrotechnics than musicians isn’t helping much either. My advice, is to work with tracks and hire dancers instead of players. LOL!!

Seriously , I’ve been gigging since the 60’s and feel your frustrations as well. I can still play pretty well even in my 72nd year, but as I’ve posted on this board many times, we are dinosaurs trudging to the tar pits of the human experience. But, I’m going kicking a screaming all the way!!

 

[pepj]

I'd question $300 for 3 hrs tbh. Did I get that right?
Whether i could be bothered to fight an undercut whilst that was the rate in the first place, I don't think so. I'd just sack the gig off for good.
All in all, I'm looking at what is
working here.

 

[Pocket Dave]

This ain't Texas, they don't pay here.
On the flip side, I own a $560,000 3000 square foot house in a lakeside HOA.
Priorities...

Be that as it may, are you at least in agreement to never book there again?

And yeah, I'm with @pepj - I wouldn't be bothered to fight the undercut, at least not after leaving with what they offered. Apparently we're on the same page based on your priorities comment.

My original point being your BL shouldn't have left the gig without challenging and demanding agreed upon pay. I've had to chase it down before as BL, because I owed it to my players. That's part of being a BL.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

Be that as it may, are you at least in agreement to never book there again?

And yeah, I'm with @pepj - I wouldn't be bothered to fight the undercut, at least not after leaving with what they offered. Apparently we're on the same page based on your priorities comment.

My original point being your BL shouldn't have left the gig without challenging and demanding agreed upon pay. I've had to chase it down before as BL, because I owed it to my players. That's part of being a BL.

Yeah never play there again. The concept of small claims is worthless because a couple like this will never honor the judgement, they're probably about 3 months from Chapter 11. They have no business.
I'm probably about a year from retiring from live music. This band seems to be fizzling out, I'll not look for another busy cover band.

 

[pepj]

Years ago ..early 90's, we had a owner try to pay us off at half time. BL said no...we must fulfill our stipulated time for the full fee.
Literally one man and his dog in the bar

We made that sucker pay full... and we got our extra 10 bucks per head.
Jeez.... so embarrassed.

 

[Pocket Dave]

Years ago ..early 90's, we had a owner try to pay us off at half time. BL said no...we must fulfill our stipulated time for the full fee.
Literally one man and his dog in the bar

We made that sucker pay full... and we got our extra 10 bucks per head.
Jeez.... so embarrassed.

I booked a gig at a local place that likes to have bands play for the door. I told the owner we couldn't do that & had to have a guarantee. She agreed to try it on a one-time basis - If it worked, great, she'd have us back; If not, she still had to pay us but we'd shake hands and agree to no more gigs after that.

It didn't and she tried to welsh on the bet.

We weren't leaving until she paid us; When she agreed to write us a check, we told her that'd be fine if it made for better cost accounting, but she'd have to cash the check for us.

She refused.

We refused to leave.

Standoff lasted a while; She even threatened to call the cops and have us arrested for trespassing, We told her good luck with that.

It's was probably 3 or 4 in the morning before we all got out of there with cash payment in full.

------

Another client - a major market radio station for whom we played a corporate event, tried to stiff us on a $2,500 final balance after the fact. I went to their corporate office and camped out in the lobby with a view of both front and back office entrances. I waited until my contact, who'd been ditching my calls for 2 weeks, had to come out of his office for a restroom break. I collected payment in full plus a $37 late fee, took the check immediately to the bank it was drawn on and cashed it.

BL's responsibility is to take care of this kind of nonsense. The guys are going to get their pay; It's not coming out of my pocket; You will pay what you owe.

 

[Five or Six]

Good work Dave! I've done something like that a couple of times. Never got mean or disruptive just waited them out. They can keep their checks to unless agreed upon at the time if hire. Otherwise, cash!

 

[Lowbassman]

If anyone plays without a written contract for all but the simplest local,down-home, corner bar joint where you know the owner personally (and even then)
You are taking a risk and there will be no recourse if you get boned.

Contracts (signed) can be enforced, albeit with the same legal difficulties and BS as anything else, but with a standard form Contract stating performance time and fees, you can't get di**ed around too badly.

 

[iTzPrime]

Last night was a clusterfark. Drove an HOUR to TapIt in Indian Land SC. Bartender/manager was cool, we were doing the full trio show in the back parking lot by the heat pumps. Most of my focus was on my pulled hip flexor muscle and how to get through 3 hours of standing playing and singing.
And it was 95 degrees in the shade!
We began with an audience of 3...

At 8 pm the owners girlfriend texted us and instructed us to end at 8:30 due to lack of audience. Bartender/manager said she'd prorate a check for half price
Drummer and I were pissed!
I confronted BL and let him know we need to fight.
I wrote a long text to Mrs. Owner:
"Dear venue owners,
We have a written (SMS) contract to play 3 hours for $300. Lack of audience was not a discussed factor in said contract. If you do not honor this contract we will have no choice other than to bring you to small claims court in Lancaster county for Treble Damages ($900), court costs, (up to $200), and a full day of lost wages for 3 upper middle class men ($900) for a total $2100 on an original $300 contract..."

Just then the HUSBAND of the ownership team texted BL that we were not authorized to stop playing. He became all mealy mouthed when he realized his WIFE told us to stop!

I never sent my threatening text because the ownership team isn't even on the same page.
They own a failing business and took it out on us.
Once the prorated check clears I'm dropping all kinds of Yelp bombs on Tap It Indian Land SC.

The issue here was that BL becomes a deer in the headlights every time theres friction on a contract job and I told him to man up and learn how to manage properly.
Not sure how much longer we can go forward. We have another new place we are playing July 26. I'm expecting the worst, because that's how it's been going.
Oh, I forgot LoL! Skies were CLEAR all day except right over Tap It where we had 10 minutes of rain right on our gear so we had to break down and set up again lolololol!
I'm getting too old for this shizz...

Ok, so you don't do proper contracts when you do 3 hour gigs. Furthermore you do them for 300$? I am sorry, but that is the rate my niche blackmetal hobby band charges for half an hour of play.

This ain't Texas, they don't pay here.
On the flip side, I own a $560,000 3000 square foot house in a lakeside HOA.
Priorities...

I have written several times, that you can organise your own events etc.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

Ok, so you don't do proper contracts when you do 3 hour gigs. Furthermore you do them for 300$? I am sorry, but that is the rate my niche blackmetal hobby band charges for half an hour of play.


I have written several times, that you can organise your own events etc.

If you're going to be flippant, could you clean up your grammar and syntax? I've waded through 39 pages of flippant. At least use your Anglican roots to your advantage...

 

[iTzPrime]

If you're going to be flippant, could you clean up your grammar and syntax? I've waded through 39 pages of flippant. At least use your Anglican roots to your advantage...

I am from Austria and English is my second language.

 

[pepj]

It generally hasn't been an issue for regular gig venues and if a bar is cheap they can stick to solo's and duo's...and they generally do that anyway.
If I don't recognise the bands or outfits playing there I'm out.... thats not to say they will not build up to be a good venue, but there is a lot of screening to be done. Everyone knows what the top regular rate is for bar work and if the venue can't go to it, then thats decision time. Personally, I'm looking for a good gig not any gig and pass on the desperate cheap gigs.

But yep, the market is older and those people come out less.
AI and copyright...now there is a can of worms..

 

[51PRI]

...
"Dear venue owners,
We have a written (SMS) contract to play 3 hours for $300...

Too cheap.

...And $300????? Are you FKM? They nickel & dimed you out of a crappy $300?....

Too cheap!

This ain't Texas, they don't pay here.
On the flip side, I own a $560,000 3000 square foot house in a lakeside HOA.
Priorities...

So? What does that have to do with this thread? I'll bet you didn't get that expensive nice home by working cheap at your day job, whatever that is. May I suggest that you use the mindset that GOT you that nice home when you quote a price for your band, OR just play in your (probably very nice) garage and let some working band, who asks a decent wage and maybe has there own following and can actually bring the venue some business, get your gigs ?

I'd question $300 for 3 hrs tbh. Did I get that right?
....

Yes, I think so.