When "E" isn't "E" - 4 vs 5

[Road Hat]

IIRC, an Open E (4 string) = Resonant Frequency 80 hz. Same thing for a fretted E (5th Fret - Low B 5 string) = Resonant Frequency 80 hz

What's the dif? Is the whole 4 vs 5 debate all about the lowest five notes on the low B of the five string? Otherwise, it seems that all of the other strings, any position, open vs fretted, would resonate at the same frequency on both a 4 and a 5, and possess a similar sonic signature.

Seems like a lot of hoo-haw about five little notes. Four notes, really, because I don't believe an Open Low B really works very well in most practical applications.

Okay, I agree the third position D on the B string does get overused/abused!! (guilty)

BTW - I play both 4's and 5's.

Peace.

 

[MooseLumps]

41 hz, and it's all in the tone

 

[FunkMetalBass]

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~41hz, overtones obviously exist at ~82Hz etc...

Just because you don't use a Low B doesn't mean it's not there for one to use.

It's all about tone and comfort level with regards to the neck.

Personally, I don't see the need for all the debate about which is better - I know how I feel about string numbers and that's all that matters.

 

[VroomVroom]

For me it's mostly about those five notes. (I love dropping a low 'B' ... if only more songs were played in 'B' [or 'E'] so I could do so more frequently.) However, it's also about position and timbre. Sometimes a low 'F' sounds better at the sixth fret/B than it does at the first fret/E...and licks like "Sir Duke" and "Tipitina's" sit nicely without having to move down a number of positions.

 

[lunarpollen]

Play an open A string and then a fretted A on the E string. Note the difference in tone. With a five-string, you can play an E on the B string and get the same kind of effect.

Personally, if i had a five-string, I probably would only extremely rarely play lower than low E. But I definitely would be using that B string.

 

[Road Hat]

Thanks for the clarification on the 41hz!

From a tone standpoint, will a Low B Fretted E on a five string at 41 hz consume more frequency than an Open E on either a 4 or 5? In my experience, they sound different (tone/overtones, fretted vs. open), but I don't think they necessarily occupy any greater sonic space. I've never seen the wave forms on an occiloscope, so I'm just trusting my ears and perception.


By far, my favorite bass note from a sound/feel standpoint is the 5th fret E on the low B!

 

[socialleper]

Of course it's about the other 5 notes. I remember back in the early 90's when 5 and 6 string basses really started coming on strong, the big argument for the extended range was to compete with keyboards/synthesizers in pop and R&B music. At the time a lot of purists were saying all anyone needed was four strings, but bassists losing studio gigs to really good digital equipment was a real problem.
Now lower register instruments (5 string basses, 7 string guiatrs) and down tuning are really popular in heavy music so we see them getting used together so you can use that low B-D#.

Along with this, one can say a E on a B string is the same frequency wise as an open E, but as someone pointed out, the tone is totally different. A 12th fret E is the same as a 7th fret A, but it sounds like butt; and the same goes for the B on a 5er. The string is thicker and at a difference tension, so the note has more boom and less clarity.

 

[FunkMetalBass]

Thanks for the clarification on the 41hz!

From a tone standpoint, will a Low B Fretted E on a five string at 41 hz consume more frequency than an Open E on either a 4 or 5? In my experience, they sound different (tone/overtones, fretted vs. open), but I don't think they necessarily occupy any greater sonic space. I've never seen the wave forms on an occiloscope, so I'm just trusting my ears and perception.


By far, my favorite bass note from a sound/feel standpoint is the 5th fret E on the low B!

Given the string size of the B-string vs. the string size of the E-string, you're hearing much more of the fundamental and lower overtones than the higher overtones.

If you had a zero fret and used a .125E and a .125 B, the open E and the 5th Fret B would sound extremely similar.

 

[Brad Johnson]

IIRC, an Open E (4 string) = Resonant Frequency 80 hz. Same thing for a fretted E (5th Fret - Low B 5 string) = Resonant Frequency 80 hz

What's the dif? Is the whole 4 vs 5 debate all about the lowest five notes on the low B of the five string? Otherwise, it seems that all of the other strings, any position, open vs fretted, would resonate at the same frequency on both a 4 and a 5, and possess a similar sonic signature.

Seems like a lot of hoo-haw about five little notes. Four notes, really, because I don't believe an Open Low B really works very well in most practical applications.

Okay, I agree the third position D on the B string does get overused/abused!! (guilty)

BTW - I play both 4's and 5's.

Peace.

An open B can work fine... ofttimes it depends on the operator.

The one thing I've noticed about many who complain about floppy B strings is that they tend to try to play that string exactly like they play other strings. And more than likely, if they'd hand the same bass to someone who's figured out what to do with it, the flop is no longer there. But don't worry, it'll come right back as soon as the first guy picks it up. Wild stuff.


As far as hoo haw over five little notes, little known fact: you get the same number of notes on a B string as any other string on the same bass. Hint: you can play above E on a B string. Amazing, right?

My guess is that many* people who really want to debate over this probably either haven't figured out the usefullness of it or are bored.



* if history bears out, the word "many" will magically turn to "all". True story.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Of course it's about the other 5 notes. I remember back in the early 90's when 5 and 6 string basses really started coming on strong, the big argument for the extended range was to compete with keyboards/synthesizers in pop and R&B music. At the time a lot of purists were saying all anyone needed was four strings, but bassists losing studio gigs to really good digital equipment was a real problem.
Now lower register instruments (5 string basses, 7 string guiatrs) and down tuning are really popular in heavy music so we see them getting used together so you can use that low B-D#.

Along with this, one can say a E on a B string is the same frequency wise as an open E, but as someone pointed out, the tone is totally different. A 12th fret E is the same as a 7th fret A, but it sounds like butt; and the same goes for the B on a 5er. The string is thicker and at a difference tension, so the note has more boom and less clarity.

If it's about the other five notes with a low B, how many notes do you get with a high C on a six?

 

[neptoon]

not so sure about that...the difference in string length would make for a really high tension E string relative to the B string...i think the tone would be quite different

 

[neptoon]

Of course it's about the other 5 notes. I remember back in the early 90's when 5 and 6 string basses really started coming on strong, the big argument for the extended range was to compete with keyboards/synthesizers in pop and R&B music.

that was anthony jackson's argument in the mid-70's...everyone thought he was nuts - ask carl thompson

 

[vince a]

It's about using all the notes on the B string . . . I use the hell out of that string . . . the only note that I haven't used yet is an open B . . . we just don't have a song that calls for it!

 

[FunkMetalBass]

that was anthony jackson's argument in the mid-70's...everyone thought he was nuts - ask carl thompson

Even Carl said he was nuts, and while he saw it as a lost cause, he went on and built the barely-playable bass anyway.

 

[neptoon]

The one thing I've noticed about many who complain about floppy B strings is that they tend to try to play that string exactly like they play other strings. And more than likely, if they'd hand the same bass to someone who's figured out what to do with it, the flop is no longer there. But don't worry, it'll come right back as soon as the first guy picks it up. Wild stuff.

i've been guilty of that

 

[neptoon]

Even Carl said he was nuts, and while he saw it as a lost cause, he went on and built the barely-playable bass anyway.

...and good on him

 

[silky smoove]

Say you're playing a typical I IV V blues part in E. When you're coming back to the E (I) to resolve the whole thing, dipping below the root and walking chromatically back up to it is the sexiest thing ever.

 

[fourstringbliss]

IIRC, an Open E (4 string) = Resonant Frequency 80 hz. Same thing for a fretted E (5th Fret - Low B 5 string) = Resonant Frequency 80 hz

What's the dif? Is the whole 4 vs 5 debate all about the lowest five notes on the low B of the five string? Otherwise, it seems that all of the other strings, any position, open vs fretted, would resonate at the same frequency on both a 4 and a 5, and possess a similar sonic signature.

Seems like a lot of hoo-haw about five little notes. Four notes, really, because I don't believe an Open Low B really works very well in most practical applications.

Okay, I agree the third position D on the B string does get overused/abused!! (guilty)

BTW - I play both 4's and 5's.

Peace.

Part of it is those first four notes on the B-string but it's also being able to play a low G in a different position, etc.

I've been back and forth from 4 to 5 and back again, and just don't use the lower notes enough to justify a wider neck and paying $10 - $12 extra for the B-string.

 

[punkjazzben]

It has very little to do with the extra five notes.. IMHO.

Sure, they're there and they give bass players a bit more low-end to play with. But I would imagine most bassists who prefer to have five strings do so for the timbre and 'tone', and for the fact that it makes more notes available without shifting. Same goes for a six string - say your fingers spanned four frets; on a four string you'd get 16 notes under your fingers, and you add another four with each string.

For example, with a fiver, you can play a two octave major scale with only the slightest of shifts. On a four string, you'd have to starting moving up the neck in the second octave. For people who need to be more fluid in their playing - for whatever reason, ie needing span a large pitch-range - having more strings is a blessing!

 

[ThaLowEndTheory]

It has very little to do with the extra five notes.. IMHO.

Sure, they're there and they give bass players a bit more low-end to play with. But I would imagine most bassists who prefer to have five strings do so for the timbre and 'tone', and for the fact that it makes more notes available without shifting. Same goes for a six string - say your fingers spanned four frets; on a four string you'd get 16 notes under your fingers, and you add another four with each string.

For example, with a fiver, you can play a two octave major scale with only the slightest of shifts. On a four string, you'd have to starting moving up the neck in the second octave. For people who need to be more fluid in their playing - for whatever reason, ie needing span a large pitch-range - having more strings is a blessing!

^
THIS

I have several 4 strings, two 5 stings, and 1 6 stringer. The benefit of the extra strings to me is all about playing positions, and on occasion those low notes.