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When were Fender's bad years?

#61
Man.. You dug this thread up from the grave.

That being said, it seems that attitudes will never change regarding the 70's Fender bass. Blah blah blah. It's funny how some get so wrapped up in how horrible an entire decade of Fender basses are. They made thousands upon thousands of them and according to some, every one is a piece of ****. It reminds me of the redneck stickers on the back of a truck that says "Ford sucks" or "Chevy sucks" or whatever. Simply put, it's plain stupidity.

I have owned dozens of US Fenders from the 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's, and an '11 and '12. Each bass is judged on its own merit. I had a 95 P I didn't like, a 74 J I didn't like, a 78 P I didn't like, a '08 P that I really didn't like, an 03 P that sounded dead, and a 99 that had a neck issue. So, I've had at least one from each decade that I let go. My favorite basses I've owned? A 70/71 parts P, my current '73 P, and an '08 CS Jazz. All get judged by feel and tone.

Every bass I've owned has been played through all tube vintage Ampegs (all up to spec) or my 100T (with NOS USA tubes) and various vintage and modern cabs (berg, Ampeg, etc), so the amplifier platforms have been very consistent. I played a bigger gig with the 08 P and a vintage SVT and fliptops sealed 4x10. Sounded like crap, and was one of my worst gigs ever. Does that make all 08's crap?? No. I had an 08 Jazz that was pretty good and an 08 Hwy 1 J that sounded real good.

Point is, is that every single bass is different. Some have it, some need a little help (pickup), and some don't have it. It doesn't matter if it's a '71, a '91, or a '11.
 
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#62
DaveB said:
Wow...touchy subject! Here's my 2 cents worth.I think there is as much legend as there is fact with Fender's "70's problems". I've owned/played both good and bad '70's basses and guitars and both good and bad pre-CBS '60's as well. I think that there was a lot more consistency in the pre-CBS days though.And here's why.

During the '70's and '80's the Japanese, in basses like everything else,were putting out competitive quality product at lower prices. Much of this market share was at Fender's expense (since they were the market leader). How much of it was bad Fender product versus good Japanese manufacturing and marketing? Who knows - I would suggest a little of both.By the way the same thing happened to the U.S. automotive business. Where do you think Toyata, Nissan etc. got their market share? Remember Harley Davidson versus Yamaha, Kawasaki etc.? Same story. When it came to production line basses Fender (and Gibson) like other American industries got caught in an apathetic quality mode vis-a-vis the Japanese. The key here is production line. Fender has always (Custom Shop aside) been a production assembly line business and competes essentially with other production line businesses.And consistency is the toughest thing for a production line to achieve. The bigger the volume the bigger the consistency problem.

And if you want to compare to non-production line basses that are at a higher price point well that's just dumb.

Funny how, in the end, virtually EVERY bass maker compares themselves to the Fender Jazz and Precision. Take a look at a Sadowsky,Lakland, G&L etc. Even the makers that at least look different ie. Spector,Yamaha, Warwick etc. still refer to their pickups as J and P style. I wonder why that is?

Well.... so what, you say! I guess the moral of the story is that when you are in the market for anything you usually consider the market leader.Fender is still the market leader.I have a '75 P that I will never sell.It is a great example of a Fender Precision...period with no qualification.As recently as three weeks ago I passed on a new Fender P at a good price because THAT ONE was not right for me.On the other hand I have played lots of new P's that WERE right. Exactly the same as it was in the '70's. There are lots of RIGHT Fender basses ...be they 60's, '70's or 2001's. You have to play a bunch just find yours...just like the other makers. By the way, I'm old enough to have been playing then and now...so I can speak from experience rather than legend.
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#66
With my experience limited to MIMs, I like to think whenever they started making standard MIMs until 2008 were Fender Mexico’s bad years. Consistency wasn’t there, quality sucked, electronics sucked, just generally bad. Sure there were some diamonds in the rough (like my old midnight wine 2001 P) but I didn’t notice a huge upgrade and quality improvement until 2008.

the current Player series are probably the best the standard MIMs have ever been so far.
 
#69
khayes1995 said:
I'm interested in buying a '73 P bass from eBay, but a friend of mine says Fender went through a few bad years in the 70's when it was owned by CBS (?!) and quality suffered. Is this true or urban legend stuff? Seeing the price of Fenders from that era, it seems people must be happy with them. Any advice?
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Fender only had about 10 bad years during the 70's - the rest were great. Seriously, after Leo sold the company, until the mid 80's, when a bunch of other folks bought the place, was a big, long, low period for quality.

Any bass from that period, you have to evaluate on its own merits, not the year it was made, At the very least, as far as their usefulness as musical instruments, you should not be paying a premium for a bass from the 70's - the kind of money that is chasing up prices of Fenders from that era is based on nostalgia, not their value as musical instruments. If you really want a good Fender, a new Fender is a much better deal at this point.
 
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#72
Love these zombie threads!

My friend Steve Soest, who worked at Fender in the 60's, thinks that 1964 was the peak year quality-wise. If I had to vote for the worst year, it might be 1979. One reason Fender quality started going downhill after the CBS acquisition was that the new ownership wouldn't pony up to replace aging and worn out tooling equipment. That's why you often see sloppy routing and large neck pocket gaps on 70's basses. They also stated using cheaper and more inferior sources for ingredients like pickup wire, and wood selection was not up to the earlier standards. That all didn't really turn around until the 1980-82 company reorganization led by Bill Schulz and Dan Smith.

As others have stated, despite all the problems on the production side there are some great 70's Fender instruments, and there were definitely some dogs from the pre-CBS era. I recently played a '74 P that I actually thought sounded better than my '62 (which is a very good one) and I've played some Jazz Basses from the late 70's that were killer.
 
#73
The best Jazz I ever played was a friend's sunburst '73 with maple board and black inlays.

The worst - my 13lb black '78 with rosewood board (3 bolt neck). Always sounded dull and lifeless. I ended up stripping the finish only to find a laminated body made from seven completely mismatched pieces of wood, all of different widths LOL (hence the solid color)

My 2012 American standard (black & rosewood) split the difference, along with my (sunburst/rosewood) MIJ '62 reissue.

The best Precision I ever played was a sunburst '75 with rosewood board. Fit, finish and sound was better than my custom shop '59 (trans white, anodized guard, rosewood board) .

The worst - a mocha '74 with rosewood board.

I've played a sunburst '70 that was good, but not great, and a sunburst '71 that was a little better than the '70.


Three best ranked:
  • '75 P
  • '14 CS '59 P
  • '73 Jazz
 
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#78
Interesting read!

I'm a Fender guy kinda by default. The '89 MIJ precision lyte I bought at 19 years old for $350 is a magic bass. I never quite understood or appreciated how lucky I got with it back in the day. I heard people hating on Fenders, but my P lyte was absolute money for me so I assumed all Fenders would be decent. Hell, the normal reaction when other bass players would try the P lyte was "I usually hate Fenders. How much do you want for this? Name your price." and I STILL didnt really grasp what that meant.

Fast forward to my pending empty nest musical re-immersion about 12 years back. As an adult I could afford to have more than just one bass. The Fender Kingman I got serves it's purpose as a grab and play home practice instrument, but its nowhere near loud enough to be heard over an acoustic guitar. The electronics in it suck, so it doesn't even work well as an amplified acoustic. I also decided a jazz would be the perfect compliment to a precision in my quiver. Went through 4 jazzes before I found the one. No matter how much I spent on the bass or upgrades or who I took them to for a "pro set up", they would have dead spots, fret buzz, and just be less fun to play than my old faithful. I'm actually surprised I stuck with Fender till I found my current Jazz, but I HAVE managed to find a new #1.

So yeah... my experience is right in line with this impressively old and resurrected thread. There ARE amazing Fenders out there, but unfortunately they are disguised as Fenders so you need to dig to find them.
 
#80
Bad years? Honestly... I couldn't tell you. But, they're production-line instruments; and, with a production-line anything; "production" is the key word. As long as it meets minimum specifications/quality standards? It goes out the door, to a music store near you... Fender, IMO, is no better - or worse - than any other instrument that fits that business model. And, I seriously doubt that Fender ever has been... "Try before you buy" is a cliche' for a reason...
Do I own one? Yes I do; and it's from a very "Bad" time; 1978. It's a left handed P-Bass, with the optional-at-the-time "A" neck. But, other than weighing 11.1lbs., it's a most excellent bass, AFAIC. It has no dead spots (that I can hear or feel); it's well balanced; and it sounds just exactly like I want a P-Bass to sound. Which is why I've owned it for 35 years... Would I buy it now? Maybe... The "A" neck would be very tempting, but a nice Squier P-Bass - and a Jazz Bass neck - would be a pretty close facsimile. And for a lot less than what the '78 would probably sell for now. When I bought it from a friend in 1988, it was just a fairly worn, very well played 10y/o Fender...
Do I want another one? No, not really. TBH, I've never played another P-Bass - of any brand - that I thought was nicer - or sounded "better", than the one I have. And there's no spot in my herd for another one, anyway. The "Fender P-Bass" spot is very well filled, thank you. The only other spot a P-Bass would fill, is "Long Scale Bolt-neck Bass" - and the '88 Tokai TB-48 Thunderbird that fills it now, ain't going anywhere...:cool:
 
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