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When is two cabs too much?

#41
I've set behind a sound board on many occasions, and from a sound guy's point of view, I can tell you that they want things kept simple. Mic quality can be all over the chart. Some do a great job of being very unidirectional, but others tend to pick up things around them and in the worst cases, feedback. I hate putting a mic on a cabinet.

You don't really want to be any louder on stage than you have to be. The drummer will typically define what that is. He really has no "volume" so to speak. He can play softer, but most don't. Depends on if you have a "basher" or not. Depending on your drummer and if he's playing in a "cage", a quality single 12 or 2x10 should get you over a drummer and be a good stage monitor for you. The sound guy should also give you a monitor so you can hear the rest of the band, and if you like you can have him give you more bass in your wedge.

Going DI is the ticket, because it allows the sound guy to put you in the other players wedges. It also allows you to be mixed in and EQed to the house acoustics easier (which most of the time a band never hears....house acoustics play a big role in how you sound).

I don't like putting a mic on a cabinet. There are too many variables that come into play, but if you have your amp set up to get a specific tone, and you only have a pre-EQ line out, then you will have to mic your cab. If you do that, then you have to be very aware of level and not jack with it or the sound guy will get pissy in a hurry.

One of the things I've run into doing sound is band members trying to out do one another versus them playing together. I was running sound at a bluegrass show once, and the dobro player kept wanting more in the wedge. After the first set, the other members of the band came to me and said, "The dobro is WAY too hot in the wedges". You truly can't please everyone. The dobro player probably had bad hearing and needed in ear monitors.

It all depends on what you're doing, and there are so many variables, but my advice is to take only what you need. The biggest show I've ever run sound for was an outdoor venue with about 2000 people. No one on stage had anything other than a single cab. They all went DI to the board. Even acoustic instruments plugged in with a pickup or an instrument mic (which require phantom power, so make sure the board supports the -48v output).

What was said above is true. If you need hearing protection on stage, someone should be fired. LOL! :)

I do agree that having more drivers will stress each driver less than using only one or two.
 
#43
chadhargis said:
You don't really want to be any louder on stage than you have to be.
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Agreed. But what if the band wants to be super loud and wants to use stage volume to do it...?

The band Zoroaster, who are so loud live that for a while no club in Atlanta would let them play, uses an enormous backline for one guitar, some synth, and bass. I saw them last year in Chicago at a 400 person capacity bar. Well over 10 cabs on stage with the amps to power them. On top of the super high stage volume, the bass and guitar rigs were micd and going through the PA. Windscreens were placed over the vocal mics so they wouldn't pick up the backline so much, and the drums were set up right in front of this wall of sound and micd up, and were clear as could be. I'm assuming that PA priority was given to vocals and drums while guitar and bass signals were down which is what a lot of these super high volume bands seem to do. The band SUNN O))) definitely uses this approach, as they request it in their tech riders. Sunn also states in their riders that their stage volume is around 120-125 decibels. Both bands sounded great live.

So, aside from whatever your opinion may be about what is "too loud" (not just stage volume, overall...),what's wrong with this approach to live sound? I only ask this because every soundguy on here gives off the impression that this scenario is absolute hell for them, and I'm simply wondering why?

What was said above is true. If you need hearing protection on stage, someone should be fired. LOL! :)
Click to expand...

My two piece is fired then. :hiding:
 
#46
Metal Matt said:
Agreed. But what if the band wants to be super loud and wants to use stage volume to do it...?
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Dude, that's our kind of music. Most sound people... hell, most people don't want to experience that.

You've also got to take into consideration that there are bands that are loud for the sake of being loud, and bands that take volume into account in their songs. No one is ever going to accuse Om, Sunn, or Boris of being too loud, because that's the point. But I've definitely seen groups in other genres that I would call too loud, because the music isn't dependent on stage volume.
 
#48
BassmanPaul said:
I went the modular route when I got my first Acme B2. I ended up buying a total of four. I always take two to a gig which I have found covers me for about everything I've done to date. If I am going to play an outside gig then I'll take all four just to be conservative.
Paul
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+1

OP: Get the other cabinet.
Having the ability to move that much air in case you get a large place with no FOH or large outdoor stage is well worth it IMO.

In December we had a show in what(on the website) looked to be a LARGE, cavern-of-a room. Four ACME B2's went along(BOSE is down for preventative maintenance). When we got there, we were shown into another building where a similar room had been divided into two. No big deal, with 4 cabs the power amp is split with one channel on the floor speakers and one on the elevated speakers. With about an hour before we were done, I was asked to turn up a little. No problem. Two would have worked(used two for other December gigs) but four was excellent.
 
#50
Deluge Of Sound said:
Dude, that's our kind of music. Most sound people... hell, most people don't want to experience that.

You've also got to take into consideration that there are bands that are loud for the sake of being loud, and bands that take volume into account in their songs. No one is ever going to accuse Om, Sunn, or Boris of being too loud, because that's the point. But I've definitely seen groups in other genres that I would call too loud, because the music isn't dependent on stage volume.
Click to expand...


I know, I'm preaching to the wrong crowd here aside from a few people.

There's venues for the super loud, soundmen that deal with it, and crowds that want it. It's not really a problem for the bands mentioned, because they're the ones filling venues and venues are happy when that happens. But for any band starting out, that is of the super loud variety, dealing with soundguys most of the time is a problem so I think my question is still a valid one.


Back on topic... regardless of genre, in my opinion, I think 2 cabs always sound better than one, even with the volume down on the amp. Same reasons a lot of people feel that a 4x10 won't ever sound as good as an 8x10. As others have pointed out already, with more speakers, you can attain your desired volume without pushing the amp or speakers to the limit, and I'm all about that. Not all about pushing equipment super hard. Almost all my cabs have power ratings well beyond what they are ever getting from my amps. What do you do when you play somewhere where one cab isn't enough? Most would be inclined to turn up. What happens when turning up eventually fries a speaker or two in your one and only cab? You're out of luck buddy. ;) IMO, if you feel you need more volume, add more speakers before you start adding more power. I don't think any amount of cabs is "too much", as amps have that nifty little volume knob on them, do whatever gets the job done for you and your band. *shrugs*
 

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