When "E" isn't "E" - 4 vs 5

[JoshuaTSP]

The logic and arguement stance of "the fretted E and open E, tonally sound different" doesn't quite do it for me.

Since you have four strings....aren't you saying an open D and a fretted D aren't kosher either? Or any other open vs fretted battle?

Why aren't we playing basses with a string for each note and it's half pitch? *rhetorical sarcasm*

 

[Brad Johnson]

It has very little to do with the extra five notes.. IMHO.

Sure, they're there and they give bass players a bit more low-end to play with. But I would imagine most bassists who prefer to have five strings do so for the timbre and 'tone', and for the fact that it makes more notes available without shifting. Same goes for a six string - say your fingers spanned four frets; on a four string you'd get 16 notes under your fingers, and you add another four with each string.

For example, with a fiver, you can play a two octave major scale with only the slightest of shifts. On a four string, you'd have to starting moving up the neck in the second octave. For people who need to be more fluid in their playing - for whatever reason, ie needing span a large pitch-range - having more strings is a blessing!

This is the benefit of a more than four string instrument most often overlooked IMO IME.

 

[Brad Johnson]

The logic and arguement stance of "the fretted E and open E, tonally sound different" doesn't quite do it for me.

IME they do sound tonally different. If they don't for you, I can't think of an obvious explanation for that.

Since you have four strings....aren't you saying an open D and a fretted D aren't kosher either? Or any other open vs fretted battle?

If "different" means "not kosher"...

Why aren't we playing basses with a string for each note and it's half pitch? *rhetorical sarcasm*

Strangely enough Kevin Brubaker just completed a 12 string bass and guess what the tuning is? There is a string for every note. Unfortunately it's not tuned in chromatic order. But if you're a One String Wonder, you'd just need to know which string was which and you could instantly play anything you play in any key.

 

[JoshuaTSP]

I hear the difference, that's for sure. Sometimes having the option of those various tonal qualities is advantageous.

pics of the 12 string?

 

[spade2you]

The one thing I've noticed about many who complain about floppy B strings is that they tend to try to play that string exactly like they play other strings.

To an extent, but I think playing the strings with the same attack is possible, provided the bass allows it and you use a medium light technique. On all of my 5-6 string basses, I'm able to use the same attack with good results.

 

[Brad Johnson]

To an extent, but I think playing the strings with the same attack is possible, provided the bass allows it and you use a medium light technique. On all of my 5-6 string basses, I'm able to use the same attack with good results.

No doubt. My point is that more than likely these aren't the type of players who complain about floppy Bs.


IME once I've dialed in my technique on a particular bass, most people are genuinely surprised at how hard I can hit a B string without flop. It's about figuring out how to play the instrument more than having every instrument fit your self-imposed "limitations". Also IME once you've figured it out on one bass, that experience tends to transfer well to others.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I hear the difference, that's for sure. Sometimes having the option of those various tonal qualities is advantageous.

pics of the 12 string?

Should have some soon. Here's a teaser...

 

[heliotropic]

The "just five more notes" argument is pretty weak when you consider a bass guitar doesn't have many unique notes to begin with. A standard-tuned four string, 20 fret bass has 36 unique notes. Adding another five is about a 14% increase, which is not insignificant.

 

[Ankhanu]

When I play(ed) 5-string, it's not so much about the lower 5 notes of the B (though I did tend to dip down and play a low C or D as an accent a fair bit), so much as the ability to play the same notes available on the E string further up the neck without having to shift positions. When playing beyond the 5th fret... let's say you're playing around the 7th fret on the A and D strings and want to use a G; rather than dip back to the 3rd fret on the E, you can play on the 8th fret of the B. It's a little easier and conserves motion.

Of course, the sonic character of the note is different based on string/fret choice... an open E has a different colour than a 5th fret E on the B string due to differences in the string length, thickness, etc.; while it's the same base frequency the string vibrates slightly differently, accentuating different overtones.

Now, I've switched back to playing a 4 after about a decade of playing 5, as I didn't feel the benefits of the 5 string in most situations outweighed the niceness of playing a 4. It all comes down to play style and tone.

 

[ThaLowEndTheory]

I hear the difference, that's for sure. Sometimes having the option of those various tonal qualities is advantageous.

+1
On some songs I choose to use an open note in some spots, because it just sounds better to me. Or change from playing that note fretted to playing it open in a particular spot of the song for that little bit of change. Or reverse that if you like.

On another topic, some people choose to have a zero fret so that the change between open and fretted notes is not so obvious. Some people can't hear the difference. In the end, if it's not my bass, then my opinion really doesn't matter.

 

[WalterBush]

Those extra five notes become pretty significant when band leaders start asking you to transpose a step or two down.

Being able to play comfortably in the key of Eb or D without detuning or going up nearly an octave is a big deal.

That's not accounting for the amount of gospel tunes written with a low B (and more recently, low F#) equipped bass in mind. About the only time I DON'T need a low B is when playing classic rock covers, now that I think about it.

 

[ChrisBowsman]

I have a question for all the guys who don't use the open low B:

Do any of the songs you do use the B at the 2nd fret on the A? Why not use the low B instead on occasion?

 

[bassbenj]

It has very little to do with the extra five notes.. IMHO.

Sure, they're there and they give bass players a bit more low-end to play with. But I would imagine most bassists who prefer to have five strings do so for the timbre and 'tone', and for the fact that it makes more notes available without shifting. Same goes for a six string - say your fingers spanned four frets; on a four string you'd get 16 notes under your fingers, and you add another four with each string.

For example, with a fiver, you can play a two octave major scale with only the slightest of shifts. On a four string, you'd have to starting moving up the neck in the second octave. For people who need to be more fluid in their playing - for whatever reason, ie needing span a large pitch-range - having more strings is a blessing!

Will you shut up! Hey, lets keep the extra string thing our little secret from all the teenagers here, shall we?

I mean like hey, like, who wants to pay an extra $12 for that extra string. Who wants to give up holding the bass neck like a ball bat. Who wants to actually learn how to hold a fingerboard so the shape of it doesn't matter? Everybody knows a 4 string neck is more comfy than a 5. Who needs a couple of lower notes anyway? 4 strings were good enough for Jaco. And who wants to play on anything but open strings or the first couple of frets. A bass doesn't have any tone on fretted notes. Well, at least the crappy kind of old Fenders that is the ONLY bass to play. I mean crappy pawnshop Fenders were good enough for Jaco so why not pay big money for the same crappy basses now? My test for a bass is always to check the E on the B string against an Open E. If the B string E sounds like ass and has no sustain, then I always buy that 5 string so just in case I need a low note it will match the quality of my 4 string basses. Yep 4 strings RULE. 4 strings are KEWL! NOBODY needs one or two extra lower notes. All the notes below Eb sound crappy through my crate amp anyway.

There I think that covers it.

 

[iamlowsound]

For me it is mostly about those extra 5 notes, it just ends up fitting with the keys we play in. The one position range is an added benefit.

lowsound

 

[PilbaraBass]

the diff is basically this...the shorter-scale, 5th-fret B-string E has more fundimental than the longer-scale open E-string E. Hence, the note sounds fatter. Fundimental frequency is the same, overtones are quite a bit different.
This is why it sounds "fatter" on the B.

Learning to play the same note in different places on the neck for different sounds is all part of developing as a player.

In addition, a little off topic, but: Those who have offensive opinions about 5-string basses should really learn more about the instrument and reserve comment until that time. You can have your own opinion, just watch how you express it.

 

[socialleper]

If it's about the other five notes with a low B, how many notes do you get with a high C on a six?

Technically if you are looking at JUST frequencies, it's another five in the high register.
Personally, I don't see as much use for 6 strings as 5, but that's because I don't solo, or tap, or do a lot of these crazy things that some of these guys do.
Of course ease of access to notes in a useful fashion is a good argument for a high C string if one does that sort of thing, but the C tends to sound pretty even all the way across. A low B doesn't offer much in clarity after about the 7th fret (IMO), which is why I think its more for those low notes than for convenience of playing. That's just my take on it.

 

[wazzel]

The "just five more notes" argument is pretty weak when you consider a bass guitar doesn't have many unique notes to begin with. A standard-tuned four string, 20 fret bass has 36 unique notes. Adding another five is about a 14% increase, which is not insignificant.

There are technically only 12 notes on any instrument.

All a bassist needs is 1 string and 12 frets to play in all keys.

Anything more is just options so the musician can expand the music. It is like a painter that would paint a tree. All he would need is one green and one brown, but the shades of the colors make the painting more interesting.

I play a 5er. I like going down to low D without having to drop tune. I don't venture much past there because it does not fit with what I play most of the time. I like having the option to play D on the B string 3rd fret instead of the higher versions of the note.

 

[TrooperFarva]

the diff is basically this...the shorter-scale, 5th-fret B-string E has more fundimental than the longer-scale open E-string E. Hence, the note sounds fatter. Fundimental frequency is the same, overtones are quite a bit different.
This is why it sounds "fatter" on the B.

Actually, I'd say it sounds fatter because the pickup is now closer to the vibrating center of the string, so it picks up more of the low frequencies.

 

[IntrepidCellist]

I got my 5er because I have small hands, and playing some of the stuff I wrote on the 4-string 2nd position is MUCH more comfortable stretch-wise on the low B at the 7th position. The extra "reach" is nice too, being able to reach more notes without shifting.

Also, I've become quite attached to using the low B as a thumbrest, and I miss it when playing fingerstyle on my 4-string basses. It's not so much a problem for pickstyle for me, but definitely a not-minor problem for me fingerstyle.

 

[somedumbguy]

The bass guitar only has one octave that isn't in the "guitar range." That is only 12 notes, adding four more notes (lower) for a total of 16 is a 33% increase in "unique" notes. That is a noticeable difference.

Also, if the guitar is in drop D (which is a common tuning lately) then the lowest D on the bass is also the lowest D on the guitar, and your voices cross over.

That being said, I would actually consider playing a 5 string in a studio on a song, but I would never play one live. There is too much bad opinions of five strings out there, and in my case, four really is enough for me.