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when constructive criticism becomes control, next on channel 7

#41
Gah...ok, awkward. So, we played a gig tonight and not only was there essentially no one there, but then this guy I'm kinda dating showed up and as I said my goodbyes to the band to go out with him and his friends to another bar, the BL was like, "Man, you bass players are bad...don't drink too much, hope you're on The Pill!" All in jest of course, but I was still like, "..." which for me is unusual, i.e. it takes a lot to render me speechless. Uh, so, I finally forced a laugh and then left to pursue my naughty bassist life of debauchery. But man, the gig sucked. :-( All this due to the BL's theory of not promoting because of the stupid non-existent 2-week blackout rule!

So then, get this.... my guy's friend started talking to myself and the drummer about putting together a funk project (he plays guitar). Which, mind you, brought up something interesting for me: maybe the drummer is bored too! Maybe he and I would click better if we had a different guitarist! Hmm...anyway, uh, I'm gonna go to bed. What a waste of hairspray and eyeliner! Argh!
 
#43
hernameisrio said:
I said my goodbyes to the band to go out with him and his friends to another bar, the BL was like, "Man, you bass players are bad...don't drink too much, hope you're on The Pill!" All in jest of course, but I was still like, "..." which for me is unusual, i.e. it takes a lot to render me speechless. Uh, so, I finally forced a laugh and then left to pursue my naughty bassist life of debauchery.
Click to expand...

Joke or not, that's really sexist. Would he tell a male friend "don't drink too much, hope you've got your tubes tied"? "Don't get too drunk, hope you use a condom!" "Don't get wasted, hope you remember to pull out!"

The more I read of your band leader (if "leader" is really the right word for the guy), the more he sounds like a genuinely awful person. Go with the funk project, it doesn't even exist yet and it already sounds like a better bet.
 
#44
Hey, yeah! It IS kinda sexist! Where is the angry face emoticon when you need it?! Which I think tends to happen when guys try too hard to treat women like "one of the guys" and sometimes it just doesn't translate across the board that easily. BTW Chris, are you talking about the funk project or the guy I went out with last night?? Ha! I guess part of why I'm oblivious to this stuff is because right now at this point in my life, I just don't care...my focus is on the music. It's really kind of a joke to me that personal stuff like this gets in the way. I'm all for being treated like "one of the guys" and raunchy jokes and so on...my boss at the studio and I talk **** to each other and it's funny. But I think part of why it's funny is because he's 64 years old and I'm 30 and there isn't an ounce of sexual attraction between us...so we can get away with it. Anyway, I am rambling because I just woke up and I have rehearsal tonight, but you get the idea.

You know, it's funny...I have completely had it with this guy, all of a sudden, and it actually feels kinda good to reach this point. I forgot to mention, the other messed up part is that this guy videotaped our show and was talking to a pretend crowd the whole time to make it seem like there were people there. I get it, kinda, but it was...strange. Well, that's obviously enough of that. I don't even care if the funk band pans out long-term or is just a fun jam...I just want to play with people who truly appreciate me instead of trying to micromanage what I play, how I look (I played keys in a band where the guy made me wear skirts. I NOW HATE SKIRTS BECAUSE OF THIS *@*#$*#$* JERK, UGH! haha), and apparently, who I spend my extracurricular time with.

In fact, when it comes down to it, I have no problem with being told what to play. But I do have a problem with being told how to live my life. I am striving to become a flexible, open-minded bassist who can adapt to any situation and still create an impact with what I play by helping to hold the songs together. If people want to contribute to that process by suggesting what I play or giving me parameters to work within, fine. But if they're gonna micromanage my life...I've had enough of that already...I don't need it again.

:sadbass:

Good morning, TalkBass. I love you. :D
 
#45
It seems to me since you've had control issues in the past from band leaders in previous bands and you continue to be challenged by band leaders exerting control over "their band", there is only one suitable solution for you.

Quit the band, start your own. Take control and leadership. Bassists are very in demand so there is a large market for you to choose from, so don't choose. Have them come to you. Hand pick your own band.

Decide on the style you want to play, decide upon the types of people you want in your band and do it. Its obvious to me that you won't be happy merely taking orders and toeing the line, so create your own line and run with it!
 
#46
I don't disagree about starting my own project...but I also don't think it's a case of my not wanting to take orders. I'm totally willing to do so. I just haven't found the right people yet. I'm not like, some anarchist who can't take direction. It's more the personal b.s. that I've run into. Here was the BL's critique of the show: "Enjoyed playing last night. Your makeup looked great." I cannot spew forth with the four-letter words I'd prefer, as I would be banned. So I'm just going to say, gosh darn it people. Is it so hard to find a fudging band to play with where the music comes first? People say start my own project like it's so easy to write songs...I've been trying to write and to me it's a different process than the role I play (and WANT to play) as a bassist. I WANT people to tell me what to do, but only if I can either get paid for it, or feel some degree of emotional fulfillment. I don't think that simple criteria makes me wrong or somehow unfit for a band.
 
#47
To put it another way: tell me what to play. But when I put down that bass to live the rest of my life, don't tell me what to wear, who to date, etc. I need MORE structure in a band...created by the MUSIC...not by surrounding drama. I don't think that makes me unfit to be in a band. Sorry to sound defensive but this is important to me. I want to make a career out of playing bass...it is not just a hobby!
 
#48
Didn't say you couldn't take orders. Merely pointing out the observation that you're more of a leader than a follower, so use those skills to your advantage. Given, your existing band leader has serious issues interracting with a female band member, but I think the underlying message from you is disappointment with direction. I am taking this not only from this most recent challenge, but also from other challenges you have approached Talkbass for direction around.

If you take the lead, you can locate people to work with. You don't need to necessarily be the main songwriter to lead a band, and honestly, often the most creative people aren't good at the "business" side of the industry. Look for people that have important band skills that you DON'T have.

Leadership doesn't mean you must do everything. A great leader knows how to leverage their partners skills. Leadership means providing direction. You know the direction that you want YOUR music to head in, so find people with similar visions.
 
#49
Based on what I've read of your point of view, the guy sounds mentally unstable. Granted that's just your view, but wrong or right, it's obviously making you unhappy. Playing music should never make you unhappy in the overall scheme. If it does, it means you should move on, imo.
 
#51
ChrisB2 said:
And him telling you about his lady friends makes me more suspicious, not less. He's telling you about this to guage your interest in HIM, and to let you know he's not happy with his relationships and would favor a change (hint-hint).
Click to expand...

+1 Exactly.

IME, when someone starts talking to you about their relationships or when they last had a relationship or about having or not having an intimate relationship with someone else or the quality/quantity of that intimate relationship, unless you are a family therapist, IME, they are hitting on you in a back door kinda way.

I've had this happen to me many times in the past and the other person is definitely attempting to gauge your interest in her/him.
 
#52
+whatever to getting out of there and thinking that there's some crushing going on. I see you're in Brooklyn, and there are tons of opportunities, especially with a good drummer. There are a lot of bands looking for bassists in Brooklyn, and you should be having fun.

All that said...my band is looking for a keyboard player, ideally a female who could sing backup. I can play keys myself, so I might even be up for switching on some tunes. We practice in Williamsburg and are playing a show at Trash Bar on Saturday night. PM me if interested and I can send links. I'm completely serious; we've played with someone else who is great but tours with his main band, and we're putting up a craigslist ad soon.
 
#54
Haha! Hey Jive, now THAT'S a possibility! Maybe both in the same band? Could be interesting. :P

Well, I talked to the BL and threw all the issues onto the table (except for the It Seems Like You Want To Sleep With Me And I'm Telling You Right Now The Answer Is No thing...). I was direct and to the point without yelling or getting hysterical. I was surprised that the first thing he asked me was, "Is there anything about this that's within my control?" It was kind of a weird way to say, "What do you want me to do about it?"

I said that well, if he really wants to know, maybe he should be more flexible about how the songs are played and the instrumentation and arrangement involved from a production standpoint....and that maybe it's worth being equally flexible when it comes to auditioning new people to play with us...but that beyond those two things, the rest of it is honestly just me and my growing pains...that my head is just in a weird transitional place right now as a bassist and that there probably isn't much he can do. I agreed to come to the rehearsals leading up to the gig in a week and to play the gig, and then to "check in" again at that point. I'm not expecting my feelings to change, it's more just to make a clean getaway without burning bridges and to feel like I at least finished out something I committed to. So I've basically got one foot out the door and even though he's disappointed, he was apologetic about causing so much turmoil with my personal life and said I should've talked to him sooner.

To be fair, I guess I wanted to give things more of a chance because after all, it is a new band who is just getting off the ground with gigs and songs, and I wanted to be considerate of that without seeming like I was jumping the gun or being impatient. Also, my negative feelings towards this band really did kinda come out of left field. It really was like, one day I was surprised to find myself feeling irritable and not-in-the-mood on the way to rehearsal.

Anyway, the talk went well...now I'm just looking around for other bands and opportunities to jam, play on sessions, whatever gets thrown my way.

p.s. smperry, I PMed you, thanks!
 
#55
hernameisrio said:
Also, my negative feelings towards this band really did kinda come out of left field. It really was like, one day I was surprised to find myself feeling irritable and not-in-the-mood on the way to rehearsal.
Click to expand...

I'm confused :confused:

With all the detailed problems you presented about the band leader, why would you blame yourself for your negative feelings?

And, when the BL asked if any of the problems were under his control, it seems to me that you needed to be more articulate and detailed about what you needed from him.

Your last post gives me the feeling that you kinda wimped out during the meeting by not being more direct. :confused:
 
#56
Nooo, not wimpy at all...considering my personality, I was pretty direct. I started the whole discussion by saying, "I am fed up and frustrated and here's why." Uh, then I said why. So at least compared to his pothead, hippie, "Let me know your thoughts, man..." passive-aggressive b.s., I'd say I was pretty direct. I sure did let him know my thoughts! And I'm not blaming myself for any of this...I'm just saying, he probably had no idea I was feeling this way and that therefore, he didn't quite know how to react.

I'm not upset about leaving the band. I'm just kinda depressed that I let it take up so much of my time and that it's left me so fatigued, that when I went to pick up my bass today to do some scales, I had to stop after 20 minutes. I've been trying to work on my right-hand technique, and it's a little disheartening to realize that despite all these marathon rehearsals, I suddenly feel I've hit a plateau and engrained some bad habits in the process of just blowing through the set with the band and not really focusing on my own improvement. Which is why I decided to start setting aside money for lessons and striving for a more disciplined and structured approach.

Oh well, I guess it's all part of the process of reaching the next level as a musician. I want to take the next week to have a look at some of the theory books my teacher gave me, start making scales a bigger part of my routine, and jam with friends...I just feel like I need to shake things up a bit.
 
#58
Wow, a lot of issues here. I did multi-quote along the way to remind myself of some points.

mambo4 said:
chicks still dig John Taylor?
That tears it, I'm off to get my bangs frosted...
Click to expand...

There seems to be more 80's love out there than ever. I have to relearn at lot of that stuff.

hernameisrio said:
Gah...ok, awkward. So, we played a gig tonight and not only was there essentially no one there, but then this guy I'm kinda dating showed up and as I said my goodbyes to the band to go out with him and his friends to another bar, the BL was like, "Man, you bass players are bad...don't drink too much, hope you're on The Pill!" All in jest of course, but I was still like, "..." which for me is unusual, i.e. it takes a lot to render me speechless. Uh, so, I finally forced a laugh and then left to pursue my naughty bassist life of debauchery. But man, the gig sucked. :-( All this due to the BL's theory of not promoting because of the stupid non-existent 2-week blackout rule!

So then, get this.... my guy's friend started talking to myself and the drummer about putting together a funk project (he plays guitar). Which, mind you, brought up something interesting for me: maybe the drummer is bored too! Maybe he and I would click better if we had a different guitarist! Hmm...anyway, uh, I'm gonna go to bed. What a waste of hairspray and eyeliner! Argh!
Click to expand...

That bolded quote is so off base that it left me speechless.
Goats are more well mannered than that.


Varcolac said:
Joke or not, that's really sexist. Would he tell a male friend "don't drink too much, hope you've got your tubes tied"? "Don't get too drunk, hope you use a condom!" "Don't get wasted, hope you remember to pull out!"

The more I read of your band leader (if "leader" is really the right word for the guy), the more he sounds like a genuinely awful person. Go with the funk project, it doesn't even exist yet and it already sounds like a better bet.
Click to expand...

Agreed and yes, give the funk a roll. Funk is a good genre for a bassist to master.

smperry said:
+whatever to getting out of there and thinking that there's some crushing going on. I see you're in Brooklyn, and there are tons of opportunities, especially with a good drummer. There are a lot of bands looking for bassists in Brooklyn, and you should be having fun.

All that said...my band is looking for a keyboard player, ideally a female who could sing backup. I can play keys myself, so I might even be up for switching on some tunes. We practice in Williamsburg and are playing a show at Trash Bar on Saturday night. PM me if interested and I can send links. I'm completely serious; we've played with someone else who is great but tours with his main band, and we're putting up a craigslist ad soon.
Click to expand...

You might want to serious consider this. From what I know of Mr. Perry, the fastball of getting in with someone like him who is monster bassist that will motivate you to up your game just got thrown at you and I think you just missed the throw as it went by. Pay attention now, go check it out.
 
#60
Stumbo said:
I'm confused :confused:

With all the detailed problems you presented about the band leader, why would you blame yourself for your negative feelings?

And, when the BL asked if any of the problems were under his control, it seems to me that you needed to be more articulate and detailed about what you needed from him.

Your last post gives me the feeling that you kinda wimped out during the meeting by not being more direct. :confused:
Click to expand...

Hmm, I would agree with this if the personal issues weren't included in the discussion -- his comments about your living arrangements, etc. Can't tell from the updates...

IMO this should have been brought up too, and sternly repudiated -- if you have any desire to stay in the band, that is.

If you don't (and I know it sounds like you're making exit plans), then I guess it doesn't matter.

Anyway... did you giggle at him? I was really wanting to see how that played out....... :D
 

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