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When were Fender's bad years?

#41
I have mixed feelings toward Fender. While I love the feel and form of P and J necks, I've never been impressed with the tone of their basses. Every one I have owned has never produced a solid bottom end or balanced highs. The Mids usually fall into Low Mid without any distinguishable high mids for definition. The result is a weak, lifeless,flabby tone with nothing but a low mid growl the instruments only capable tone.

I played a couple of 2000 USA jazz basses in a music store recently and this is what I found: 2 basses, identical in color and set up, with the exception of one having a maple fretboard and the other rosewood. The maple neck played beautifully, nice tight, snappy tone with well balanced tone on every fret. Aside form its 6 DEAD spots, yes 6, the rosewood neck sounded like crap, flat lifeless and that characteristic tone I have found in most Fenders. While it has nothing to do with the wood itself, it has everything to do with incosistency and quality control. Fender has to address these issues to remain competitive. For the $1100 these were displayed for, I could have bought a hell of a lot more bass elsewhere.
 
#42
Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield
Originally posted by Brad Johnson

Bruce, there's a simple reason as to why some people are buying 70's Fenders....they're increasing in value. They're getting older, the basses made before them are increasingly hard to find and expensive, these are the next in line. OTOH I think it'll be a loooong time before the late 80's/early 90's Fenders increase in value.
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Brad - I wasn't asking why people are buying these - what I was getting at was the intention of the buyer. My view is that you should buy a bass to play and that suits you, no matter what anybody else says about it being a "good year" or whatever. If you start looking for "investments" and aren't as knowledgeable or lucky as yourself ;)then my view is that most people are going to get ripped off - of course they can always sell on to another "sucker"!

My view is that late 90s Fenders can be just as good as a 70s bass and to just try as many basses as you can and find the best one, regardless of ideas like "investment", "vintage" or whatever.
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I guess I took this the wrong way;)

The question is why somebody buys a 70s Fender - if they're looking for a vintage "investment" bass then they're probably going to get ripped off anyway. The best idea is always to buy something that feels and sounds good to you and not to worry whether you've got a "classic".

I was responding to "why somebody buys a 70s Fender". As far as getting ripped off, anyone buying anything as an investment and not truly knowing what they're investing in is prone to being ripped off. Nothing new about that.

I personally don't have a preference as to "why" someone should buy a bass, whether it's to be played or merely collected. I don't take issue with your opinion on that.
 
#43
I'am, by my own admission, a Fender freak. I love Fender guitars and basses, always have, and always will. I've owned and played several other guitars and basses, but I always come back to Fenders.
With that said, I would like to offer my 2 cents worth on this subject.

This thread has offerd some very intresting reading, I've read opinions for and against Fender that are intelligent, and insightful, and some remarks that (IMHO) were a little off of center.
Leo Fender was a genius in his own right, and the company & product he started "is" legendary..."a plain, basic, functional musical instrument, that's easy to play, easy to repair, rugged enough to endure the hardships of the road, and affordable for the working musician".

Someone here mentioned the fact that Fender's design is out dated...
A 4X4 pick up truck with manual locking hubs, and a standard tranny is also out dated, but that's the way I like my pick up trucks. A Harley-Davidson's design is also outdated, but I wouldn't own or ride any other motorcycle.
My opinion is, Leo did it right the first time, and it need not be changed. I works for me, I like the design, it's classic and functional.
Another comment I thought was off the mark, was the one about buying an instrument because of a famous artist's use of said instrument. I'm not so high and mighty, that I don't have guitar heros or bass heros. I have in the past bought guitars based on the fact that a certain artist used one..(I'm still trying to unload a 10 ton Les Paul because of that)..it doesn't make you a bad person or a bad musician if you follow another artist's choice of tools, or even cop something from thier style of playing. Guitar heros are what got us to pick up an instrument, and play it in the first place.

Did Fender have "bad years"....in general, YES they did, for the most part they were between the early 70's and mid 80's. I would only reffer to them as bad years, because (like many other American companies) thier quality control suffered. Even though, they still made a good product, they just had a few more bad apples in the basket during those years.
Harley's "AMF" years, Gibson's "Norlin" years are much the same as Fender's "CBS" years, some good came out of it, and some bad came out of it, but being the critical American consumer's that we are, we let the bad stuff blind us to the good, and trash an otherwise great Company for a temporary weak spell in thier over all history.
I do not believe, at any time, that Fender is the best, and I will never stand on a soapbox and try and tell anyone that, but after 43 years on this earth, and being in and out of playing music during most of those years, I've grown to love and appriciate Fender's guitars and basses. They work for me, they sound good to me, and I'll probibly take one to the grave with me. If you don't like them, that's OK by me, we can still be friends, I'm not hard to get along with.....:)
 
#45
I bought my 75 Jazz new in 75. I have used this bass almost every weekend now for almost 26 years. All I have ever done to this guitar is adjust the action and change strings.My guitar is the tool of my trade and I can say from my experence it has paid for itself many, many times over. Every time I try out another brand of bass I find some that are just as good but cost three times as much. However I have not tried out all that many basses either. Don't have the need to. Guess what I'm saying is that I hear people say this guitar is better than that guitar etc....when really, IMO what makes a guitar suck is the person playing it. I know guys who think they can buy talent in a music store, the more they spend the more talent they think they have.
Sure there are some bad guitars out there but after one has been set up right it is up to the player to make it sound good. Give Victor Wooten a Sears Silvertone bass and I bet in five minutes he will have it sounding choice.
 
#46
I'd avoid Fender three-bolt necks. They can go out of tune too easily and suddenly in the middle of a tune if you whack or yank the neck the wrong way. You may sometimes see a three-bolt that's been converted to four-bolt for this reason. I don't know if the results are satisfactory or if they vary.

I like the V-series (USA) reissues. I played an early 80s 62 P RI and a 99 57 P RI and both were high quality axes. I bought the 99 off eBay. I'd probably balk at buying non-V-series Fenders that way, although I hear MIJ Fenders are fairly consistent.

Among Fender variants, I've heard G&L basses have the kind of consistency that makes blind buys less chancy; also old Yamahas. I guess I'd give these a shot if all my questions were answered right and the price was low enough to warrant the gamble. But anything else I'd have to play in person.

It's very hard to resist gambling on what seems like a great deal if money's tight, but that's when you can least afford to gamble (personal experience talking here). The more anxious you are to complete a deal, the more you need to back off and get patient.
 
#48
Well then, perhaps young Skywalker should try three-bolts until he finds one like yours (although it seems he might be stuck in a limited access situation). And maybe he should wear running shoes in case the seller should take umbrage to a few useful neck joint stability tests.
 
#49
I have a 74 Jazz and a 78 Jazz and I'm in the market for a 70's P bass with the A neck option. I must say that I have played more great sounding Fenders than bad ones but I also am a Fender Junky to. I believe its all in the hands of the beholder, example Zoomboy lent me his Warwick Corvette to play while I was laid up from surgery for three weeks and not that I hate Warwick but it didn't feel right in my hands, there were no traditinal sounds, sounded way to hifi and the neck just didn't feel right. When I got out the 78 J it was like a old friend had come home. It's not that I'm one sided because I play a RIC or my Stingray in my original band and the Fenders for the Zep tribute and the R&B stuff. I'm just not into the new exotic basses give me a good ol 15 pound J bass anyday.
 
#50
It's a very interesting thing, but aside from PJ players, Fender players appear to either be dedicated J players or dedicated P players. I'm a P player, but I called abasses.com because I was intrigued by the claim of no dead spots in a bolt-on and all the good things everyone had written about the sound and feel. Albey told me he made J basses, and P players were a very hard sell (he's a small operation and has to limit himself to J building, which is his first love, anyway). He said if a person grew up on a P with its humbucking pickup, they were unlikely to ever tolerate the faintest trace of the 60 Hz hum that comes out of a J, and with passive pickups (which apparently is the only way to get the real J sound), it comes out somehow no matter what you do. He explained how he uses an on-board preamp to minimize this, but he said it never goes away. An interesting observation, he told me that many real J players are disconcerted by total silence when they're not playing, whereas P players expect it.

I'm getting ready to have a passive 4-string built, and of course it will have some kind of P neck setup, wish it were the wide, thin one I love, but I don't think the builder does that. Anyway, I think I will try for the best of both worlds in a PJ configuration. The P will probably be an Aero, but although I would like to use a Fralin 5% overwound J bridge pickup, I think I will go with the much-overlooked DiMarzio Model J because it's wound like a P, with two coils each covering a pair of strings (I also love the adjustable pole pieces because I am a fanatic about getting perfect string output balance--no need on a P pickup, but the J being one piece and all, you get the picture). I will work off Albey's advice and accept that I am a P player and would probably never tolerate the noise of a true J pickup no matter how good it sounds.

It looks like our little world of electric bass playing pretty much splits between P and J. That's neither a tribute to Leo's genius or an indictment of those who came later. It's just the language we speak, an imaginary but clear split we perceive in the way basses sound. And unfortunately, if a sound falls outside those two categories, we as buyers largely ignore it. Too bad, there are some great "other" sounds out there; even if we think of the MMSR as a sort of single-pickup J, there are things like Alembics with filter circuitry on one hand and Lightwave and other piezo-equipped basses on the other that have been almost completely ignored.

[Edited by kurosawa on 02-12-2001 at 08:24 AM]
 
#51
Originally posted by kurosawa
/snip/...He said if a person grew up on a P with its humbucking pickup, they were unlikely to ever tolerate the faintest trace of the 60 Hz hum that comes out of a J


As a P player I can say that that is not an issue.

/
, and with passive pickups (which apparently is the only way to get the real J sound),

Well, that's the classic J sound

/
...I think I will go with the much-overlooked DiMarzio Model J because it's wound like a P, with two coils each covering a pair of strings (I also love the adjustable pole pieces because I am a fanatic about getting perfect string output balance--no need on a P pickup, but the J being one piece and all, you get the picture).




The model J sound is really rough. Check out the Ultrajazz.
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The P is chocolate chip. The J is a lemon sorbet.

Andy

 
#56
I think thier quality control is better now days, than it was back in the 50's. The product is very consistent across the board, with very few bad pieces making it to market. On top of that, they have kept thier prices far more reasonable than Gibson, or PRS ever have.

Besides, calling someone a "chump" for expressing thier opinion isn't an obligation, it's called "flaming", and really isn't fair play.....

[Edited by Tony Mig. on 02-12-2001 at 07:07 PM]
 
#58
Originally posted by Brad Johnson
I've been criticized for doing this by someone who liked generalizations but...

I have a 3 bolt 78 Jazz... with a gap! It has not moved. I've tried, it won't budge. Amazing what tight screws will do;)
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dude! i also have a 3 bolt 78 jazz bass. never had a problem with it. then again, i haven't played it in 8 years. :D

seriously, though, i used to gig the bejeezus outta that bass, and it was like a rock - awesome for a machine made 4 string :D.
 
#59
Originally posted by Tony Mig.
I think thier quality control is better now days, than it was back in the 50's. The product is very consistent across the board, with very few bad pieces making it to market. On top of that, they have kept thier prices far more reasonable than Gibson, or PRS ever have.

Besides, calling someone a "chump" for expressing thier opinion isn't an obligation, it's called "flaming", and really isn't fair play.....

[Edited by Tony Mig. on 02-12-2001 at 07:07 PM]
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I tend to agree, but I also think you would have to be a bit of a chump to buy a Fender without trying it first and checking it out ;) Every history of guitar/bass making you can read, emphasises how Fender's quality control went out of the window late 60s/early 70s and to ignore the facts is just "stoopid" IMO.
 
#60
in my opinion.. I've played several (about 5) 70s Fender Jazzes, borrowing two for country music shows... I bought a RoadWorn MEX JAzz from a nice guy on talkbass.. that bass blows any of the USA 70s basses away.. it's quite funny, but RW jazz I bought BLIND off talkbass blows away any Jazz I've ever played.. it's loud, punchy, articulate, and has no noticeable dead spots.. it growls like a Jazz should.. the 70s Jazzes I used were deep and resonant, but did not sound nearly as good as the Roadworn. I'll never get my money back on the RW bass if I sell it, but it sounds amazing. I think it's nice to have something of age.. and generally we can all use our amps to get our sounds.. but the if the RW bass were a 1969 make.. and USA made.. it would be worth $10,000 USD the way it sounds..
 

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