What's wrong with 2023 audiences?

[micguy]

Audience reactions haven't been programmed out of existence - it's situational. When I was a kid, nobody applauded for anything in church. Now, if you play a great set, they applaud like crazy.

If you aren't getting the reactions you once did, I'd suggest going to the places you play on nights when you aren't playing there. If the audiences react to other bands....

You say that you aren't thrilled to be going to play for audiences that don't react. Maybe it's begun to show?

 

[51PRI]

Meanwhile, my 9-piece brass band continues to grow our audience and sell out shows. We recently sold out a 400-person venue with less than 24-hours planning/notice;View attachment 5438726 View attachment 5438732

Well, yeah, but you're got Jason Momoa on sax!

And what's the name of your band...anything on Youtube?

 

[Pocket Dave]

It's definitely different now than it used to be.

The game's changed; We made our adjustments at the half - now we gotta adjust again for the 4th quarter????

Yeah. We do.

For one thing, there's a whole virtual world competing against us at all age ranges, though it's got its weaknesses; The virtual world can't provide up-close, face to face dynamic engagement and interaction.

If we understand that it's all about the crowd, not the band, while still playing our asses off; If we can master that dynamic engagement honestly, we can still run up the score before the final buzzer.

 

[BassGuyFL]

Meanwhile, my 9-piece brass band continues to grow our audience and sell out shows. We recently sold out a 400-person venue with less than 24-hours planning/notice;View attachment 5438726 View attachment 5438732

Wow man I can barely deal with one horn player

 

[Ostie]

Honestly, if it wasn’t for audiences in my own age bracket, we wouldn’t have an audience. I have a lot of friends and neighbors, sone of whom have been following my musical exploits for 45 years. If I was smart I would go solo and play acoustic guitar rock from the 90s. Then I would take home the entire check and play when I wanted to, and avoid the venues that want to offer entertainment and not have to pay for it.

 

[friskinator]

It's definitely different now than it used to be.

The game's changed; We made our adjustments at the half - now we gotta adjust again for the 4th quarter????

Yeah. We do.

For one thing, there's a whole virtual world competing against us at all age ranges, though it's got its weaknesses; The virtual world can't provide up-close, face to face dynamic engagement and interaction.

If we understand that it's all about the crowd, not the band, while still playing our asses off; If we can master that dynamic engagement honestly, we can still run up the score before the final buzzer.

What happens when the majority of the public doesn’t care about dynamic, face to face engagement? That’s where we’re headed.

 

[SLO Surfer]

Well, yeah, but you're got Jason Momoa on sax!

And what's the name of your band...anything on Youtube?

lol that Bari Sax player IS huge and handsome. Band name is Brass Mash. We have tons of stuff up on YouTube and all the social medias. Our bandleader records a multitrack of every show along with footage from 5-10 GoPro cameras. So he gathers and puts out lots of content. Here’s a song from that last-minute show I posted a picture of earlier. Crowd goes crazy jumping at the end. We’re not that great of a band, we just try to put on a “show.” (I honestly don’t know what half the songs we play are, including this one.)

Wow man I can barely deal with one horn player

lol! There’s been a lot of horn players to come through this band in its 8-year history. They’ve all been good people, fortunately.


I think my reason for posting my experiences in this discussion is to address the premise of the thread’s title, and I think nothing’s wrong with audiences in 2023-24. I just saw Thundercat perform at an electronica/house music/DJ festival and the two thousand kids there to see DJs like “Sidepiece” went crazy for him. The audience will respond to what you put out and how you put it out there.

 

[51PRI]

... I just saw Thundercat perform at an electronica/house music/DJ festival and the two thousand kids there to see DJs like “Sidepiece” went crazy for him. The audience will respond to what you put out and how you put it out there.

A DJ having success playing to 2000 people is no consolation to a grandad band trying to get 20somethings to appreciate their tired versions of Mustang Sally and Wagon Wheel.

 

[Pocket Dave]

A DJ having success playing to 2000 people is no consolation to a grandad band trying to get 20somethings to appreciate their tired versions of Mustang Sally and Wagon Wheel.

Yep. "Tired versions" being key.

Unfortunately, that seems to be a thing with a few of the local dad and grandad bands.

 

[Geddyfleaharris]

lol that Bari Sax player IS huge and handsome. Band name is Brass Mash. We have tons of stuff up on YouTube and all the social medias. Our bandleader records a multitrack of every show along with footage from 5-10 GoPro cameras. So he gathers and puts out lots of content. Here’s a song from that last-minute show I posted a picture of earlier. Crowd goes crazy jumping at the end. We’re not that great of a band, we just try to put on a “show.” (I honestly don’t know what half the songs we play are, including this one.)

lol! There’s been a lot of horn players to come through this band in its 8-year history. They’ve all been good people, fortunately.


I think my reason for posting my experiences in this discussion is to address the premise of the thread’s title, and I think nothing’s wrong with audiences in 2023-24. I just saw Thundercat perform at an electronica/house music/DJ festival and the two thousand kids there to see DJs like “Sidepiece” went crazy for him. The audience will respond to what you put out and how you put it out there.

That's really cool. I was listening going..... I know this. Then finally just before the dramatic breakdown the Piece of Mind chorus comes to me. "People living in competition...." Very cool. What else is part of this mash-up? Seems like there are quite a few songs or else the horns are fooling my ears.

 

[51PRI]

lol that Bari Sax player IS huge and handsome. Band name is Brass Mash. We have tons of stuff up on YouTube and all the social medias. Our bandleader records a multitrack of every show along with footage from 5-10 GoPro cameras. So he gathers and puts out lots of content. Here’s a song from that last-minute show I posted a picture of earlier. Crowd goes crazy jumping at the end. We’re not that great of a band, we just try to put on a “show.” (I honestly don’t know what half the songs we play are, including this one.)

lol! There’s been a lot of horn players to come through this band in its 8-year history. They’ve all been good people, fortunately.


I think my reason for posting my experiences in this discussion is to address the premise of the thread’s title, and I think nothing’s wrong with audiences in 2023-24. I just saw Thundercat perform at an electronica/house music/DJ festival and the two thousand kids there to see DJs like “Sidepiece” went crazy for him. The audience will respond to what you put out and how you put it out there.

I believe I've seen you guys live. If so, you are very good and I had a great time. Do you play "Doo Wop" by Lauren Hill?

 

[SLO Surfer]

What else is part of this mash-up? Seems like there are quite a few songs or else the horns are fooling my ears.

I don’t know all the songs we play as I’m pretty out of touch with pop music from 2000-present. Every song we do is really a mash up of 3-5 (or more) different songs, many of which I’m not familiar with other than the notes I’ve learned on the page. Although, sometimes I do some listening research to make sure I’m copping the right vibe.

I believe I've seen you guys live. If so, you are very good and I had a great time. Do you play "Doo Wop" by Lauren Hill?

I don’t think we do that song. Maybe they did it in the past before I replaced their tuba player three years ago? We don’t really play outside of California’s central coast, so that might tell you if it was us or not.

 

[Pocket Dave]

What happens when the majority of the public doesn’t care about dynamic, face to face engagement? That’s where we’re headed.

Sorry to hear that's your experience these days.

Not trying to humble-brag; We're doing ok with it. Luck-of-the-draw? I don't think so.

A local bar-owner gives me first-crack at a once-a-month Friday where we play an hour and a quarter show set, followed by hosting a jam. I hire a drummer and a "special guest" - usually a local heavy hitter on guitar and vocals who knows how to play to the room and honestly engage the crowd.

Drummer and I woodshed his set and play it as if we've been playing together for years. Bar ring is profitable; We also do well with the band tip jar. This is an in-town dive bar where competition is fierce. Judging from the outside, it looks like a dodgy place in a dodgy neighborhood, but it's actually earned a rep for having a good, friendly vibe inside.

There's another venue in town; a top-level listening room where I sometimes do sideman work, that charges cover and packs 'em in on weekends. Owner is a high-skills musician who's good at choosing bands that are tops in their craft when it comes to both talent and engaging the room.

Outside of town in the far 'burbs and far-outlying rural areas, there're venues my regular band plays where there's been a steady crowd, where we've insured profitable nights at the bars.

These are perfect storm venues where you've got a culture that still likes to go out on Fri/Sat night vs staying home watching NBA/MLB/NHL on TV (not me, I'm DVRing the games during gigs LOL!) mixed with a home-spun, story-telling, engaging BL with a great voice and extremely charismatic persona. You can't help but be drawn in.

Will this change? Yeah/probably; It always has. But for now I'm blessed. I'll try to continue to adapt as long as I'm able. No way I'd ever have guessed I'd be playing half the music I'm playing now - and actually enjoying it. 'Wouldn't be doing it if I hadn't been open to the idea of change.

 

[friskinator]

Sorry to hear that's your experience these days.

Not trying to humble-brag; We're doing ok with it. Luck-of-the-draw? I don't think so.

A local bar-owner gives me first-crack at a once-a-month Friday where we play an hour and a quarter show set, followed by hosting a jam. I hire a drummer and a "special guest" - usually a local heavy hitter on guitar and vocals who knows how to play to the room and honestly engage the crowd.

Drummer and I woodshed his set and play it as if we've been playing together for years. Bar ring is profitable; We also do well with the band tip jar. This is an in-town dive bar where competition is fierce. Judging from the outside, it looks like a dodgy place in a dodgy neighborhood, but it's actually earned a rep for having a good, friendly vibe inside.

There's another venue in town; a top-level listening room where I sometimes do sideman work, that charges cover and packs 'em in on weekends. Owner is a high-skills musician who's good at choosing bands that are tops in their craft when it comes to both talent and engaging the room.

Outside of town in the far 'burbs and far-outlying rural areas, there're venues my regular band plays where there's been a steady crowd, where we've insured profitable nights at the bars.

These are perfect storm venues where you've got a culture that still likes to go out on Fri/Sat night vs staying home watching NBA/MLB/NHL on TV (not me, I'm DVRing the games during gigs LOL!) mixed with a home-spun, story-telling, engaging BL with a great voice and extremely charismatic persona. You can't help but be drawn in.

Will this change? Yeah/probably; It always has. But for now I'm blessed. I'll try to continue to adapt as long as I'm able. No way I'd ever have guessed I'd be playing half the music I'm playing now - and actually enjoying it. 'Wouldn't be doing it if I hadn't been open to the idea of change.

It's not my experience. But it is absolutely where we're collectively heading.

 

[pepj]

For those venues that dont focus on music as the nights event, I'd rather pass on them than have to contend with screens and slots etc etc.
(the problem here is very large bar which needs a lot of running; food, betting rooms, pool rooms, and TV screens and high high rent)
I've yet to find a place where this actually works but the Manager has been told to get heads in and this is how they approach it.
Atmosphere is generally lacking, response lacking and a generally uninspiring gig.
Give me the pissed up party crowd over those places every day of the week and twice on sundays..even though those party bangers also have their downsides too.

Talking of which, I've got a sub date this weekend at a one of the TV screen bars and will be interesting to see how they get on.
Its not a place I'll be keen to go back to with my types of bands.

 

[Pocket Dave]

It's not my experience. But it is absolutely where we're collectively heading.

I don't follow. I can only speak with certainty about my only experience playing a couple times a week, which is there's still a healthy albeit somewhat shifted market.

 

[Pocket Dave]

For those venues that dont focus on music as the nights event, I'd rather pass on them than have to contend with screens and slots etc etc.
(the problem here is very large bar which needs a lot of running; food, betting rooms, pool rooms, and TV screens and high high rent)
I've yet to find a place where this actually works but the Manager has been told to get heads in and this is how they approach it.
Atmosphere is generally lacking, response lacking and a generally uninspiring gig.
Give me the pissed up party crowd over those places every day of the week and twice on sundays..even though those party bangers also have their downsides too.

Talking of which, I've got a sub date this weekend at a one of the TV screen bars and will be interesting to see how they get on.
Its not a place I'll be keen to go back to with my types of bands.

THIS ^^

I call most of those "rooms that don't know what they want to be when they grow up."

With exceptions, most are rooms we steer around.

 

[friskinator]

I don't follow. I can only speak with certainty about my only experience playing a couple times a week, which is there's still a healthy albeit somewhat shifted market.

I'm referring to the slow death of live music on a local level based on the vast number of other entertainment options that do not require leaving the house. Yes, there are isolated markets where it's still somewhat thriving, but those are now the exception, not the norm.

 

[51PRI]

...I don’t think we do that song. Maybe they did it in the past before I replaced their tuba player three years ago? We don’t really play outside of California’s central coast, so that might tell you if it was us or not.

Must not have been you guys, then, but I've seen another band that was just a bunch of horns, drums and bass and they were very good.

 

[Pocket Dave]

I'm referring to the slow death of live music on a local level based on the vast number of other entertainment options that do not require leaving the house. Yes, there are isolated markets where it's still somewhat thriving, but those are now the exception, not the norm.

DFW isn't exactly an isolated market. In the '70s, there were about a dozen live music haunts in Dallas, another half dozen in Fort Worth. They were well-attended, rock, blues rock venues, catering to mostly middle and upper middle class "boomers" in their teens and 20's.

Dallas rocked with its white, boomer-kid monoculture.

In 2024 there are 35 I'm aware of in Dallas county alone, probably about twice that counting venues outside of my circle. This doesn't even take into account solo and duo venues, or Don't Stop Believin' classic rock 'burb venues.

These are moderate-to-well-attended venues providing music ranging from blues to country to urban to old-time swing/jazz/blues (the swing place is in a historic urban district packed with young hipsters no less). These places don't have competing big-screen sports.

Sure, we saw the first-generation rock bars die when cable TV hit, and we saw some closings in the '90s when the internet started to become a thing. But most of these bars were still doing the same old same old without adjustments, while their clientele got married, had kids and aged out.

To be fair, we've had a number of venues shutter, but more open; I've been hearing about the death of live music for 40+ years, and in our market there've been ebbs and flows, but it's still going strong across multiple age levels.

What's different now:

1. Loud is no longer the rule in local live music - People come out to enjoy live music. They also want to be able to socialize, maybe even have a conversation. Adapt or die.
2. Stagnant pay scale - The $100/player thing has been improving for the low-pay rooms, though not on pace with inflation. Still, there are significantly more upper-level rooms that pay a significantly better scale than there was the last time pay scales were reasonable in the early '90s.
3. Just playing music well does not guarantee you're going to draw or retain crowds. I've never seen this more true than now, though TBH, those in the '70s-'80s that were at the top of the local and regional-band food chain could both play and entertain well.