I see where you're coming from, but I still think it's totally wrong for the BL to have gotten all hostile about OP's friend/roommate.
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when constructive criticism becomes control, next on channel 7
- Thread starter hernameisrio
- Start date
I see where you're coming from, but I still think it's totally wrong for the BL to have gotten all hostile about OP's friend/roommate.
Heh heh. Ooooh, sucks to be you don't it!
Just kidding!!
Um, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but... men are dogs.
Don't know what to tell you. The libido keeps bucking till around age 70, or so I'm told. Maybe find some guys >70 to play with???
Sorry!
@Chris. That's all fine and good but you know, I have a libido too and I don't use it as an excuse and a copout to be a lecherous weirdo. So don't give me that "boys will be boys" crap, no offense but that is not the answer.
Regarding gender and sex in music, I think you are in a very interesting place as a bass player. Like most things in life, I think instrument choice has perceived 'gender' roles and big, deep sounding' instruments I tend think of as 'male' - when I am not thinking. All I need to do is think a little and the gender stereotype fades pretty quickly in the wake of Esperanza Spalding, Tracy Wormworth, Tina Weymouth, Meshell N'degeocello - but I admit that I have my own preconceived notions about gender and instrument choice.
Why? Well I think it could be because bass tends to be a part of the foundation system of a band. The 'work-horses' in the rhythm section. While it has it's glamorous aspects, it's mostly unglamorous work meant to be done by darkly cloaked, faceless brutes toiling in the basements shoveling coal into furnaces. Superimpose a woman who wants to do such work over that hyperbolic metaphor and you get one scary (or threatening) woman.
I suppose that's a really inside out way to say I think it makes sense when women wants to play guitar or keys or sing - because those jobs are "prettier" - to put it in the most superficial sense. Melodies and harmonies - ah... how pretty... chugging rhythms, roots and fifths... deep, round tones... ug... me play bass... me hold band on back...
I also have to freely admit that I can be a little intimidated by the idea that "a girl" is better than I am at what I admit to thinking of as a male musical role. Personally, I have payed enough attention to the amazing female players listed above to work through my own issues and I have learned to have a great deal of respect for them as bass players - not as female bass players.
I have come a long way in recognizing my own sexist views in music roles - but that includes acknowledging such views exist. A lot of people won't do that. They'll automatically go with what they know to be 'true' or 'correct' and say, "anyone can play anything and gender doesn't matter". But I'd argue that even amongst women there are similar gender stereotypes in the music world. We all know bass isn't a male-only instrument, but my bet is when people hear 'bass player' they think dude first and are then surprised to learn that was a chick playing that funky groove.
Roll with it. It is true that your gender influences impressions. You don't have to let that intrude on your game. This is why I think keeping it simple is critical. Act on what's actionable - let the rest go in one ear and out the other. When someone wants something musical from you, they should be able to state what they want in simple, direct terms. If they can't, they themselves may not know what or why they want 'something undefinable' out of you - but it's on them to gain clarity and be able to express it - not you to 'do something else' until they figure out what they want.
By the same token, you should try to be as clear as you can with yourself about what you want out of your role as bass player. Some bands want that too - some don't. If you are in one that isn't getting you where you need to be don't look for things beyond the obvious to explain it. You can always find potentially plausible 'answers' to those nebulous what if's.
Why? Well I think it could be because bass tends to be a part of the foundation system of a band. The 'work-horses' in the rhythm section. While it has it's glamorous aspects, it's mostly unglamorous work meant to be done by darkly cloaked, faceless brutes toiling in the basements shoveling coal into furnaces. Superimpose a woman who wants to do such work over that hyperbolic metaphor and you get one scary (or threatening) woman.
I suppose that's a really inside out way to say I think it makes sense when women wants to play guitar or keys or sing - because those jobs are "prettier" - to put it in the most superficial sense. Melodies and harmonies - ah... how pretty... chugging rhythms, roots and fifths... deep, round tones... ug... me play bass... me hold band on back...
I also have to freely admit that I can be a little intimidated by the idea that "a girl" is better than I am at what I admit to thinking of as a male musical role. Personally, I have payed enough attention to the amazing female players listed above to work through my own issues and I have learned to have a great deal of respect for them as bass players - not as female bass players.
I have come a long way in recognizing my own sexist views in music roles - but that includes acknowledging such views exist. A lot of people won't do that. They'll automatically go with what they know to be 'true' or 'correct' and say, "anyone can play anything and gender doesn't matter". But I'd argue that even amongst women there are similar gender stereotypes in the music world. We all know bass isn't a male-only instrument, but my bet is when people hear 'bass player' they think dude first and are then surprised to learn that was a chick playing that funky groove.
Roll with it. It is true that your gender influences impressions. You don't have to let that intrude on your game. This is why I think keeping it simple is critical. Act on what's actionable - let the rest go in one ear and out the other. When someone wants something musical from you, they should be able to state what they want in simple, direct terms. If they can't, they themselves may not know what or why they want 'something undefinable' out of you - but it's on them to gain clarity and be able to express it - not you to 'do something else' until they figure out what they want.
By the same token, you should try to be as clear as you can with yourself about what you want out of your role as bass player. Some bands want that too - some don't. If you are in one that isn't getting you where you need to be don't look for things beyond the obvious to explain it. You can always find potentially plausible 'answers' to those nebulous what if's.
Hey, I'm sorry if that came across weird or lecherous or offensive. It was meant as some truth mixed with a little good-natured joshin' around.
Maybe I'm a lecherous weirdo, but I posted the same thing I would tell my adult daughters if the same question came up. You made a post that generalized about sexual energy in the workplace. I truly understand your frustration, but hey, men are attracted to attractive females, and as much as you seem to want them to be the same, men's and women's sexual wiring is totally different.. or as much as you seem to want it to not matter, it does matter. But you're right, that's not an excuse to act inappropriately on the attraction, and I certainly wasn't trying to excuse your BL's behavior. If that's the way it came across, I apologize.
I, too, don't believe in using "boys will be boys" as an excuse for inappropriate behavior. But the URGE for a boy to "be a boy" is always there, and hard to restrain sometimes.
In other words, this is a fact of life and accepting that, and figuring out how to deal with it, is probably going to be more beneficial to you than wishing it weren't so.
Maybe I'm a lecherous weirdo, but I posted the same thing I would tell my adult daughters if the same question came up. You made a post that generalized about sexual energy in the workplace. I truly understand your frustration, but hey, men are attracted to attractive females, and as much as you seem to want them to be the same, men's and women's sexual wiring is totally different.. or as much as you seem to want it to not matter, it does matter. But you're right, that's not an excuse to act inappropriately on the attraction, and I certainly wasn't trying to excuse your BL's behavior. If that's the way it came across, I apologize.
I, too, don't believe in using "boys will be boys" as an excuse for inappropriate behavior. But the URGE for a boy to "be a boy" is always there, and hard to restrain sometimes.
In other words, this is a fact of life and accepting that, and figuring out how to deal with it, is probably going to be more beneficial to you than wishing it weren't so.
Chris, if you'd get off my fire escape with your binoculars, I'd really appreciate it.
...I kid, I kid.
Okay, thanks for clarifying. Honestly, I'm not trying to come off a stone-cold prude...sometimes it's fun to goof around with the boys...and the attention certainly beats being invisible (read: awkward tomboy phase that lasted over a decade!). Due in part to my own personality and not wanting to scare my co-workers away, it's just hard to know how to handle these situations with grace. Ya know?
...I kid, I kid.
Okay, thanks for clarifying. Honestly, I'm not trying to come off a stone-cold prude...sometimes it's fun to goof around with the boys...and the attention certainly beats being invisible (read: awkward tomboy phase that lasted over a decade!). Due in part to my own personality and not wanting to scare my co-workers away, it's just hard to know how to handle these situations with grace. Ya know?
Sounds like you made the right choice quitting. Doesn't sound like the situation was going to get any better. THe guy having a problem with your housemate was definitely crossing a line too, and then for him to be like "what can I do about" is pretty obnoxious when the obvious answer is "stop doing those things I just told you are making me uncomfortable or ruining my enjoyment of the band".
As far as the attractiveness issue, I don't subscribe to the "boys will be boys" school of thought really. Yes, there are certain biological tendencies, and you should understand those and if you really want to avoid problems altogether you should try not to push those buttons. Which is not to say you can't/shouldnt look and feel good, just understand that certain actions have certain reactions that are more likely.
The best way around the whole issue though is to make sure your playing is so good that it doesn't matter. It sounds like you take your playing pretty seriously, so I think you will be fine in that regard. An attractive woman is basically always going to have an advantage over anyone else of equivalent skills in terms of getting work and exposure. You can get mad about that and rail against the injustive of it all or embrace that and use it to your advantage and realize you might be lucky to be able to get into some higher level situations faster than you probably would otherwise, which gives you opportunities for musical and professional growth if nothing else.
Oh, and I'm glad you didnt take someone's advice of flirting with the guy to find out if he's interested in you. For one, that would have been about the worst thing you could possibly do in the situation because it would just confuse EVERYTHING and things would get really awkward really fast. Two, it's just not nice to lead someone on like that, especially if you have no intention of following through, even if the guy IS a big controlling jerk.
As far as the attractiveness issue, I don't subscribe to the "boys will be boys" school of thought really. Yes, there are certain biological tendencies, and you should understand those and if you really want to avoid problems altogether you should try not to push those buttons. Which is not to say you can't/shouldnt look and feel good, just understand that certain actions have certain reactions that are more likely.
The best way around the whole issue though is to make sure your playing is so good that it doesn't matter. It sounds like you take your playing pretty seriously, so I think you will be fine in that regard. An attractive woman is basically always going to have an advantage over anyone else of equivalent skills in terms of getting work and exposure. You can get mad about that and rail against the injustive of it all or embrace that and use it to your advantage and realize you might be lucky to be able to get into some higher level situations faster than you probably would otherwise, which gives you opportunities for musical and professional growth if nothing else.
Oh, and I'm glad you didnt take someone's advice of flirting with the guy to find out if he's interested in you. For one, that would have been about the worst thing you could possibly do in the situation because it would just confuse EVERYTHING and things would get really awkward really fast. Two, it's just not nice to lead someone on like that, especially if you have no intention of following through, even if the guy IS a big controlling jerk.
Totally :returns highfive:
Hooray for OP no longer being in a band with a humongous jerkwad.
