What's Wrong with Scooping the Mids?

[smo]

I've done a lot of FOH, and worked with a lot of FOH folks, and never met anyone who did that. Then again, the folks I've worked with you wouldn't call "lazy". Apparently we live in different worlds.

Thankfully I've not experienced this often. The one that sticks in my mind was in a recording studio years ago. Needless to say, I was gob-smacked when he told us his reasons. Shameless. I won't name the guy here, but I won't be working with him again.

 

[Steve Dallman]

Back in the 70's, 80's and into the 90's, I cut as much at 250Hz I could. I did it with my SVT, later with the biamped rigs I built up. I wanted to be above and below the range of the guitars. I ran fresh round wounds and started using treble horns in my rigs from 1976 on.I never had any trouble hearing myself and neither did the audience.

I haven't used that sound since the early 2000's. I still like a full range rig.

 

[groovaholic]

Wrong? Nothing. You aren't a bad person if you scoop your mids.

But the human ear is most sensitive to midrange frequencies, so if you reduce or remove the frequencies that your ears hear most easily, you'll generally have a harder time hearing yourself.
(See also: "Fletcher-Munson" or "Equal Loudness" Curves)

I say generally because if the overall mix has a lot going on in that midrange band, you might sound better by creating a bit of space. In mixing, this is referred to as "Link Removed".

 

[NYBassPlayer]

I boost mids as opposed to cutting them. I play rock so say what you will, but it's taken me years to realize that the bass tone I want to hear while the band is playing which allows me to cut through in the mix is very aggressive and almost shocking when heard alone without the band playing. If you painstakingly achieve your ideal sound alone, once the bands kick in guitars, cymbals, etc. crush all the goodness and will leave you unable to hear the tone you thought you achieved.

 

[pepj]

Mids can be hard to tame and not very forgiving.
I tend to find that ppl that don't really understand their sound can and do screw it out of sight.

I think a scopped sound is where they need to start but they keep reading about mids. If you understand them, then sure.

But if you load the mids and gtrs live there too, what are your options apart from mush.

The best gtrs I play with will basically zero their bass on their amps so you get your sonic space.

 

[pepj]

There's a good reason why the Precision is still popular 60+ years on...

If I'm asked by bass playing friends to give an opinion on their sound, 99% of the time they'd do well to swap out for a P bass.
Then the gtr needs to get rid of his half stack and learn to play with space. They are the equivalent of a piano players left hand.

If the gtr can do that..and they are a rare breed, then your mix has a fighting chance. But if a gtr says he is playing to drive the song, run as fast as you can because its hopeless.

 

[Old Fart]

..... Man, when I dial in the mids.........YUCK! Nasal, canny sounding, tinny, ugly!

Now, I hear comments here on TalkBass how a bass needs to "cut through" the mix. Mids cut through. I can see that.

I don't know. The living room sound? The live on stage "cut through" sound?......

Yup.

The "living room sound" sounds great in your living room. Fat. Piano-ey. Just lovely.

The middy sound is very boring. Sort of "honk"-ey. This is the sound you want in a live mix, particularly if there is competition from other musicians in the low and high frequencies. This happens almost always.

 

[zortation]

You can cut mids better if you have an amp with low and high mid controls. So keeping some high mids while cutting the low mids can get you a scooped tone with some punch.

 

[Cut the middle]

What's Wrong with Scooping the Mids?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like mid-scooping has since fell out of favour.

Not with me. Check my name.

 

[jobu3]

Tone that sounds pleasing in isolation or very controlled settings tends to get lost in a mix. Tone that sounds good in a mix tends to not sound all that pleasant in isolation.

 

[Staccato]

Mid-scoop still sounds good with overdrive and a pick (lots of metal guys do this) or slapping and popping with a bunch of compression (Marcus Miller, etc).

For the most part, when playing fingerstyle in a typical rock, pop, blues, jazz, context a little mid bump sounds great.

^^ Maybe one of the most helpful 'how to' posts I've read all year.

 

[Zenbassie]

Tone that sounds pleasing in isolation or very controlled settings tends to get lost in a mix. Tone that sounds good in a mix tends to not sound all that pleasant in isolation.

This is bass tone's great truth....

 

[hbarcat]

This is an example of a bass amp EQ setting that's what I might typically send to FOH. I always do this when I run sound for a venue.

The cut between 500Hz and 1kHz is there to give some sonic space to the guitars, keys, snare, vocals, etc. This is balanced by the boost around 3kHz.

The cut in the lowest frequency is to make room for the kick drum, and this is balanced by the slight boost at 125Hz.

It seems to me there is more talk about the negative affects of the "smiley face" EQ curve, compared to the "scooped mids" curve.

 

[Zenbassie]

This is an example of a bass amp EQ setting that's what I might typically send to FOH. I always do this when I run sound for a venue.

Yep, that's "scooped" all right (although it has had the ends pruned as well).

 

[Chickenwheels]

I didn't scoop my GK last Saturday's gig. I just boosted the lows 2 clicks. I was playing a Wal.
It really depends on the venue/band/bass.