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when constructive criticism becomes control, next on channel 7

Well, I talked to the BL and threw all the issues onto the table (except for the It Seems Like You Want To Sleep With Me And I'm Telling You Right Now The Answer Is No thing...). I was direct and to the point without yelling or getting hysterical. I was surprised that the first thing he asked me was, "Is there anything about this that's within my control?" It was kind of a weird way to say, "What do you want me to do about it?"

If your bandleader seemed unwilling to address any of the personal issues, then I think he may be a bit of a lost cause.

"Is there anything about this that's within my control?" reeks of someone who isn't willing to take responsibility for their own behavior. Especially considering his remark about the pill after your gig. I'm in a band with two women, and if a male bandmate spoke to either of them like that I just could not stand for it. It's incredibly uncool.

People skills and personal chemistry count for a lot in a band. Especially if you're in a stage where the project isn't completely about gig income. Someone who feels comfortable behaving like this is probably not a person you're going to want to work with for an extended period of time.
 
@ Chris: I didn't "giggle" at him, I dragged him out for a drink after rehearsal and basically unleashed my angst on him in an f-bomb-infused tirade. It sounded like it would be fun at first, but come on...I don't have time for such games! Also, awkward flirting with guys you don't really like In That Way, is awkward. AKA it happens to me often enough in real life without my planning it, that to do it deliberately just seems self-destructive.

@ Shoe: Yeah, the minute he asked me what he could control, I was just like, "..." What a strange thing to say. It was a little unsettling.

@ Everyone: Well, now I have a terrible cold/sinus infection/something involving severe congestion and feeling like I have been hit by a truck...soooo, when I DO go to play our 11 pm (UGH!!! I HATE GOING ON THAT LATE RAGE ARGH1!!) gig on Saturday, I'll doubtlessly be all doped up on Sudafed and other fun things. So, uh, wish me luck.
 
hernameisrio said:
@ Chris: I didn't "giggle" at him, I dragged him out for a drink after rehearsal and basically unleashed my angst on him in an f-bomb-infused tirade. It sounded like it would be fun at first, but come on...I don't have time for such games! Also, awkward flirting with guys you don't really like In That Way, is awkward. AKA it happens to me often enough in real life without my planning it, that to do it deliberately just seems self-destructive.

@ Shoe: Yeah, the minute he asked me what he could control, I was just like, "..." What a strange thing to say. It was a little unsettling.

@ Everyone: Well, now I have a terrible cold/sinus infection/something involving severe congestion and feeling like I have been hit by a truck...soooo, when I DO go to play our 11 pm (UGH!!! I HATE GOING ON THAT LATE RAGE ARGH1!!) gig on Saturday, I'll doubtlessly be all doped up on Sudafed and other fun things. So, uh, wish me luck.

Just checking in on this thread to see how it's going.

I think you're doing the right thing and be confident.

I think something that has gone understated in this thread is the extent of the BL's manipulative behavior. Everything from the pill comment to the "anything I can control" question are attempts at manipulation, IMO.

Get through the show but stay focused on the better things ahead.
 
It's going...awkwardly. I think the BL knows I'm on my way out because I've been a lot less talkative with him lately. It actually kinda sucks, as it seemed like for a while we were friends and now everything's all messed up between the drama with the rehearsal space and my roommate, not to mention whatever his personal feelings are towards me (which I'm obviously not reciprocating). I have no problem with moving on to a new band or digging into my own stuff or whatever...the hardest part of this is having something so positive turn into something so negative, so quickly. Maybe I shouldn't have clung to it as such a lifeline in the first place, but you guys know how it is when it comes to music...it just sucks you in!

The other strange thing is that I took an hour today to go through some scales and focus on a few specific bass lines, just some of my favorites, and I found that I suddenly felt cheated, robbed of time I could've spent really refining my chops instead of getting stuck in a rut of playing the same lines over and over. And given how repetitive this guy's songs are, it really IS over and over. It's run its course as a decent workout for me, let alone as anything emotionally fulfilling. It was incredibly disheartening to feel "rusty" even though I've been playing quite often due to rehearsals (although the catch here is that obviously those rehearsals cut into my time to practice "my" stuff). So that's tough too.

Then there's this obnoxious nagging doubt: what if I'm bailing on this project at a point in time when things could really take off and we could end up playing a lot of shows and actually being successful? As much as the bandleader doesn't seem like the kind of person I'd want to succeed WITH, it's always frustrating to wonder what I could've missed out on. As controlling as he seems, he's even gone so far as to call me his co-pilot in this whole thing and to take my opinions and suggestions into account. Which has been kinda nice.

I guess in a way, even though it's only been for a few months, I've invested quite a lot into this project and it bothers me a little bit to feel like it'll all come to nothing. The simple fact is that I don't know what feels worse: feeling like I've been blocked from making my own progress because I gave so much time, money, and energy to this...or feeling like I'm in a band that could go somewhere, but that I'm on a short leash the whole way through. Then again, the latter will only prolong the former, won't it?
 
Update:

Quit the band and managed to remain on friendly terms too...I just said the band politics just weren't working out for me and that I felt like at this point, it's just not a good fit anymore, but that I appreciate the time I did have working with them.

Eh, why not.

Onward and upward!
 
hernameisrio said:
Then there's this obnoxious nagging doubt: what if I'm bailing on this project at a point in time when things could really take off and we could end up playing a lot of shows and actually being successful? As much as the bandleader doesn't seem like the kind of person I'd want to succeed WITH, it's always frustrating to wonder what I could've missed out on. As controlling as he seems, he's even gone so far as to call me his co-pilot in this whole thing and to take my opinions and suggestions into account. Which has been kinda nice.

Good to share the feelings, but reality check time. A band that is taking off is unmistakeable. You make your schedule for the week, and it explodes into 3x as many things with meetings, interviews, discussions about more bookings, demos of new songs, etc. There is no doubt about it. From what you've said about the band, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

If you'll allow me to be a chauvinist pig for a sec, the best way to play with a woman's emotions are to tell her that she's important and valuable to you. It's even better if you portray yourself as needing her help. Going back a few posts, I think your BL is pretty good at manipulation.

Forget the doubt. Glad to hear that you made the split. I'd bet anything that in a few weeks you'll be shocked that it took so long to reach this point.
 
good choice! stressing is definitely not worth it, and i've been following this thread for a while; it's abundantly clear your were dissatisfied! glad you decided to move on. you won't be hurting for gigs; bass players are always in demand (especially the good ones!).

You will definitely be able to find a band that doesn't worry about gender, dating, or anything that could get complicated.... some people are just in it for the music.
 
Sociopaths come in all forms - some of them are even loveable. Keeping things simple makes dealing with them a non-issue. The minute you are in territory where you feel that figuring out how to negotiate your way through an known set of psycho-dramas is just part of the package, you are already doomed.

Working with sane musicians on music is complicated enough. It should be rewarding, not stressful. Drama is absolutely not required yet some people don't seem to go anywhere without theirs.

Don't bring any, don't suffer any.
 
The fact that your roomie is no real threat means nothing to a man who's interested in a woman. If he's interested in you, EVERY man is the enemy, ESPECIALLY one who is sleeping under your roof. Over the top threatening!!

Maybe a man who's incredibly insecure. Which, of course, this band leader definitely could be. Sounds like it.


Edit: Just saw that the OP quit the band. Good job.

Still not sure what the "2-week blackout rule" is, or how the band leader justified having such a problem with OP's roommate.
 
Update:

Quit the band and managed to remain on friendly terms too...I just said the band politics just weren't working out for me and that I felt like at this point, it's just not a good fit anymore, but that I appreciate the time I did have working with them.

Eh, why not.

Onward and upward!

late to this party, but good call!
 
The 2-week blackout is an asinine, antiquated, mythical "rule" designed by promoters who have no concept of how difficult it can be to get paid as an original NYC band. In other words, you have to book each gig 2 weeks apart or you apparently risk burning out your following. Sigh.
 
Maybe a man who's incredibly insecure.

Yeah I thought someone might misunderstand what I meant here.

Notice I said "a man who's interested in a woman," not "a man who already has a woman." There's a difference; the former faces a real threat that he may not win her posed by other available males, and the latter has only a potential threat based on variable factors specific to his situation, one of which may be his own emotional insecurities.

No, the real threat that another man might take away what you want before the beginning of a relationship is just a fact. Until you've bagged a woman that you want, every other man is a potential threat to take her away.

Look at it this way. Say I run a restaurant on the corner, and another eatery opens up right across the street. That restaurant is a real threat to my profits in that it might take away what I want; customers. That doesn't automatically mean that I'm an insecure person. I might be, but my emotional balance is not necessarily determined by this, since it's an objective fact (and not a "feeling") that what I want may be taken away from me.

In a way you're right, because before there is a relationship (even after to a lesser degree), every man's position with a desired woman (and vice-versa) is "incredibly insecure." But that has no bearing on whether those involved are emotionally insecure.

Once a strong, firm relationship is established, there should be little to no threat from other men. I'm not threatened by other men when it comes to my wife, because I know we have a strong relationship.

So let's apply it to the situation at hand. Regardless of the BL's emotional security, if -- IF -- he is "romantically interested" in OP, any other male is a potential threat to take away what he wants. Especially an unattached male sleeping in the same apartment! Does that automatically mean he is emotionally insecure? No, of course not.

"Feeling" threatened is a different animal, and yes, may be caused by insecurity, or perhaps just a heightened sense of competition. But, that's not what I was talking about.


Which, of course, this band leader definitely could be. Sounds like it.

No argument there.
 
Oh, I get it. Um, thanks..!

Okay, this brings up the thoughts which were lurking in the back of my mind during the entire course of this thread. Uh oh. But really. I'm not trying to gripe about the difficulties of being relatively young, attractive, and female, but it is a little frustrating that I always have to think to myself, "Does this guy think I'm a good bassist or does he just want to sleep with me? Or, both, somehow?" (The answer is no, by the way, so don't even) Who do these guys think I am that I would jeopardize the dynamics of a band by doing that?! It's really kinda insulting, no?

I really just wish I didn't have to worry about stuff like that. It honestly bothers me to think that I might end up in a band simply because of my looks or simply because "we've always wanted a girl bassist lol" (...really?) rather than because I might actually be a skilled bassist who would fit the bill regardless of gender or appearance.

I feel weird complaining about something that might actually be considered an advantage in some situations, but it's the truth...once you get past the superficial flattery, it becomes downright uncomfortable. I've always believed in true equality and truly being held to the same standards as the boys, barring things like physical size or other obvious biological differences. I have enough to worry about and think about as I work to improve myself as a bassist. It's irritating to have to wonder if any of the guys in the band want to get with me.

I say all this because it's something that has now gotten in the way for me more than once, and that sucks. It sucks that I had to take a serious step back from lessons with my first instructor because he confessed that he had a thing for me and it freaked me out so much that I stopped going because I wanted to learn the bass line to "Good Times" and he wanted to comment on my appearance and ask me out. It sucks that I have to deal with creepy weirdos who can't seem to understand that you shouldn't !@$ (er, defecate) where you eat, and that when you play in a band with someone, it's the same as WORKING WITH THEM AT A JOB AND WHEN YOU SLEEP WITH PEOPLE WHO YOU WORK WITH, IT IS A GUARANTEED TRAINWRECK. It sucks that at my first studio internship, my boss hit on me and because I wanted to learn, I pretended it wasn't happening and then things got weird and I quit/got fired. You know, I can handle the knowledge that if some huge guy with a linebacker build overtook me in a dark alley, I'd probably be outta luck. I can handle the antiquated stereotypes about women that are flung rampantly throughout this industry because most of them are funny and stupid. But when I can no longer enjoy my place in a band because some guy just can't keep it together around me? COME ON, REALLY?! :(

I think I really do just need to join a band full of gay guys or something...Jive was right. Um, anyway. Thanks for listening...I needed to vent...