I wouldn't rely on BS in such a way. Unless, I was hoping to create resentment.
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When guitarists think they know the correct notes for ya
- Thread starter bumperbass
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- guitarists know notes
Yea - that's a tough one to compromise on. You just need to decide on which version is to be used (original or another arrangement).
And then tell him "You play your little guitar, and Ill play the bass". That always makes my guitarist OR drummer smile.
And then tell him "You play your little guitar, and Ill play the bass". That always makes my guitarist OR drummer smile.
I guess I'm lucky in that our bandleader/guitarist/songwriter is all-around fantastic musician. Now, granted, he doesn't tell me what to play, outside of the occasional suggestion. I can usually find the root well enough. What typically happens is I tell him my idea and he helps me realize them with his vastly superior knowledge.
I worked with a really good guitar player for the first rehearsals with a functions band. He'd look at me and say things like "you should be playing an A under that chord, not a D". I'd tell him "I am, can't you hear I'm playing the right note? This is a five string bass, the lowest string is a B, not an E. I'm playing A on the fifth fret of the E string". He mumbled something like "oh, OK" and we'd carry on...a few minutes later and he'd stop again and tell me I was playing in the wrong key, and so on. Now this functions band had been put together by a guy on keys and his lead vocalist wife, none of us had played together before, so on the first rehearsal we were just blowing through stuff that everyone knew back to front and sideways, stuff like "Brown Eyed Girl", "Mustang Sally" etc....and it's going OK, but guitar guy kept freaking out because my fingers are not where he expects to see them. I was equally bemused, this guy had just pulled some fantastic solos and yet couldn't get his head around the fact that my bass had a B string. It seemed bizarre to me that such a good musician seemed to be listening with his eyes!
It's hard to believe he is a good Guitar player (maybe he is but definitely a bad musician) I don't trust anybody who doesn't know how music works and what's the rhythm section.
Sounds like he wasn't interested in doing a straight cover. I've played that song a boatload, and it's pretty straight forward.
Just get it close as possible to the original. Nobody listening will know the difference or even care.
Bada-bing!
Having spent the past 45 years playing classic rock covers, the original recording wins it every time!
fixed it for you
Hi bumperbass
Just get the recording (original version) and figure it out together.
The advantage of mp3 is, that you don 't have to push the cassette recorder 's rewind button,
like in the "good old days".
Progress is wonderful sometimes
Wise(b)ass
You're very wise, wisebass. I remember trying to pick my part out of a 45RPM (they used to call them records), sometimes plugged into the PA. Wherever the stylus (needle, btw) hit the record is where it was decided where you'd start from again.
That was beautifully done.
It's not such a hard song on bass, a bit more challenging for guitar players, especially those who don't often play some of the tricky chord extensions and alternate root chords.
The guitar on the original hit is a gently strummed acoustic mixed a little low (though you can hear it very clearly during the break at 3:51), but it absolutely perfectly emulates the chord progression Billy plays on the Rhodes, only without some of the keyboard flourishes. If you happen to play this in a band with no keys, that guitar part gets pumped up and has to be accurate in order for the bass line and chord prog to match well.
It's a pseudo-jazz pop piece, and some guitar players who learn this song a little too fast are very tempted to inject or substitute some chords that don't match the recording, and then if the bass player learns it as carefully and accurately as you did, the bass and guitar will clash.
It's just one of those songs, the way it was written and recorded, that's best for bass and chord players to learn and play accurately to the hit recorded version or you could easily have disagreement or a mess on your hands.
Beautifully said, yourself, coyote.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. There's places where you must do a 3-note bub, buh-buh. If you deviate from that pace and mild psyncopation, then the mortar will crumble.
Nice story, but I gotta say, this is the thing I hate most about new bands forming. It's "yeah I know that one; count it off; let's add it to the list) from everybody but most of the time it's turns out to be a mess because nobody has listened to the song for maybe 15-30 years? And they might not have learned their part to begin with.
I should have made this clear earlier, but the reason this one song is hard for him to accept any compromise in arrangement and feel, is that he used to sing and play this one way back when, and I'm convinced that he thinks highly of himself doing vocal duties. I don't know why things have to always get political in band settings, but it's like he's a Democrat and I'm a Republican, and as you know, those two do not compromise.
Seriously, I guess I'll do it his way. Sometimes there's this assumed connection estlablished that says.'Hey, uh, I spent a lot of my time on this because I'm doing the lead vocal and [insert instrument here], so we need to do it this way'.
Seriously, I guess I'll do it his way. Sometimes there's this assumed connection estlablished that says.'Hey, uh, I spent a lot of my time on this because I'm doing the lead vocal and [insert instrument here], so we need to do it this way'.
I record every gig with a Zoom H4. When a song detours from the original and I wasn't informed, I'll send a copy of the original and a copy of us playing it and ask about "questionable" parts.
Other than "audience-known original version" vs "what happened when we did it", I've run into issues when we added a guitarist/keyboardist after being 3 piece for over a decade. The new guy tells me "No, it's supposed to be like this".....um, yeah but the band and the audience(our following) are USED TO it being played the way I do(usually busier and/or with an ocassional chord).
I agree. After a song has morphed for a while, let it be.
BUT, here's another thing I've noticed that, IMO, happends in most bands (except tribute bands) is that
songs naturally morph a little bit after being played 'x' number of times over 'y' years.
Back in the day (late 60's, mid-late 70's) there were two bands in my area that set the tone for the rest of us. For instance, one band could nail 'Yes' and 'Tull' tunes and the other band was copping a
serious 'Boston' attitude. Thus, the bar had been set between boy and man. I was in one of the boy bands but got a man-band shot for 5 years until things started to fall apart in the music industry.
Some battles are not worth fighting. Does it sound overall 'ok' and can you stomach it? It's not like the majority of the audience is even gonna notice. For them it just needs to be recognizable. If this is a problem for every song, or he puts up other similar barriers elsewhere, then you may need to address it further. But if not, sometimes better to just let it go.
Maybe you can politely, or sneakily, put on the original. Nowadays all you need is a phone and a cord to plug it into the PA or whatever to put to rest most debates about any given song. "Been so long since I've heard the original... Hey, something sounds... Can you hear that? Sounds to me like the guitar is playing the alternate bass notes like the keys. Hmm. Should we try that, too?".
But if he still balks, I would probably just let it go after that.
That, and some players are just less picky. If I do a cover I either would prefer it has most of defining quirks of the original recording, or else is a totally different arrangement altogether. I like to avoid lazy covers if I can. If it's too complex for me to master the right hooks and licks, then I would rather not do it at all. My guitarist OTOH is not so picky. I'm always pointing out things he's missing on cover songs,even things that I know he could play far better than I could on guitar. Sometimes he's like "Oh yeah!". Other times he doesn't care, or just says he prefers it his way. At that point it's not worth fighting over. My relationship with him is more important than a song AFAIC.
About 15 years ago, I played a benefit gig to raise money for the local high school jazz band. I was one of the "guest artists" who sat in and played some songs with the HS band. Part of the night was all of the guest artists playing some songs without the HS band. We played head arrangements of standard jazz stuff.
Oh, I should mention that the trombone "guest artist" was good -- REALLY good. He has the Grammy awards for jazz arranging to back up his "rep".
During one song, when someone was playing a solo, he walked over to me and said something along the lines of, "In the 10th measure, 2nd beat, if you play a G there instead of an F, it will sound great. So, the next time around, I did indeed play the G instead of the F. What do you know, it was the PERFECT call and it made the whole band sound better.
Sometimes, others do know what sounds best. I should point out that the perfect advice doesn't come around all that often - especially from someone who doesn't understand music theory -- like most R&R guitar players.
Oh, I should mention that the trombone "guest artist" was good -- REALLY good. He has the Grammy awards for jazz arranging to back up his "rep".
During one song, when someone was playing a solo, he walked over to me and said something along the lines of, "In the 10th measure, 2nd beat, if you play a G there instead of an F, it will sound great. So, the next time around, I did indeed play the G instead of the F. What do you know, it was the PERFECT call and it made the whole band sound better.
Sometimes, others do know what sounds best. I should point out that the perfect advice doesn't come around all that often - especially from someone who doesn't understand music theory -- like most R&R guitar players.
Yeah, and some of the simple songs are the worst. I never played with anybody who actually tried at all to play Sweet Home Alabama or Simple Man like the record, and this includes drummers. Those are just two songs that popped out of my head, but it's the same for all styles I've been asked to join. I try to make sure I grab the recording of an older hit if someone brings it up. Then I play it at practice.
Actually, I am not immune from this. These days I can listen to a song I used to play eons ago, and realize I did not take the time to play the right parts on a lot of them. It's about maturing, I guess. When I was young, all all wanted to do was get the song in the list and play it over and over. Sounded good enough to me. Nowadays, I am more critical of myself and also more iintolerant about the inadequacies of some people that I have no choice but to play with.
