What's wrong with 2023 audiences?

[Pocket Dave]

Dave's experience in DFW is exceptionally similar to mine and points 1 and 3 nail it. The rules have certainly changed and many times my special lady and friends will opt for a place we can chat over a local show. To point 3, entertaining above just playing well has gone beyond being critical in my opinion.

Gigging musicians are competing with so much more than we used to. It's not just the other shows around town, or the movies, or a local dance. We're competing against the cost of going to a show which has gotten higher with inflation. Competing against streaming services and everyone having instantaneous entertainment 24/7 in their pockets. I've been fine with all that but I just can't do the constant self promotion and viral chasing on social media

It's a fine line for me re: social media self-promo. As a BL, I used to do the self-promo thing pretty extensively and I was pretty miserable. OTOH, as a sideman, it's easy - I don't do much more than a quick mention of gigs and I leave it up to the BL to manage the brand.

These days, when I put together my own thing I have to be super careful; Too much self-concern over my own name/brand is toxic. I try to keep it light, tongue-in-cheek and shift the emphasis back to others; the crowd, the venue, friends, bandmates, special guests, etc.

 

[Bass Viking]

It's not even close to the same thing. When we have a U.S.D.contract we have zero expectations other than pay. They asked us to do a favor, and didn't even thank us until the next day.

+1. When you’re being paid the cheque says says thank you.

 

[groovepump]

If the grandad band is trying to get 20-somethings to appreciate their tired version of Mustang Sally and Wagon Wheel, they're kinda on a fool's errand, no?

Would be the same as 20-somethings going to the local American Legion's Senior Night looking for the hottest new electronic music producer/Dj; or going to McDonalds looking for pan seared sea scallops topped with foie gras, and caviar; or going to a Ferrari dealer looking for an affordable, reliable, fuel efficient family car.

They don't need consolation. They need to re-assess their business plan or mission statement or objectives.

Absolutely true!
It has taken my band 5 years to really understand this, but now,
in our 6th year, we are re-thinking everything, from song selections
to how we organise the "entertainment" side of our shows.
Whether others agree or not, the changes WE are making, are for purely
business reasons. Not because "we" necessarily like it, but because our
audience does! We are dropping all the 50-year-old tired rock tunes.
We are adding a lot of backing tracks ( I don't actually like doing this,
but it "works"). We are more "dance" oriented. Gotta move butts outta
their chairs. We are doing more pop/funk/R&B. (I'm enjoying the music change).
The audience responds strongly in favour. Tips have increased. We are being
sought-after by local businesses, events organisers, etc.
If you want to play bigger venues and make $$$, you gotta think about WHO
you're serving. If you want to make money, change it up. If you want to just
play what YOU want to hear, stay home in your bedroom with headphones.

By the way---
We DO play "Chicken Fried", "Mustang Sally", and "Gloria", in between modern
funk and hip-hop stuff, as a mash-up, and we push it with a deep groove;
we rock it out, and the people stay on the dance floor, often singing with us.
It's OK to "own" the song...play it YOUR way...forget the note-for-note cover
thing. It's boring for YOU and the audience. KICK IT! SHRED IT! OWN IT!

Anyway, it works for us. We are getting all the work we want and have raised
our price more than double. (Almost 3x) Just my 2-cents. But it might, in some way,
be helpful to someone else.

 

[KenSmithFan]

I just wanted a Pepsi...

IMHO, drinks should be provided on the house. Unlimited soft drinks and at least one beer or mixed drink.

Although I did play a restaurant once that wanted to charge me for a soda. I said, "In that case I'll have a water ... if it's free." Last time I played there.

 

[KenSmithFan]

+1. When you’re being paid the cheque says says thank you.

And if you're not being paid it says [expletive deleted] you.

 

[Pocket Dave]

And if you're not being paid it says [expletive deleted] you.

Naah.

They're not giving you that much thought. It says you're not even important enough for a proper [expletive deleted] you.

 

[FullumMusic]

Absolutely true!
It has taken my band 5 years to really understand this, but now,
in our 6th year, we are re-thinking everything, from song selections
to how we organise the "entertainment" side of our shows.
Whether others agree or not, the changes WE are making, are for purely
business reasons. Not because "we" necessarily like it, but because our
audience does! We are dropping all the 50-year-old tired rock tunes.
We are adding a lot of backing tracks ( I don't actually like doing this,
but it "works"). We are more "dance" oriented. Gotta move butts outta
their chairs. We are doing more pop/funk/R&B. (I'm enjoying the music change).
The audience responds strongly in favour. Tips have increased. We are being
sought-after by local businesses, events organisers, etc.
If you want to play bigger venues and make $$$, you gotta think about WHO
you're serving. If you want to make money, change it up. If you want to just
play what YOU want to hear, stay home in your bedroom with headphones.

By the way---
We DO play "Chicken Fried", "Mustang Sally", and "Gloria", in between modern
funk and hip-hop stuff, as a mash-up, and we push it with a deep groove;
we rock it out, and the people stay on the dance floor, often singing with us.
It's OK to "own" the song...play it YOUR way...forget the note-for-note cover
thing. It's boring for YOU and the audience. KICK IT! SHRED IT! OWN IT!

Anyway, it works for us. We are getting all the work we want and have raised
our price more than double. (Almost 3x) Just my 2-cents. But it might, in some way,
be helpful to someone else.

Right? There's nothing wrong with wanting to play 25-50 year old rock tunes if that's what you want to play. But you can't expect people showing up at bars to want to hear it, or even come out specifically to hear it. If they're under 35, they've heard all those songs over and over and over for as long as most of them have been alive: Their parents played that music at home and in the car; it's in movies; it's in TV shows; it's in commercials; they're in grocery stores and malls; they're on quietly in the background while the old dudes at the shop/office work. It's completely status-quo old-man music. There's nothing special about hearing it live at the bar, again, for the three hundred thirtieth time.

It's the same reason back when the old-man rockers were 20-somethings and going out to bars, they went to rock shows and not to the stuffy bandstand recitals where they played 20 year old songs like "Buttons and Bows" by Dinah Shaw or "Some Enchanted Evening" by Perry Cuomo.

It's the same reason Frank Zappa or Aphex Twin or Ornette Coleman didn't ever get into the top 10 of the Billboard Hot 100 chart. It's obvious you think about that. "Well of course not! They don't make the kind of music that relates to Billboard Hot 100 audiences! Now if only i can figure out why nobody comes to my band's shows anymore."

 

[Guitalia]

I've seen him before, and my point remains the same.

You post implied that you thought he was a DJ. Probably too late to edit it.

 

[pepj]

Point 2 re payscale. There is only so much wiggleroom on pay...unless you have a sliding scale on targets and you hit them.

Point 1. Loud is ok, but you need to be sure you are carrying the whole room with you.
If ppl have to shout in each others ears, thats not good at all for anyone.
Point 3
Playing well does not always get you the premium rates it should, and thats as much the fault of the public and venue. They won't or don't want to pay more so I'm cool with helping out the venue's yearly business model even if its slightly gauling the fees some bands chance at. But hey, popular draw is thd trump card here.
I just generally ask guys what their fee is and work from there. If they set it too high, they don't work as much or find another better paying scene.
The full times guys can often be the worst here in that they want to max out $ but might not have the commiserate skillset to go with it.
The guys with the better paying regional gigs use local work as top up monies. ime.

 

[Tony In Philly]

We're dealing with this shift in passive audience participation by evolving from a cover band to a bluesy jam band and playing mostly in microbreweries. Some of the places actually seem to appreciate what we're trying to do. We also have an acoustic version for the really small rooms. It definitely is shifting scene around here and it's not entirely bad either, as I really hate doing the "party band" circuit and playing tunes I can't stand.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

We're dealing with this shift in passive audience participation by evolving from a cover band to a bluesy jam band and playing mostly in microbreweries. Some of the places actually seem to appreciate what we're trying to do. We also have an acoustic version for the really small rooms. It definitely is shifting scene around here and it's not entirely bad either, as I really hate doing the "party band" circuit and playing tunes I can't stand.

Interesting. Define "Bluesy Jam Band"? Are there actual songs? Vocals? I'm curious because we play the same type of venues.

 

[Tony In Philly]

Interesting. Define "Bluesy Jam Band"? Are there actual songs? Vocals? I'm curious because we play the same type of venues.

It kind of evolved this way. We had been a two guitar, bass, drums cover band but shrank to a trio as one of the guitarists played too loud for most rooms. As a trio we played a lot tunes that Cream and other blues/rock bands did, and then we eventually added keyboards. That allowed us to take go into more interesting instrumental improvised sections between the vocal verses. The repertoire consists of a number of blues/rock standards plus a few early 90's era tunes thrown in as well, as they seem to be influenced a lot by late 60's/early 70's bands themselves.

 

[StyleOverShow]

Great discussion, relevant issue(s).

I’ve too have marveled at the zombie audiences, but never thought it was because I/we sucked!

I'm joining a 60-70’s cover band this summer because I want to play that music again ( and perhaps for the last time as I consider retirement). In my market, old hippies and a University town, folks still dance, well kinda anyway and come up between sets and ask for their favorites ( a lot of classic tunes mostly). The secret is where you are and I’m lucky that way, and also damned because of it too.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

I'm secretly hoping we get rained out tonight way ahead of time. Why? My twins 14th birthday party is tonight. I do need the money. But my kids are more important than money.
Our trio has had bad luck with outdoor shows for years. Here in the Piedmont it's been raining for 24 hours.
Would be just my luck to NOT be rained out.
Did I know about the party? Maybe. There's a 50/50 chance that Wife On Wife's Terms told me in passing. She's not a great communicator.
These parties are always about her anyway. Trophy house. Trophy husband. Trophy kids. If I get rained out I can keep the peace and maybe help the kids to have a good time at "their" party.

 

[51PRI]

I'm secretly hoping we get rained out tonight way ahead of time. Why? My twins 14th birthday party is tonight. I do need the money. But my kids are more important than money.
Our trio has had bad luck with outdoor shows for years. Here in the Piedmont it's been raining for 24 hours.
Would be just my luck to NOT be rained out.
Did I know about the party? Maybe. There's a 50/50 chance that Wife On Wife's Terms told me in passing. She's not a great communicator.
These parties are always about her anyway. Trophy house. Trophy husband. Trophy kids. If I get rained out I can keep the peace and maybe help the kids to have a good time at "their" party.

Your twin's birthdays are all day today, right? Isn't there some time during the day that their birthdays can be celebrated while still allowing you to do your day gig, if you have one, and also your band gig? Seems that some concessions regarding your schedule might be made.

 

[squarepeg]

Here's a little poem I wrote (I know, nobody wants to read poetry, like nobody wants to listen to local bands):

The rest is here: https://syncopationliteraryjournal....loads/2024/02/v.-kennedy-guitarpoem-proof.pdf

 

[pepj]

I find the audience differences fascinating.
We actually have 2 or 3 sets to cater for different types of gigs.
The friday and saturday night gigs are not the same as the Sunday afternoon gig but even then if its later sunday and the summer crowd has been making a day of it going from one gig to another...starts 1pm, 4pm, 7pm..the 7pm gig can equal a friday night and be lively.

So, its important to match up on gigs and be
brave enough to stick to your convictions.

 

[Pocket Dave]

I find the audience differences fascinating.
We actually have 2 or 3 sets to cater for different types of gigs.
The friday and saturday night gigs are not the same as the Sunday afternoon gig but even then if its later sunday and the summer crowd has been making a day of it going from one gig to another...starts 1pm, 4pm, 7pm..the 7pm gig can equal a friday night and be lively.

So, its important to match up on gigs and be
brave enough to stick to your convictions.

Personally, I believe it's important to have a plan.

Also important to be willing to throw it out the window and just play the room when expectations don't align with the plan.

And perhaps most important to be willing to accept when things happen beyond the control of even the most engaging act and soldier on nevertheless.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

Personally, I believe it's important to have a plan.

Also important to be willing to throw it out the window and just play the room when expectations don't align with the plan.

And perhaps most important to be willing to accept when things happen beyond the control of even the most engaging act and soldier on nevertheless.

Agreed.
Last night we were playing a barbeque restaurant which ostensibly becomes a biker bar. The drummer and I had to browbeat the BL into not playing Depeche Mode Personal Jesus to a crowd split between families and bikers. I yelled "no. Play Whipping Post!".
Show had its up moments. The uppest moment was when my comped plate of cornmeal batter shrimp arrived. With fried pickles and fried okra.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

I've really taken stock of the BL. He's not cut out for the job. We had Doppler rain threatening to ruin our outdoor show. BL couldn't take a stand with the venue. Had the rain forced us to break down and end the show without pay I might have turned in my resignation.
I'm at a crossroads in my life. I don't want to retire from playing live, but I think this band is fated to obscurity.
My concern is that turning 58 next month, I'll just endlessly scroll band ads on Craigslist and never really end up in a gigging band again.
I suppose I could try to tutor BL more having been in management 15 years of my life. But I don't think you can teach people to make clutch decisions.
Since BL is unable to make clutch decisions or set boundaries with venues, both the drummer and I are in a slow burn situation almost every week.
I know this is a luxury problem. It won't be solved today. Both my band mates have separate gigs this weekend so I can ruminate.
May the force be with you.