What's wrong with 2023 audiences?

[socialleper]

I have some mixed opinions about this.
First, as a patron of a club\bar, if I'm there just to get drinks, I'd rather there not be a band. I'm not going to clap, or even pay attention, because I probably don't want to hear what's being played in the first place. I've only been to one wedding where there was a band, and I didn't care for it. DJs are easier and less of a distraction.
Or, I'm busy talking to the people I'm there with and the music is just in the background.
As a musician, I play shows where the bands are the reason to be there. You have the audience's attention because you are the attraction. Now, that doesn't mean they like you, and you won't always get a big reaction, but you will always get something because people are there to hear music.

 

[BazzaBass]

I've been gigging for about 30 years. I cut my teeth as a super young guy in an oldies band playing doo wop and Motown to upstate NY audiences who danced and clapped and smoked their butts off.
While Boston audiences were more reserved in the oughties and tens, still lots of clapping and dancing.
I've been living in North Carolina for over 8 years. Metro Charlotte. Banking, not that different from Boston.
Lately I've noticed that audiences are going stepford. No clapping. No interaction. No dancing. About half the gigs I'm at are at some level "Wallpaper Gigs"...where the band might as well be a potted plant designed for ambiance.

We are all mostly top players in our 40s and 50s. We play a bit of everything in order to please a wide selection of people from all demographics -rock, pop, disco, country, R&B.
We're not ugly. Sure the singer could use to lose 30 lbs but he wears his soda belly well.
Something happened to society between 1993 and 2023. In 1993 everyone would at least golf clap after a song ended. It's polite.

Last night my trio was asked to play a benefit for leukemia. Someones daughter had actually survived and they were doing a fundraiser. We were all but ignored, they didn't offer us any of the communal food...the family of the girl didn't acknowledge us.
A paid wallpaper gig is one thing. I get a Benjamin to be ignored.
A wallpaper benefit gig is actually unacceptable. I've been honing my singing and playing skills for 40 years! We donated our time, skills, and the use of $10,000 in gear to a good cause.
I'm disgusted. I'm sure I'm just an old man yelling at clouds- but I think I'm done playing benefits unless there's concessions made for the band (FOOD FOOD FOOD!).
I worked half a day at my day job and lost $$$ to be a hothouse flower centerpiece?
I can't wait to make a hundy this Saturday getting ignored. It's so much better than volunteering for it...

Musicians and Sports are all competing for the mighty dollar. People want to be entertained and vote with their feet. If a sports team is not clapped and cheered it’s because they are not very good.

 

[Bass Viking]

Don't Stop Believin' classic rock 'burb venues.

LOL! There is actually a name for these places.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

I have some mixed opinions about this.
First, as a patron of a club\bar, if I'm there just to get drinks, I'd rather there not be a band. I'm not going to clap, or even pay attention, because I probably don't want to hear what's being played in the first place. I've only been to one wedding where there was a band, and I didn't care for it. DJs are easier and less of a distraction.
Or, I'm busy talking to the people I'm there with and the music is just in the background.
As a musician, I play shows where the bands are the reason to be there. You have the audience's attention because you are the attraction. Now, that doesn't mean they like you, and you won't always get a big reaction, but you will always get something because people are there to hear music.

I should hope they pay attention, you've created several threads stating you pay to play. "How are we supposed to afford this?".
You pay for that attention, mate.

 

[Pocket Dave]

LOL! There is actually a name for these places.

Apparently there is now.

Actually, I stole the don't-stop-believin'-band moniker from TB.

 

[pepj]

I'm referring to the slow death of live music on a local level based on the vast number of other entertainment options that do not require leaving the house. Yes, there are isolated markets where it's still somewhat thriving, but those are now the exception, not the norm.

Yep, plus typical live music crowds are getting older.
However, places can just adapt and the best ones do and can thrive because they create a vibe and pleasant place to go.

But, sure, way too many just put music on and expect to work...
You wouldn't create a restaurant without appeal and survive, so events rather than band in corner are the better gigs here.
If a venue expects the band to bring everything..some can do that... then that venue really havent thought it through well at all.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

Yep, plus typical live music crowds are getting older.
However, places can just adapt and the best ones do and can thrive because they create a vibe and pleasant place to go.

But, sure, way too many just put music on and expect to work...
You wouldn't create a restaurant without appeal and survive, so events rather than band in corner are the better gigs here.
If a venue expects the band to bring everything..some can do that... then that venue really havent thought it through well at all.

Well put.
A lot of the basis of this thread revolves around the region i live in, The Piedmont of North Carolina. Wouldn't apply to NY, L.A., Vegas. The music scene has apparently been dead here since the turn of the century (the South End had a vibrant Indy scene).
I have twins entering the best Catholic high school this fall, and 27 years left on my mortgage. We're entrenched in this banking metro at least until our kids are in some dorm based college in 5 years.
I'd be perfectly happy playing sh!tkicking music in roadhouses at that juncture, when we can SELL this high priced high taxes HOA lakeside community home and roll our equity into a smaller house an hour south in SC just out of reach of the Charlotte metropolitan area.
I don't see any kind of homegrown music scene sprouting up here at any time in the future, and I'm entering retirement age so one of those busy metros is also not on the radar.
Beach Music anyone?

 

[pepj]

Yep. Murtle Beach is cool.

I do think people need to be led to the water or educated wrt gigs because some bookers have some odd ideas.
Currently, I'm seeing more singalong band gigs, which can be great but also will fall very flat if the crowd is cold and the band doesnt or cant warm them up.
Still, its the summer outdoor season so make hay while the suns shines.

We expect to travel an hr one way but it better not be a shitehole.

 

[Pacman]

I've deleted a very disrespectful post, and you will notice if you quoted it that your post has been deleted as well.

Thank you for not feeding the trolls

 

[socialleper]

I should hope they pay attention, you've created several threads stating you pay to play. "How are we supposed to afford this?".
You pay for that attention, mate.

Or play for free. But yes, if you want to play your music, you aren't getting paid for it.
The sad irony is that people playing background music and getting ignored get paid to do it.
There is no god.

 

[Geddyfleaharris]

What's different now:

1. Loud is no longer the rule in local live music - People come out to enjoy live music. They also want to be able to socialize, maybe even have a conversation. Adapt or die.
2. Stagnant pay scale - The $100/player thing has been improving for the low-pay rooms, though not on pace with inflation. Still, there are significantly more upper-level rooms that pay a significantly better scale than there was the last time pay scales were reasonable in the early '90s.
3. Just playing music well does not guarantee you're going to draw or retain crowds. I've never seen this more true than now, though TBH, those in the '70s-'80s that were at the top of the local and regional-band food chain could both play and entertain well.

Your three points are 100% accurate for my area. I started playing clubs and travelling back in the early '80s. Back then, when a band rolled into a rock bar, you were bringing a full P.A., full lights and we had two techs working with us. People came out to see the bands. Now your point number 1 is where things are at. P.A. is a couple of speakers on a stick and it better not be loud! Lights? Just a couple for literally light. Not a "light show."

Currently, there are still a couple of clubs that supply a full P.A, lights, a tech and the music is the focus. They are the exception not the norm. But there are still lots of places to play on a scaled down level. Add in summer festivals, fairs, etc. and good bands can still play to good crowds.

 

[FullumMusic]

Technology changed, Cinema was created, culture changed with it, and Vaudeville actors complained nobody wants Vaudeville shows anymore. They faded away. Vaudevillians Buster Keaton and the Marx Brothers, et al, adapted to the new paradigm and thrived.

Technology changed, the Internet/apps/phones/etc is what it is now, culture changed with it, and musicians who want to play shows like it's still the 90s, 80s, and 70s complain that nobody wants shows the same way they did 30-50 years ago. Others embrace the new paradigm and thrive.

30-50 years from now, technology and culture will change, and musicians still trying to engage with audiences the ways that worked today will complain audiences don't engage with music anymore. Others will adapt and engage with audiences in the new ways.

 

[KenSmithFan]

Last night my trio was asked to play a benefit for leukemia.

THIS. It's not about you or your band. It's a fund raiser.

Not offering food or thanking you was pretty low class, but the audience owes you nothing.

 

[Guitalia]

A DJ having success playing to 2000 people is no consolation to a grandad band trying to get 20somethings to appreciate their tired versions of Mustang Sally and Wagon Wheel.

If you had looked up Thundercat, you'd have learned that he's not a DJ.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

THIS. It's not about you or your band. It's a fund raiser.

Not offering food or thanking you was pretty low class, but the audience owes you nothing.

I just wanted a Pepsi...

 

[groovepump]

DFW isn't exactly an isolated market. In the '70s, there were about a dozen live music haunts in Dallas, another half dozen in Fort Worth. They were well-attended, rock, blues rock venues, catering to mostly middle and upper middle class "boomers" in their teens and 20's.

Dallas rocked with its white, boomer-kid monoculture.

In 2024 there are 35 I'm aware of in Dallas county alone, probably about twice that counting venues outside of my circle. This doesn't even take into account solo and duo venues, or Don't Stop Believin' classic rock 'burb venues.

These are moderate-to-well-attended venues providing music ranging from blues to country to urban to old-time swing/jazz/blues (the swing place is in a historic urban district packed with young hipsters no less). These places don't have competing big-screen sports.

Sure, we saw the first-generation rock bars die when cable TV hit, and we saw some closings in the '90s when the internet started to become a thing. But most of these bars were still doing the same old same old without adjustments, while their clientele got married, had kids and aged out.

To be fair, we've had a number of venues shutter, but more open; I've been hearing about the death of live music for 40+ years, and in our market there've been ebbs and flows, but it's still going strong across multiple age levels.

What's different now:

1. Loud is no longer the rule in local live music - People come out to enjoy live music. They also want to be able to socialize, maybe even have a conversation. Adapt or die.
2. Stagnant pay scale - The $100/player thing has been improving for the low-pay rooms, though not on pace with inflation. Still, there are significantly more upper-level rooms that pay a significantly better scale than there was the last time pay scales were reasonable in the early '90s.
3. Just playing music well does not guarantee you're going to draw or retain crowds. I've never seen this more true than now, though TBH, those in the '70s-'80s that were at the top of the local and regional-band food chain could both play and entertain well.

I agree, especially with your items 1 and 3. Salient observations.

 

[Low End Scum]

I agree, especially with your items 1 and 3. Salient observations.

Dave's experience in DFW is exceptionally similar to mine and points 1 and 3 nail it. The rules have certainly changed and many times my special lady and friends will opt for a place we can chat over a local show. To point 3, entertaining above just playing well has gone beyond being critical in my opinion.

Gigging musicians are competing with so much more than we used to. It's not just the other shows around town, or the movies, or a local dance. We're competing against the cost of going to a show which has gotten higher with inflation. Competing against streaming services and everyone having instantaneous entertainment 24/7 in their pockets. I've been fine with all that but I just can't do the constant self promotion and viral chasing on social media

 

[51PRI]

If you had looked up Thundercat, you'd have learned that he's not a DJ.

I've seen him before, and my point remains the same.

 

[Pocket Dave]

I've deleted a very disrespectful post, and you will notice if you quoted it that your post has been deleted as well.

Thank you for not feeding the trolls

Says a lot about a man who admits to this kind of thing and isn't afraid to address and fix it. Respect.

 

[FullumMusic]

A DJ having success playing to 2000 people is no consolation to a grandad band trying to get 20somethings to appreciate their tired versions of Mustang Sally and Wagon Wheel.

If the grandad band is trying to get 20-somethings to appreciate their tired version of Mustang Sally and Wagon Wheel, they're kinda on a fool's errand, no?

Would be the same as 20-somethings going to the local American Legion's Senior Night looking for the hottest new electronic music producer/Dj; or going to McDonalds looking for pan seared sea scallops topped with foie gras, and caviar; or going to a Ferrari dealer looking for an affordable, reliable, fuel efficient family car.

They don't need consolation. They need to re-assess their business plan or mission statement or objectives.