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When to change EQ on Bass vs AMP?
- Thread starter Zalek
- Start date
Wherever it gets the effect I want; there's no set rule.
BTW, "amp" is short for "amplifier"; it's not an acronym, so it doesn't need to be in caps.
However, it's worth considering that each effect acts on the signal it receives. It sounds obvious, but that means that any EQ you apply before that effect will change the sound it produces. Any EQ you apply after it will act on the result.
For example, if you're using a distortion pedal and getting too much high-end fizz, you can either turn down the treble/tone on your bass so that less high-frequency sound goes through the distortion unit (to produce less fizz) or you can leave the distortion sound unchanged and turn down the treble on the amp. These will give different results, and it's a question of which one you prefer.
BTW, "amp" is short for "amplifier"; it's not an acronym, so it doesn't need to be in caps.
However, it's worth considering that each effect acts on the signal it receives. It sounds obvious, but that means that any EQ you apply before that effect will change the sound it produces. Any EQ you apply after it will act on the result.
For example, if you're using a distortion pedal and getting too much high-end fizz, you can either turn down the treble/tone on your bass so that less high-frequency sound goes through the distortion unit (to produce less fizz) or you can leave the distortion sound unchanged and turn down the treble on the amp. These will give different results, and it's a question of which one you prefer.
I normally try to dial in my tone with the amp and leave the bass flat. Not all amps can get me all the way there, so I will use the bass's tone controls as needed. Also when performing I might need to make slight tone adjustments to suit the style of various songs. This sort of change I usually make on the bass.
You can make changes anywhere you like, but IMHO it's important to know the full consequences of the changes. For example, if you take a DI from your amp and have the DI set pre EQ, in most cases you can change all of the amps settings without impacting the DI signal. If you change a setting on your bass it impacts the signal going to DI. If you set your amp's DI to post EQ, any tone changes you make on the amp or bass will change the signal from the DI. On some amps, even master volume changes will impact the level of a post EQ DI. So it's good to read the manual for your amp and learn exactly how it works.
I normally run a DI between my bass and the amps input. The idea is the get the cleanest, least processed signal to the audio tech. My philosophy is sound should be tailored for location and intended purpose and the sound I want for on stage monitoring is considerably brighter than sound that would be used for the main mix.
I set up my stage speakers as personal monitors and aim them at my head so I can hear myself really well without having to pump the stage full of volume. My goal is to keep my volume low so the PA can do a better job carrying my sound to the audience. In other words the PA is not competing with or fighting with my bass amp. Part of monitoring at a lower volume involves turning up the mids and highs so I can hear the articulation of my instrument more clearly without the lows blooming out into the hall. Of course for this sort of approach to work, you need a full PA that is capable of delivering a nice bass sound to the audience. I use a different strategy when my amp has to carry the room because the PA is inadequate.
Anyway, hope some of the ideas are interesting and useful to you.
This paragraph is exactly what I am trying to figure out. Is there any links or somewhere I can read on how changes in a chain affect the overall sound?
There probably are... but honestly, the best way of getting to grips with it is experimentation. Change something, and listen for the differences.
As you mentioned using pedals, search for "order of effects pedals" and you'll find more opinions than you know what to do with. Read enough of those to figure out what everybody agrees on, and that should help. And remember that there's no correct or incorrect order or settings, there's just opinion and preference - even if some opinions are widely shared.
The other thing is to make sure you clearly understand what each thing actually does. That'll help you reason about what order things should go in.
The other reason to just randomly try stuff is that doing things in the "wrong" order sometimes produce results that you like. Putting chorus after reverb, for example - not something most people would do, but it might just work for you.
It might also help to understand that there aren't as many types of effect as it first seems, just lots of variations on the same themes.
Filters give us EQ (graphic, parametric and tone controls), plus some other fun stuff like wah.
Delay gives us, well, delay - but also chorus, flanger and some types of reverb.
Overdrive, distortion and fuzz are what happens when you amplify a signal too far. The differences among them are the different ways each type of circuit misbehaves when you push it too hard.
Compressors are just a way of automatically reducing the volume when the signal gets too loud. Limiters are a type of compressor.
If you have an active bass with tone controls (bass, mid, treble) it serves the same purpose as the tone controls on your amplifier.
I usually opt to make changes on my bass, rather than turn my back on the audience to fiddle with the amp.
Groove Master
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- Apr 22, 2011
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After years of tone chasing, I now try to set everything to maximize the tonal response to variation in my plucking.
This means:
The active electronics are off
The tone know is all the way up
The amplifier's tube pre amp is set right on the edge of saturation/distortion.
I also use TI Jazz Flats for strings, which respond well to variation in plucking.
I'll typically bump the low mids, then set and forget.
Does this give me the tonal variety i had when I was using stomp boxes and active electronics?
Of course it doesn't. But: now the tone really is all in my hands, and taking ownership of my tone in that way makes the music more visceral.
Maybe not the answer you were looking for, but it's the one I settled on.
This means:
The active electronics are off
The tone know is all the way up
The amplifier's tube pre amp is set right on the edge of saturation/distortion.
I also use TI Jazz Flats for strings, which respond well to variation in plucking.
I'll typically bump the low mids, then set and forget.
Does this give me the tonal variety i had when I was using stomp boxes and active electronics?
Of course it doesn't. But: now the tone really is all in my hands, and taking ownership of my tone in that way makes the music more visceral.
Maybe not the answer you were looking for, but it's the one I settled on.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
I start with amp eq flat, and tone on the base all the way up (passive). I use the amp to set the eq for the room (and then leave it), and roll off the tone on the bass if I need a darker tone for a certain song.
I get my amp the way I like it, at sound check. Then, I can adjust the tone knob on my bass, if it needs a ‘tweak’ once the audience fills in. In the studio, I usually move the microphone around to change the sound, once I have the amp set to the sound I like. If I use an effect, it’s not for EQ.
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What you don't want to do is go crazy in all three places.
Bump a bunch of bass on the bass itself, punch up a bunch of bass EQ on the amp, then we get these questions about 'why does my bass sound muddy?', and 'I don't understand why this amp didn't last very long'. Give your amp a headache long enough and you will meet the God of The Blue Smoke ('what's that smell ? ? ?).
I prefer little or no EQ on the bass and let the amp do the work, generally because not all onboard pre's are all that. A lot of 'active electronics!' basses are actually passive pickups hooked up to a powered preamp so you can have cut / boost EQ, and marvelously, these very preamps will amplify any noise in the pickups at the same time! Run them through noisy pedals, it gets worse.
Use real active pickups (EMG, Bartollini, Alembic) with their preamps, and it's all nice and quiet, relatively speaking. Then let the amp do the work.
Bump a bunch of bass on the bass itself, punch up a bunch of bass EQ on the amp, then we get these questions about 'why does my bass sound muddy?', and 'I don't understand why this amp didn't last very long'. Give your amp a headache long enough and you will meet the God of The Blue Smoke ('what's that smell ? ? ?).
I prefer little or no EQ on the bass and let the amp do the work, generally because not all onboard pre's are all that. A lot of 'active electronics!' basses are actually passive pickups hooked up to a powered preamp so you can have cut / boost EQ, and marvelously, these very preamps will amplify any noise in the pickups at the same time! Run them through noisy pedals, it gets worse.
Use real active pickups (EMG, Bartollini, Alembic) with their preamps, and it's all nice and quiet, relatively speaking. Then let the amp do the work.
I set the amp for the room and the instrument for the song. I try to set pedals for whatever sound I’ll be using the most and will only make small adjustments to help fit the mix.
One thing that I don’t see discussed often enough is how to properly set an amp. It can make or break your sound and nothing done up stream with your pedals or your instrument can fix it.
One thing that I don’t see discussed often enough is how to properly set an amp. It can make or break your sound and nothing done up stream with your pedals or your instrument can fix it.
Best link i can suggest is the one that connects on either side of your head! Trust your ears. Get experience. Try it out yourself and see what you find!
Well said, get the amp dialed in right. The pedals are for enhancement, or not ?? Studio engineers say, when it sounds good, but you don't know WHY? You have arrived !
I usually start with;
Amp set relatively flat. Tone on the bass to be mostly wide open (for passives) or flat (for active)
That way, all the treble content goes to your pedals, meaning your filters and drives will react as they should. If you subtract all the treble on the bass, your pedals may not be capable of good tone (in a band context) or trigger reliably (in the context of a filter). Once you get the right tone from your pedals, you can then change the EQ on the amp to how you like it.
Personally I run a pre-amp pedal last-in-chain on my board. I do this as I like to send MY tone to the FOH, as they usually take the DI before it goes to my amp in the places I've played (well.... before all this covid stuff)
Amp set relatively flat. Tone on the bass to be mostly wide open (for passives) or flat (for active)
That way, all the treble content goes to your pedals, meaning your filters and drives will react as they should. If you subtract all the treble on the bass, your pedals may not be capable of good tone (in a band context) or trigger reliably (in the context of a filter). Once you get the right tone from your pedals, you can then change the EQ on the amp to how you like it.
Personally I run a pre-amp pedal last-in-chain on my board. I do this as I like to send MY tone to the FOH, as they usually take the DI before it goes to my amp in the places I've played (well.... before all this covid stuff)
I start amps flat because my main players have preamps. Then I swing back low midst until I like what I hear. I usually tweak the lows and highs to the room but only a little. Then move the on-board as I play. Salt to taste. And yes, this does mess things up a little when I use a passive P but it's a quick adjustment.
There isn't really a rule of thumb, but I think there are a couple of things to keep in mind:
- Your signal chain. If you go directly from your bass to the amp, it might not matter as much, but changing EQ settings on an active bass will have an effect on anything downstream from the bass, like pedals. It may also have an effect on the amp itself depending on how it treats its gain stages. Finally, setting EQ at the bass will have an effect on a signal chain outside of your amp - for example, a DI, if you are using DI from your amp to record, for example.
- The EQ configuration of your bass and amp. EQs generally have separate bands with a specific cut/boost ratio, and they may be different between your amp and your bass. For example, my active OBP-3 preamp in my SR506 has a mid control at 500hz and 750hz, while the mid control on my Markbass is at a different frequency. The EQ control for the highs is also much different between the OBP-3 and the Markbass.- the OBP-3 has a high band around 6.5khz, while the Markbass is at 10khz. This means that the two EQs give different effects separately and can be used together.
The best thing to do is use your ears, but you also want to be aware of what all of your EQs do (how they affect the sound), how they work together, and where they are in your signal chain and what they influence. Other than that, no rules of thumb - just use your ears.
Good luck.
As has been pointed out already if you have effects in between the bass and the amp then you'll get different results from EQ adjustments in different places.
But let's say you don't have effects but do have more than one bass: then it might make sense to run the amp EQ fairly flat and mostly do any required EQ adjustments on each bass, so that you don't have to adjust the amp settings every time you change basses.
But let's say you don't have effects but do have more than one bass: then it might make sense to run the amp EQ fairly flat and mostly do any required EQ adjustments on each bass, so that you don't have to adjust the amp settings every time you change basses.
Set the amp EQ for the room, set the bass EQ for the song.
As close to flat as you can get is always best. If you fiddle with all the EQ setting on the amp/bass/DI etc. you'll end up the the equipment working against itself. Sometimes it's a good idea to just null everything and start over.
These days amps, basses, and string quality are all very good. There isn't much reason to push any EQ setting very far. (beside, haven't we all decided that tone comes from the fingers? No wait, it's the wood? Or is it the fingerboard?)
As close to flat as you can get is always best. If you fiddle with all the EQ setting on the amp/bass/DI etc. you'll end up the the equipment working against itself. Sometimes it's a good idea to just null everything and start over.
These days amps, basses, and string quality are all very good. There isn't much reason to push any EQ setting very far. (beside, haven't we all decided that tone comes from the fingers? No wait, it's the wood? Or is it the fingerboard?)
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