What's Wrong with Scooping the Mids?

[JazzyJacuzzi]

I'm not well acquainted with the amps forum, so bear with me here.

I was trying out the sample settings in the Mesa WD-800's manual today with a drum track and my favourite with my Precision and Jazz was: bass at 1, passive mid at 9 and treble at 11.

Now, when I started playing bass in the early 2000s, mid-scooping was all the rage, at least in acid jazz, jazz fusion, funk and funk rock.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like mid-scooping has since fell out of favour. I'm worried I've become a product of my time, like how James Jamerson was left behind in the 70s because he refused to switch his Precision strung with flats for an active bass with rounds. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I'm wondering why mid-scooping fell out of favour. Am I missing something?

 

[g-dude]

Well, just remember that your mids are where you're going to get all those delicious overtones - the reason why the notes sound bette than simple sine waves.

If you scoop those out, you won't cut through the mix as well.

What I've found is that if the bass sounds good in the mix, it sounds lousy by itself.

 

[bassdude51]

I love the mid-scoop sound. That's how I am set up in the living room. Man, when I dial in the mids.........YUCK! Nasal, canny sounding, tinny, ugly!

Now, I hear comments here on TalkBass how a bass needs to "cut through" the mix. Mids cut through. I can see that.

I don't know. The living room sound? The live on stage "cut through" sound?

When I hear a live band, I like when I "feel" the bass. When my "bottom 2" rattle and shake! I love low frequency. "Rattle 'em!"

I like scooped!

Whatever floats our boat! Whatever sounds good to hour ears. (I am of the "feel" and "not heard" generation.)

 

[Analogeezer]

Well by the comments around here you would think scooping your mids is akin to dating your sister but I don't find it "old fashioned" or "out of favor".

Depends on the level of "scooping" of course but remember the midrange is where your ear hears best which is why backing off the mids often makes the sound more balanced. The midrange being dominant in human hearing is why you see "smiley faced EQ" on PA rigs and such.

It also depends a lot on the style of music you play, some styles sound better with the mids dialed back others need more mids into the mix. Also the cabinet(s) you are using plays a huge part into what EQ settings work best.

The entire reason amps have controls on them as opposed to just a master volume is to dial the sound into the taste of the user.

If scooping the mids works for you, well it works for you.

I'd not worry about it not "being in style" quite frankly.

Analogeezer

 

[Analogeezer]

I'm not well acquainted with the amps forum, so bear with me here.

I was trying out the sample settings in the Mesa WD-800's manual today with a drum track and my favourite with my Precision and Jazz was: bass at 1, passive mid at 9 and treble at 11.

Now, when I started playing bass in the early 2000s, mid-scooping was all the rage, at least in acid jazz, jazz fusion, funk and funk rock.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like mid-scooping has since fell out of favour. I'm worried I've become a product of my time, like how James Jamerson was left behind in the 70s because he refused to switch his Precision strung with flats for an active bass with rounds. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I'm wondering why mid-scooping fell out of favour. Am I missing something?

Remember too the era you were talking about active basses were quite popular. They can have a lot of mid content depending on the control settings on the bass.

I have an Ibanez SR1200 that is active and the mid-range control not only has boost/cut it has another control that lets you dial in the frequency the mid control is acting upon. It works very well to dial in the right range of mids you want; whereas with a passive bass you are kind of stuck with whatever mids the pickups put out and most P-Bass and Jazz Basses tend to run with the tone controls set mostly full up.

Analogeezer

 

[AGCurry]

... like how James Jamerson was left behind in the 70s because he refused to switch his Precision strung with flats for an active bass with rounds...

IIRC, Jamerson was "left behind" because a) his drinking got to be too problematic, and b) Motown's move to LA made him ... redundant. In other words, inability to repair himself and adapt to new challenges.

 

[frankie5string]

Nathan East has made a career out of having a mid-shy tone. First with his "Magic Box", and later with the circuit embedded in his namesake basses. Chuck Rainey over the years has also dialled back his midrange on his active basses. In his words, it keeps his bass from sounding "too nerdy" heh.

 

[seamonkey]

Low fundamentals are all sine waves.
All the Tone is in the harmonics in the mids and highs.
Modern cabs though are much better and reproducing mids with good dispersion.

It's your choice though - you can scoop the mids and you don't need to ask for permission.

 

[Deleted member 165050]

There's a good reason why the Precision is still popular 60+ years on...

 

[DwaynieAD]

Mids are most of what you are thinking of when you're thinking about Good bass tone. Scooped mids generally sound good by yourself but lack luster in a band setting because you end up competing with guitars for sonic space

 

[GodPlayedBass]

I think a lot of bassists are trying to stand out now. Pumping your mids makes it easier for you to be heard. Scooping mids makes people FEEL you more than they hear. Perhaps this is the new era of bassists trying to be lead guitar haha.

 

[Gearhead17]

Scooping the mids is not popular on talkbass because there are FAR TOO many threads from bass players saying "I can't hear myself on stage/at practice!" MANY bass players will take their bedroom tone to practice/stage and can't understand why they can't hear a darn note they are playing. If you don't have enough midrange content in your tone, it's going to be quite difficult to hear the note you are playing in a band mix.

Room acoustics, the frequencies other band members are occupying, and where are you are standing in relation to your rig will effect the way you perceive your bass tone. The other issue at hand: what frequencies are you referring to regarding "scooping"?? Are you dropping the 400-700hz band heavily? Decreasing the 200-300hz a bit to remove muddiness? Reducing the 800hz to 1khz zone to stay out of the treble world? There are a lot of variables here.

The other part of scooping is the simplicity of pushing a mid-scoop button on an amp head. Ampeg has the "Ultra Low", GK has "Contour", Eden has the "Enhance", Trace Elliot has "Shape". MANY times, bass players push these buttons or heavily crank the knob to get the sound they like WITHOUT trying with the band first. That is mistake number one.

My suggestion - start with all knobs in the neutral/not boosted position and start playing with the band. Adjust your tone to work with everyone else with SMALL adjustments. If the guitars are strong in the midrange (500-800hz, a small decrease from your bass in those exact frequencies will create space in the mix for the guitars and allow your bass tone to be heard in different frequencies. In conjunction with a small midrange decrease, perhaps a small boost between 40hz and 100hz would work well in that situation - try it!

 

[Killing Floor]

I've spent a lot of time dialing in the tone I like. After years of research and many piles of cash I learned the secret to bass equalization.
If it sounds good it is good.

 

[lfmn16]

I was trying out the sample settings in the Mesa WD-800's manual today with a drum track and my favourite with my Precision and Jazz was: bass at 1, passive mid at 9 and treble at 11.

What sounds good in your bedroom does not necessarily translate to a great tone when playing with a band.

 

[g-dude]

There's a good reason why the Precision is still popular 60+ years on...

Because people are resistant to change?

Just kidding…kind of.

 

[rashrader]

Find your tone and be your own player. I don't think that anyone can objectively say how a bass should sound.

 

[FunkHead]

It really is just that simple. You need more mids with a live band.

 

[eriky4003]

Mids are well-produced by good to great gear in a live setting so you will get heft of tone by keeping them in. If you have really great gear (Mesa, Berg, etc.), a scooped tone might work well in a live environment.

 

[Pings Bass]

The best tone in an ensemble = being able to hear the notes everybody plays. Start flat, and make adjustments if needed if you can't hear your notes along with everybody else's notes. Just as with being a good musician, most of dialing in a good tone is being a good listener.

I like a little mid scoop, depending on the type of group I'm playing with. IME a scooped tone isn't the best with guitars in the mix; they'll suck up all the air in the room and bury the bass if you vacate any a section of the frequency spectrum.

 

[SixtyCycleHum]

Man, it sounds cool on its own when you dial back the mids at home. But I want you to try something. Crank up your stereo and play along to some rock/metal tracks. Something happens to your bass when the mids are scooped like that in a band mix. It's like a magician waves his wand. It just kind of...vanishes. Let's push that mid knob back to the right until we're at least meeting the kick drum, huh?