Double Bass When do you use an amp?

[appler]

Hey, jazz guys - when do you use an amp? When don't you use an amp?

Do you plug in all the time? Never at all? Only in certain situations? I'm trying to get an idea of what works for everybody. It's curious that we all play the same instrument but we all have different ideas about amplification.

Once I saw a trio: drums (brushes), electronic keyboard, and bass in a small bookstore. The bass player was plugged into this big Peavey amp that was almost as big as the bass!

I know jazz bass players who always play with an amp, even at practices. I also know some who never use an amp, period. What's your style?

I try to avoid the amp unless the gig is really loud or the drummer is a real slammer. Sometimes I get nasty blisters but it's always worth it to get my own sound and it always swings harder without the amp even if it's not as loud.

Since bass amplification is relatively cheap, widely available and pretty good, it feels like it has become accepted and even expected that bassists plug in more often, which, to me, is totally counterintuitive - almost as though the amp were there to let us play louder all the time instead of just to give us a boost in extraordinary bass scenarios.

I'd much rather listen harder than plug into an amp. It's so much more difficult to control dynamics and my sound gets all... electricky!

 

[Adam Booker]

Since bass amplification is relatively cheap, widely available and pretty good,

This made me laugh. Sorry.

But to answer your question more seriously, IMHO I try to use amp as little as possible. It depends on the gig as well. Outdoor casual with 300 guests gets the AI and 2x10 cab, no mic. Club gig with stoopid loud drummer gets AI, 2x10, and mic for some FOH. Club date with good, sensitive, or no drummer would get the AI combo, little pick-up, more mic, and lastly, if the crowd was really good, I might just go mic'd alone. Most small group rehearsals I use the NOAMP.

As you see, the level of amplification is relative to noise that is unrelated to the making of music. SLG's get the most and aren't preferred, but homie's gotta eat.

 

[fred pratt]

I don't use an amp if I'm practicing at home or playing with just a piano player. But at any of my regular gigs in noisy restaurants or at parties, or any other time I'm playing with horns or a drummer, I use an amp.

Ideally I'd like to get to the point where I can always hear myself well enough so that an amp won't ever be necessary. Like Jimmy Blanton, and some cats on this site.

But in loud environments I find myself compensating by pressing down on the strings harder with my left hand and plucking harder with my right arm and hand. I've already experienced enough pain and discomfort to cause me to switch from Superflexibles to lighter strings. An amp helps me to get through long, loud, regular gigs without killing myself.

And I have an EA Micro 300 and Wizzy 10 which is small, light, and, if used properly, fairly unobtrusive.

 

[Paul Warburton]

We just did/are doing a six page thread, right below this thread on this issue.

 

[appler]

This made me laugh. Sorry...

As you see, the level of amplification is relative to noise that is unrelated to the making of music. SLG's get the most and aren't preferred, but homie's gotta eat.

Haha - it all depends on how you look at the glass, right? Sure, 99% of amps don't sound like your bass only louder. On the other hand, there are a whole bunch of reasonably priced amps that you can carry on the train and get a decent, loud sound. That's pretty cool.

My experience with the amp has been similar. The more the audience drinks, the more amp I need!

Thanks for sharing, guys.

We just did/are doing a six page thread, right below this thread on this issue.

Thanks, Paul - I'm less interested in HOW people amplify the bass (which PA, which bass amp, etc.) and more interested in WHEN people amplify the bass (all the time, only in venue x, etc.).

Where do you draw the amp line?

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I always use an amp when there's a drummer. If I end up not needing it, or needing it very little, I'm pleasantly surprised, but I want it there. For drummerless gigs in a new room/situation, I'll bring a small amp and try not to use it. If I've played a room/gig situation before and know that I don't need the amp, I don't bring it.

 

[Marc Piane]

I always use an amp when there's a drummer. If I end up not needing it, or needing it very little, I'm pleasantly surprised, but I want it there. For drummerless gigs in a new room/situation, I'll bring a small amp and try not to use it. If I've played a room/gig situation before and know that I don't need the amp, I don't bring it.

+1

 

[Adam Booker]

I always use an amp when there's a drummer. If I end up not needing it, or needing it very little, I'm pleasantly surprised, but I want it there. For drummerless gigs in a new room/situation, I'll bring a small amp and try not to use it. If I've played a room/gig situation before and know that I don't need the amp, I don't bring it.

+2!

I always have at least a small combo just in case.

 

[bolo]

I'm no heavy hitter, but ... same as above (per Adam, Fred, and Chris). Adam described the scalable approach including the mic / pickup blend thing very nicely.

 

[Mark Perna]

I love playing without an amp and try to do it whenever possible. Unfortunately, the guy that hires me the most insists that I use an amp even when it is just a duo (sax/bass) so I usually have one. I have played unamped with drums but only on background gigs where the volume is extra low. For any kind of real gig with drums, I always use an amp. Lately, since my switch to gut strings, the amp is on but turned really low; more for presence than volume. I rarely get to play places with a PA so no mics to FOH.

mark

 

[dar512]

I play an Eminence EUB, so always.

 

[Treyzer]

I always use an amp when there's a drummer. If I end up not needing it, or needing it very little, I'm pleasantly surprised, but I want it there. For drummerless gigs in a new room/situation, I'll bring a small amp and try not to use it. If I've played a room/gig situation before and know that I don't need the amp, I don't bring it.

Ok I think I get it! So Chris, Fingers, txstatebass and many other players use amplification when needed, different amounts of amplification based on the requirements and no amplification when it's not needed!

Hmmmmm...I think I'm having an Epiphany

 

[Ric Vice]

Hey, jazz guys - when do you use an amp? When don't you use an amp?

It's a very rare occasion that I don't have some kind of sound reenforcement. I have a VL 108 and a Walter Woods MI-400-8 on most gigs. My bass only goes out alone if it's a duo gig in a quiet environment where I can hear the instrument.

I know jazz bass players who always play with an amp, even at practices. I also know some who never use an amp, period. What's your style?

It's a personal choice I think, but a good pickup amplifier combination and common sense can go a long way to producing a great sound provided that you produce one acoustically.

I try to avoid the amp unless the gig is really loud or the drummer is a real slammer. Sometimes I get nasty blisters but it's always worth it to get my own sound and it always swings harder without the amp even if it's not as loud.

I don't believe it swings harder IMHO it just swings more naturally sans amp. Most Piezo's have a little more sustain and a slight response delay when you compare them to a mic. Blisters are sometimes just a function of developing a callus and the keeping it soft with some kind of lotion unless, you are really pulling hard and playing many times each week.

I'd much rather listen harder than plug into an amp. It's so much more difficult to control dynamics and my sound gets all... electricky!

There is what I call a threshold with most amplifier cabinet combinations. Below that level the bass still sounds like the bass it's intended to reenforce. Above that level, it loses it's character and starts to
sound like a EB.

Well, there's also something to be said for acoustic piano, acoustic bass, and drums as long as the room you are playing in is quiet. That's not usually a choice I get. My favorite drummer can do this, but even though he is great the rooms usually aren't.

 

[goodgig]

Maybe this should be a seperate thread but may be relevant. Hearing yourself, the other members of the band hearing you and the audience hearing the overall sound of the band are three different acousti-musical considerations. Has anyone ever used an in-ear monitor? The unamplified sound of my bass out front is much different (louder/nicer tone quality) than above and behind it (where I am). Maybe one of these, sans amp, would work instead of an amp for many situations. I've never tried one ($$).

 

[Marc Piane]

I actually think the in-ear monitor thing would be distracting. I truly believe that you need to hear yourself as part of the whole. Even in the studio I like to either go without cans or if I am in an iso booth a pretty even mix. I don't think you should listen to yourself specifically. Paying too much attention to just yourself pulls focus away from what you should really be striving for which is the sound of the whole. You'll hear intonation problems as they react in the overall soundscape.

In the spirit of full disclosure I lost hearing in my right ear at the age of 28 when I was already a working pro. Since then I have really had to think and evaluate how I hear in a group. The brain is a powerful thing though and I don't even notice anymore.

 

[goodgig]

Fingers, on the otherhand it might help with intonation and allow one to focus more on the music. I know what you mean about playing with the cans. For what ever reason, I think the in-ear thing might be a different experience playing live than in a studio. It might also get the band pay closer attention to the dynamics not having a bass amp on stage. I use to play a lot of trombone gigs in loud bands. I was up there blowing my brains out, begging the sound guy to mic the horns. But he said the horns were good and loud too! After night after night of sore chops, I started wearing an ear plug and - bliss! I could hear myself playing but I couldn't believe how out of tune I played! I was able to correct the pitch issues and the earplug started to be part of my "setup" - even when practicing alone. I play much more relaxed and find it easier to concentrate with an earplug. I was thinking that a similar result would happen playing bass - with a one ear monitor and no amp, assuming the bass sounds good in the room without sound reinforcement. Hopefully, this post won't start a chain of optimistic-trombone-player-with-a-beeper type jokes.

 

[petesenkowski]

This is the first mention of in-ear monitoring I've seen on the DB side. I've been reading threads on the BG live sound forum to get some in-ear information, and I've recently begun using in-ears on stage.

I'm not playing jazz with horns, it's contradance music with fiddles, guitars, and a banjo or mandolin. When the other instruments are unamplified, so am I, but when we're all plugged in and going to FOH, I need help with monitoring. The other instruments have floor wedges, but they don't want bass in the monitor mix (because I'm standing right behind them, they can hear me acoustically). The soundman doesn't want a bass amp onstage because the amplified bass muddies the mix. The dancers can hear me through the PA. The only person who can't hear me is me.

To maintain a tenuous grasp on my intonation, I've resorted to in-ears. I get the same monitor mix as the other instruments run at line level into a headphone mixer. I run my signal into the headphone mixer and through to FOH and balance the bass in-ear level relative to the other instruments. It allows me to hear myself clearly, and keeps me from digging in too hard to try and hear my bass acoustically amid the floor monitors and general venue din.

Thanks,
Pete

 

[tito mangialajo]

I always use an amp when there's a drummer. If I end up not needing it, or needing it very little, I'm pleasantly surprised, but I want it there. For drummerless gigs in a new room/situation, I'll bring a small amp and try not to use it. If I've played a room/gig situation before and know that I don't need the amp, I don't bring it.

+3
but with some drummers is possible to play without amp. and sometimes, if I know there is good monitor and PA, instead to bring the amp I bring only an EBS microbass II. with the Underwood the sound is good enough.

 

[peterpalmieri]

For me IEMs require way to much gear and requires everything to be mic'd and for the types of quartet and big band type of jazz gigs I enjoy it doesn't make sense. For those requiring larger volumes or have easy access to a dedicated IEM mix IEMs would be a great way to throw a nice mic infront of your bass and lose the bass amp....While I haven't used IEMs on a jazz gig I have done rehearsals with cans and for me it really hurts the interaction between musicians.

As for the original question; In short if there is a drummer I bring an amp, in my experiance drummers like to hear the bass and can quickly bury you, I try to keep the amp as low as possible. For me it becomes exhausting if I need to pull enough sound acoustically if the volume picks up.

Now if I had a great cannon as a bass or worked out a better projection technique I might change my tune.

 

[fdeck]

I practice without an amp, but always plug in at gigs. My bass is a dumpy old ply, and I am certainly not the strongest player in the world. With that said, I have developed a couple of hypotheses:

1. Amplification can be a two-edged sword. I have caught myself being the one driving up the overall volume of the band, and then wondering why the band is so damn loud.

2. As I incrementally improve my pickup and amp setup, I can play with seemingly less amp volume. I finally got my old Underwood fitted properly, and am very happy with it.