What's wrong with 2023 audiences?

[Gluvhand]

Very true. Pop music doesn't drive the culture like it used to. If you pulled random people off the street and asked them to name or identify a Beyonce or Taylor Swift song, most of them couldn't do it. And those are the 2 biggest artists I can think of. There's very little point in cover bands trying to play that type of material unless they're a tribute to that artist.

I think you're very wrong. The same age group that was pop music savvy when we, most of us here, were younger and were responsible for sales is the same age group now. You don't get Beyonce or Taylor Swift BIG without that. Having a 21 year old daughter I can tell you first hand that Swift and Beyonce, and a handful of others, absolutely drive culture. Most of those young people just don't care to hear weak versions or our old ass takes on those songs. Or not.

 

[friskinator]

I think you're very wrong. The same age group that was pop music savvy when we, most of us here, were younger and were responsible for sales is the same age group now. You don't get Beyonce or Taylor Swift BIG without that. Having a 21 year old daughter I can tell you first hand that Swift and Beyonce, and a handful of others, absolutely drive culture. Most of those young people just don't care to hear weak versions or our old ass takes on those songs. Or not.

By "drive culture," I mean songs that are known by almost everyone, regardless of demographic. Swift and Beyonce definitely drive youth culture, but not culture as a whole.

 

[Low End Scum]

Every one of the late night shows has a killer live band and feature live music almost every night and I don't think we've been "trained" by anybody regarding music. Decent cover bands and their fan bases are aging out. Original music in bars and clubs has always been a hard sell.

Yeah the whole "trained" thing comes off as just wildly out of touch. Trained to accept what? Music that isn't the same as it was 40 years ago ergo making it crap? I'd bet money that there was the same lamentations about the degradation of music (especially rock and pop music) when new wave, big synth sounds, and computers came on the scene in the 80's. Shortly after that comment someones lamenting that, instead of being trained to accept crap, young people have been trained to also expect perfection because of auto tune. Seems like nobody knows what's wrong with 2023 audiences but are all totally convinced it's SOMETHING to do with those darn whippersnappers.

To the point about TV though, the young'ns aren't going to MTV or television in general for their music fix, and a lot of the time not the radio either. I'm 30 this year. Have siblings as young as 17 and as old as 44 (long story). Going to a loud bar to hear the same stuff that you can hear in a grocery store (or on a generic playlist from spotify) on a Friday night is not a great proposition to them, especially if there is a cover charge. Context is also a huge deal. When my rock band was doin classics on a random Thursday, Friday or Saturday the median age group was always over 40. The time we did it after a college football game, it wasn't over 25 and they loved it.

By "drive culture," I mean songs that are known by almost everyone, regardless of demographic. Swift and Beyonce definitely drive youth culture, but not culture as a whole.

I don't mean this to be snarky but who did drive culture then? There was already talk earlier in the thread about one TB'er growing up hating their dads WW2 big band stuff and their parents being entirely uninterested in the Beatles and other 60's bands. I'm not sure I can think of a band so huge that my grandmother and I would both have been into them to the point that it was a part of culture. Not sure I can think of a band my grandparents liked that my WW2 vet or straight laced FBI great grandparents would've been interested in at all either.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

OP update:
I've been observing EVERYTHING in and around my band for months now, I think I'm near a breakthrough (or a complete mental breakdown lol!).
Most gigs are still cricket fest, I'm beginning to see that our BAND is the common denominator.
Plusses:
Our IEM system has lowered our volume considerably. Im also using a 12" combo which lowers stage and house volume.
BL is listening to drummer and I. We're seeking solutions.
Minuses: audience participation is still at 2023 levels, meaning close to zilch.

Friday, BL and I had a duo outing in an Irish pub in a wealthy suburb. People began clearing out almost immediately. Wasn't volume, we were using acoustic instruments through half our modest PA set at volume 2.
Suddenly the BL started to take it personally. "ARE Y'ALL HAVING A GOOD TIME? WELL, ARE YA?".
I pulled an aside and asked him to tone it down, I've never seen berating an audience actually work.

We get a ton of crowd participation from "Family Tradition" no matter where we are (cause it's huge in the South).
All we need is 30 more songs JUST LIKE FAMILY TRADITION! Lol.

Also, I think the drummer created a monster last year. He asked the BL to create a happy frontman act since he is, in essence, the frontman. Previous to that, I maintained all the banter (and dad jokes) between songs.
I'm likeable. BL is not! BL has created this urban accent persona whom he is not and doesn't win hearts and minds with a fake African American DJ accent (he's lilly white from rural Georgia).
The crux is, BL is driving crowds away.
47 years old, 40 lbs overweight, long bald hair and a disingenuous personality.
Drummer and I are brainstorming to see if we can reverse this Trainwreck.

Understand, crowds are still generally anemic and zombie-like in Metro Charlotte these days but I know we can do better.

Fire the BL?

 

[SLO Surfer]

Meanwhile, my 9-piece brass band continues to grow our audience and sell out shows. We recently sold out a 400-person venue with less than 24-hours planning/notice;

 

[Lance Bunyon]

Meanwhile, my 9-piece brass band continues to grow our audience and sell out shows. We recently sold out a 400-person venue with less than 24-hours planning/notice;View attachment 5438726 View attachment 5438732

Good for you?

 

[friskinator]

Meanwhile, my 9-piece brass band continues to grow our audience and sell out shows. We recently sold out a 400-person venue with less than 24-hours planning/notice;View attachment 5438726 View attachment 5438732

Lots of questions here. Were you the only band on the bill? Was this part of an event? And to clarify, your band (and only your band) sold this room out with the show being announced the day before?

 

[MynameisMe]

Meanwhile, my 9-piece brass band continues to grow our audience and sell out shows. We recently sold out a 400-person venue with less than 24-hours planning/notice;View attachment 5438726 View attachment 5438732

Humble brag.

 

[MynameisMe]

OP update:
I've been observing EVERYTHING in and around my band for months now, I think I'm near a breakthrough (or a complete mental breakdown lol!).
Most gigs are still cricket fest, I'm beginning to see that our BAND is the common denominator.
Plusses:
Our IEM system has lowered our volume considerably. Im also using a 12" combo which lowers stage and house volume.
BL is listening to drummer and I. We're seeking solutions.
Minuses: audience participation is still at 2023 levels, meaning close to zilch.

Friday, BL and I had a duo outing in an Irish pub in a wealthy suburb. People began clearing out almost immediately. Wasn't volume, we were using acoustic instruments through half our modest PA set at volume 2.
Suddenly the BL started to take it personally. "ARE Y'ALL HAVING A GOOD TIME? WELL, ARE YA?".
I pulled an aside and asked him to tone it down, I've never seen berating an audience actually work.

We get a ton of crowd participation from "Family Tradition" no matter where we are (cause it's huge in the South).
All we need is 30 more songs JUST LIKE FAMILY TRADITION! Lol.

Also, I think the drummer created a monster last year. He asked the BL to create a happy frontman act since he is, in essence, the frontman. Previous to that, I maintained all the banter (and dad jokes) between songs.
I'm likeable. BL is not! BL has created this urban accent persona whom he is not and doesn't win hearts and minds with a fake African American DJ accent (he's lilly white from rural Georgia).
The crux is, BL is driving crowds away.
47 years old, 40 lbs overweight, long bald hair and a disingenuous personality.
Drummer and I are brainstorming to see if we can reverse this Trainwreck.

Understand, crowds are still generally anemic and zombie-like in Metro Charlotte these days but I know we can do better.

Fire the BL?

What other choice do you have? Why would you want to continue like this?

 

[SLO Surfer]

Lots of questions here. Were you the only band on the bill? Was this part of an event? And to clarify, your band (and only your band) sold this room out with the show being announced the day before?

We were the only band on the bill.
No event, just a show we put on ourselves at a nice venue that had nothing going on that night. (It was our second time playing there, the 1st time was years ago for some multi-band event)
Yes, just our band sold out this show and advertised it ourselves. Venue didn’t market it at all.
Plus we just raised our ticket prices from $10 to $20. We offer presale and VIP tickets for more $.

Somewhere earlier in this thread I posted everything our band does, both on and off stage, to successfully build our fanbase and put on good shows. We keep growing. We are still reading music on stage and playing to a click track.

 

[pepj]

OP update:
I've been observing EVERYTHING in and around my band for months now, I think I'm near a breakthrough (or a complete mental breakdown lol!).
Most gigs are still cricket fest, I'm beginning to see that our BAND is the common denominator.
Plusses:
Our IEM system has lowered our volume considerably. Im also using a 12" combo which lowers stage and house volume.
BL is listening to drummer and I. We're seeking solutions.
Minuses: audience participation is still at 2023 levels, meaning close to zilch.

Friday, BL and I had a duo outing in an Irish pub in a wealthy suburb. People began clearing out almost immediately. Wasn't volume, we were using acoustic instruments through half our modest PA set at volume 2.
Suddenly the BL started to take it personally. "ARE Y'ALL HAVING A GOOD TIME? WELL, ARE YA?".
I pulled an aside and asked him to tone it down, I've never seen berating an audience actually work.

We get a ton of crowd participation from "Family Tradition" no matter where we are (cause it's huge in the South).
All we need is 30 more songs JUST LIKE FAMILY TRADITION! Lol.

Also, I think the drummer created a monster last year. He asked the BL to create a happy frontman act since he is, in essence, the frontman. Previous to that, I maintained all the banter (and dad jokes) between songs.
I'm likeable. BL is not! BL has created this urban accent persona whom he is not and doesn't win hearts and minds with a fake African American DJ accent (he's lilly white from rural Georgia).
The crux is, BL is driving crowds away.
47 years old, 40 lbs overweight, long bald hair and a disingenuous personality.
Drummer and I are brainstorming to see if we can reverse this Trainwreck.

Understand, crowds are still generally anemic and zombie-like in Metro Charlotte these days but I know we can do better.

Fire the BL?

Well, yep, if you think he is the issue.
I have same sort of issue. Musically the band is fine but I cant recall us getting too many repeats booking even though the bookers say they are pleased.
I think its the general demeanor of the band...too many charts, gtr can be a moody arse etc.
The singer is trying to get his song books onto ipad but because they have always worked..and pick up gigs, they also put nothing into making the gig an event. No SM or very little, no buzz.
When we nail it, we nail it, but getting feedback is lacking and they are so hard to get gigs for.
It's a mystery... and so very draining.

Crowds are up for a good gig here but we aren't up for it 4 out of 5. Then the 5th gig is a banger and the whole thing starts again. So, yep, I'm out and not chasing any gigs.

The way to do it here, is just get a loud frontman, play the standard singalongs and join the same club as everyone else.

 

[Mastermold]

OP update:
I've been observing EVERYTHING in and around my band for months now, I think I'm near a breakthrough (or a complete mental breakdown lol!).
Most gigs are still cricket fest, I'm beginning to see that our BAND is the common denominator.
Plusses:
Our IEM system has lowered our volume considerably. Im also using a 12" combo which lowers stage and house volume.
BL is listening to drummer and I. We're seeking solutions.
Minuses: audience participation is still at 2023 levels, meaning close to zilch.

Friday, BL and I had a duo outing in an Irish pub in a wealthy suburb. People began clearing out almost immediately. Wasn't volume, we were using acoustic instruments through half our modest PA set at volume 2.
Suddenly the BL started to take it personally. "ARE Y'ALL HAVING A GOOD TIME? WELL, ARE YA?".
I pulled an aside and asked him to tone it down, I've never seen berating an audience actually work.

We get a ton of crowd participation from "Family Tradition" no matter where we are (cause it's huge in the South).
All we need is 30 more songs JUST LIKE FAMILY TRADITION! Lol.

Also, I think the drummer created a monster last year. He asked the BL to create a happy frontman act since he is, in essence, the frontman. Previous to that, I maintained all the banter (and dad jokes) between songs.
I'm likeable. BL is not! BL has created this urban accent persona whom he is not and doesn't win hearts and minds with a fake African American DJ accent (he's lilly white from rural Georgia).
The crux is, BL is driving crowds away.
47 years old, 40 lbs overweight, long bald hair and a disingenuous personality.
Drummer and I are brainstorming to see if we can reverse this Trainwreck.

Understand, crowds are still generally anemic and zombie-like in Metro Charlotte these days but I know we can do better.

Fire the BL?

If it was me I’d move on. Doesn’t seem fun at all. I’d start over with something fresh—sounds like a 9-piece brass band is the way to go!

 

[Pocket Dave]

OP update:
I've been observing EVERYTHING in and around my band for months now, I think I'm near a breakthrough (or a complete mental breakdown lol!).
Most gigs are still cricket fest, I'm beginning to see that our BAND is the common denominator.
Plusses:
Our IEM system has lowered our volume considerably. Im also using a 12" combo which lowers stage and house volume.
BL is listening to drummer and I. We're seeking solutions.
Minuses: audience participation is still at 2023 levels, meaning close to zilch.

Friday, BL and I had a duo outing in an Irish pub in a wealthy suburb. People began clearing out almost immediately. Wasn't volume, we were using acoustic instruments through half our modest PA set at volume 2.
Suddenly the BL started to take it personally. "ARE Y'ALL HAVING A GOOD TIME? WELL, ARE YA?".
I pulled an aside and asked him to tone it down, I've never seen berating an audience actually work.

We get a ton of crowd participation from "Family Tradition" no matter where we are (cause it's huge in the South).
All we need is 30 more songs JUST LIKE FAMILY TRADITION! Lol.

Also, I think the drummer created a monster last year. He asked the BL to create a happy frontman act since he is, in essence, the frontman. Previous to that, I maintained all the banter (and dad jokes) between songs.
I'm likeable. BL is not! BL has created this urban accent persona whom he is not and doesn't win hearts and minds with a fake African American DJ accent (he's lilly white from rural Georgia).
The crux is, BL is driving crowds away.
47 years old, 40 lbs overweight, long bald hair and a disingenuous personality.
Drummer and I are brainstorming to see if we can reverse this Trainwreck.

Understand, crowds are still generally anemic and zombie-like in Metro Charlotte these days but I know we can do better.

Fire the BL?

Doesn't sound like the situation's going to fix itself, so yeah, fire the BL.

His stage persona doesn't sound like it's based on anything honest or accepting - the result sounds pretty cringeworthy.

And berating the audience is a sign of letting fear/resentment inform his outlook; That's going to continue to block him from being open to the moment, which is needed to engage an audience.

A good, engaging frontman needs to be much more comfortable in his own shoes than that.

Funny thing - his physical attributes sound like a BL I used to work for who was able to use it as part of his schtick and successfully engage the audience.

Successfully fronting a band is a life-view informed skill. It's not for everyone; Sounds like your guy would need to completely change his life view to do it successfully.

How likely is that.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

Doesn't sound like the situation's going to fix itself, so yeah, fire the BL.

His stage persona doesn't sound like it's based on anything honest or accepting - the result sounds pretty cringeworthy.

And berating the audience is a sign of letting fear/resentment inform his outlook; That's going to continue to block him from being open to the moment, which is needed to engage an audience.

A good, engaging frontman needs to be much more comfortable in his own shoes than that.

Funny thing - his physical attributes sound like a BL I used to work for who was able to use it as part of his schtick and successfully engage the audience.

Successfully fronting a band is a life-view informed skill. It's not for everyone; Sounds like your guy would need to completely change his life view to do it successfully.

How likely is that.

Or, he could just shut up and play his guitar and let me work the audience again...

 

[Lance Bunyon]

What other choice do you have? Why would you want to continue like this?

I need the money. My dayjob professional life history reads a lot like the Dickens novel "David Copperfield"...

 

[r_bnks]

What's wrong with 2023 audiences?
They exist

 

[brianrost]

It’s 2024 now, things are different

 

[J Wilson]

There's many reasons a band, a venue, and an audience either go wild or sit on their hands.

For me personally (at 70), and living here in Nashville with all kinds of venues for all kinds of music (believe me, like Austin, it's not only country music), that the world I came from, that music and the way we did things is past.
Times and the generations have rolled over, as they have and always will. Most people my age aren't going to clubs several nights a week as they once did, and today, I'm playing their parents' or even grandparents' music to 20-somethings if I were still out there. I'd be useless playing covers of today's music, and even here with many songwriters (and TONS of other musicians), there are loads of original music situations, often songwriters, more often than not, played for 'exposure'. Hard to go to Publix with a wallet full of 'exposure'. And while I played a lot of rough houses and saw plenty fights, I didn't have to worry about guns or if the bartender had Narcan behind the bar, or even the crazy (and deserved) DWI penalties or houses being busted for 'over serving' a customer.

The world I worked is gone, save for the occasional Oldies Cruise or some Eagles Lodge or VFW with folks my age. This makes me feel even older (I'm just waiting for the Stones or McCartney to be sponsored by Depends or Viagra), and I quit trying to get in on them.

It's just over. I made peace with it, play what I want around the house, and usually succeed at not being the Get Off My Musical Lawn guy about it.

 

[buldog5151bass]

OP update:
I've been observing EVERYTHING in and around my band for months now, I think I'm near a breakthrough (or a complete mental breakdown lol!).
Most gigs are still cricket fest, I'm beginning to see that our BAND is the common denominator.
Plusses:
Our IEM system has lowered our volume considerably. Im also using a 12" combo which lowers stage and house volume.
BL is listening to drummer and I. We're seeking solutions.
Minuses: audience participation is still at 2023 levels, meaning close to zilch.

Friday, BL and I had a duo outing in an Irish pub in a wealthy suburb. People began clearing out almost immediately. Wasn't volume, we were using acoustic instruments through half our modest PA set at volume 2.
Suddenly the BL started to take it personally. "ARE Y'ALL HAVING A GOOD TIME? WELL, ARE YA?".
I pulled an aside and asked him to tone it down, I've never seen berating an audience actually work.

We get a ton of crowd participation from "Family Tradition" no matter where we are (cause it's huge in the South).
All we need is 30 more songs JUST LIKE FAMILY TRADITION! Lol.

Also, I think the drummer created a monster last year. He asked the BL to create a happy frontman act since he is, in essence, the frontman. Previous to that, I maintained all the banter (and dad jokes) between songs.
I'm likeable. BL is not! BL has created this urban accent persona whom he is not and doesn't win hearts and minds with a fake African American DJ accent (he's lilly white from rural Georgia).
The crux is, BL is driving crowds away.
47 years old, 40 lbs overweight, long bald hair and a disingenuous personality.
Drummer and I are brainstorming to see if we can reverse this Trainwreck.

Understand, crowds are still generally anemic and zombie-like in Metro Charlotte these days but I know we can do better.

Fire the BL?

Why not just sit down with BL over a beer or coffee (not at a rehearsalor gig)? Calmly spell out your concerns (withspecific examples), and offer your solutions.

He should understand that he is not the best host, and frankly, it sounds like he doesn't enjoy doing it.

 

[friskinator]

There's many reasons a band, a venue, and an audience either go wild or sit on their hands.

For me personally (at 70), and living here in Nashville with all kinds of venues for all kinds of music (believe me, like Austin, it's not only country music), that the world I came from, that music and the way we did things is past.
Times and the generations have rolled over, as they have and always will. Most people my age aren't going to clubs several nights a week as they once did, and today, I'm playing their parents' or even grandparents' music to 20-somethings if I were still out there. I'd be useless playing covers of today's music, and even here with many songwriters (and TONS of other musicians), there are loads of original music situations, often songwriters, more often than not, played for 'exposure'. Hard to go to Publix with a wallet full of 'exposure'.

The world I worked is gone, save for the occasional Oldies Cruise or some Eagles Lodge or VFW with folks my age. This makes me feel even older (I'm just waiting for the Stones or McCartney to be sponsored by Depends or Viagra), and I quit trying to get in on them.

It's just over. I made peace with it, play what I want around the house, and usually succeed at not being the Get Off My Musical Lawn guy about it.

I'll be 50 this summer, and this is close to how I feel. Only I don't live in a place like Nashville/Austin.

Oh, and the new Stones tour is sponsored by AARP.