When Your Wrists Let You Down

[sal4bass]

Just looked at this bass on-line. Great suggestion. It looks GOOD. Very interesting. Warrants more investigation, for sure.

Salvatore ~ (the other "Sal")

Hi Salvatore. Yes, the A. Woody bass looks very nice. The neck profile would be the determining factor for me. I may try to find one of these to checkout in my local area. I can say the Fender Mustang felt great! It has a jazz profile neck, just shorter.

Since I just purchased a USA Cirrus Tiger Eye 4 prior to my wrist acting up (my wife is convinced the Cirrus 35-inch scale is WHAT caused my old wrist problems to act up), my bass budget is depleted right now.

I want to try out the Epiphone EB-0, A. Woody, and Fender Mustang so I can get a better sense of the neck profile differences on them. An SX short scale would be an inexpensive route to explore as well.

I started a short-scale bass thread in the bass forum if you are interested: Invalid Link Removed

 

[sal4bass]

I've been starting to get a little bit worried about my wrists recently, and I'm not sure whether its just paranoia after constantly seeing people talking about carpel tunnel syndrome on bass forums, or whether it could actually be the start of a problem.

Rather often now, when I pick up my bass and start to play, I get the feeling of something not being quite right in my wrists. Mostly its my fretting wrist, but sometimes I get the same in my other wrist. It doesn't exactly hurt, its more a feeling as though the wrist needs to crack... so mostly I just wave my wrists around a bit, move them around in circles until they crack and the feeling goes away, but it is happening more and more often recently.

Does that sound like something that I should do something about? Perhaps I should start doing some hand-wrist exercises before I play.

I agree with Salvatore, it can't hurt to let a doctor take a look at it.

I have been reading a lot on this subject and symptoms appear to vary between people who suffer repetitive motion injures. My wrists (primarily my fretting hand) first seemed to feel strange when I developed weakness for no reason (so I thought). I had no soreness or nerve sensations like tingling at the time, just unexplained weakness. They rapidly progressed into other symptoms, but unexplained weakness was the first I remember.

Other people report weakness, pain, numbness, burning sensations, tingling, swelling, etc. Tendinitis and Carpal Tunnel have different symptoms as well. There are tests a doctor can perform to distinguish between various issues.

 

[juneaudog]

Hello,
I am new to this forum but would like to contribute some info that hopefully will be helpful. I am a dentist and bass player and have experenced tendonitis due to overuse of my hands and forearm muscles. Through my experience, l would like to share what has worked for me.
Ice after playing and practicing. 20 minutes on and 20 off. This is the most powerful anti-inflammatory regiment available.
Stretching very gently before and after playing(before icing). This is very important because it allows muscle fibers to align properly for maximum efficancy before playing and relieves muscle tension after playing. Be mindful that over stretching causes micro tears in muscle fibers which leads to more formation of scar tissue. As a general rule, if it hurts, ease off the stretch till it doesn't. Also, yoga can beneficial because it teaches proper body alignment and is excellent at relieving tension from all parts of your body.
Warming up which brings increased circulation to the hands.
Anti-inflammatories can be very helpful but have bad side effects. One dietary suppliment that I have found to be beneficial is Turmeric. It is a potent anti-inflammatory and unlike over the counter meds, it's beneficial to the stomach and digestion. One reputable brand is Herbpharm.
Lastly and the most difficult is to rest your hands. When you feel the slightest discomfort, lay off till your hand and wrists feel normal.
Well, I hope everybody can return to playing and enjoying the bass again.

 

[tolson36]

""""I can say the Fender Mustang felt great! It has a jazz profile neck, just shorter. """

I had that problem several years ago---switched entirely to short-scale and it cleared it up almost right away. I was considering quitting at the time. Also, play it up higher (but not excessively so) with the neck tilted up more. The Mustang is as you indicated one of the narrowest necks (even among short-scales a 1.5 nut width is somewhat rare). The narrow neck helps as well as the short-scale. Also, it's strung with TI jazz flats which are a lighter tension string.

""An SX short scale would be an inexpensive route to explore as well. """

really neck-heavy in my opinion

 

[sal4bass]

""""I can say the Fender Mustang felt great! It has a jazz profile neck, just shorter. """

I had that problem several years ago---switched entirely to short-scale and it cleared it up almost right away. I was considering quitting at the time. Also, play it up higher (but not excessively so) with the neck tilted up more. The Mustang is as you indicated one of the narrowest necks (even among short-scales a 1.5 nut width is somewhat rare). The narrow neck helps as well as the short-scale. Also, it's strung with TI jazz flats which are a lighter tension string.

""An SX short scale would be an inexpensive route to explore as well. """

really neck-heavy in my opinion

Good info to know about the SX's balance- thanks!

Did you ever return to playing long-scale basses or have you stayed with the short-scale instruments?

Did your wrist issues clear up completely?

 

[sal4bass]

I am seeing a specialist tomorrow regarding the same thing...

Salvatore ~ (srptopdog)

What did you learn at your appointment Salvatore?

 

[Ole Rumblekat]

Just looked at this bass on-line. Great suggestion. It looks GOOD. Very interesting. Warrants more investigation, for sure.

Salvatore ~ (the other "Sal")

The action on the Allen Woody can be set extremely low, and still maintain great tone. Mine came that way right out of the box. And of course everything is easier on a 30" scale, especially the string tension. This is a semi hollow bass, and the ONLY knock I've heard on it is that variations in tone are somewhat limited. But plug it into a good amp, and you will be surprised at how versatile this bass becomes. Bottom line, IMO the most important quality in any instrument is that you be able to play it, and actually do. This bass is well made, beautiful, and a lot of fun to play.

 

[srptopdog]

What did you learn at your appointment Salvatore?

I went to a doctor that specializes in hand treatment exclusively. I brought in my bass and a pair of sticks, because drumming in traditional grip was bothering me a bit as well.

Long story short, I have a form of tendonitis. This is what I learned:

There are two tendons that travel through a tube or "tunnel" from the forearm to the hand. My wrist hurts right at the joint. This is where to tendons go through the tube. If the tendons get injured they will get inflamed, just like other parts of the body. The tube gives, but very little. The pain is caused becuase the tendons can not travel freely through the tube.

1. Step one for me is to take Advil (200 mg) twice a day - AM and PM for about 10 days which will gradually relieve the swelling.

2. He gave me a script to see an occupational therapist. This person is going to make me a splint that allows for the thumb, however, I do not believe I will need to wear this splint all of the time, possibly only when I sleep.

3. She is going to teach me various exercises that will relax my tendons so they can heal properly. This goes “hand-in-hand” (sorry, I couldn’t resist) with some of the posts I have read in this thread. This being said, I was reticent to try some of the exercises posted here because I want to have a controlled baseline – which is my doctor and therapist.

X-rays of my hand were taken, and they will be forwarded to my therapist. So I am guessing that the exercises she will teach me will address my specific condition, however, this is not to say that they will not be beneficial to other bass players. As I learn more about this aspect I will post to this forum. But I guess what I am saying is that people should seek professional help first. Since swelling is part of the equation, I image applying ice for periods of time would be beneficial. I will ask about this as well.

I should mention that the doctor said I could still play – however – I must avoid any playing position that induces pain or discomfort. I can usually fret fine with my 1 and 2 fingers, and I can still work on RH exercises, etc.

If the above does not work then we are going to look at one or two cortisone injections. The injections are made at the spot of discomfort and essentially are a highly concentrated form of anti-inflammatory medication.

If that doesn’t work, then step three would be surgery. The doctor said it was a very simply procedure. What they do is simply expand the tube or “tunnel” the tendons travel through.

Right now I am on step one, and I will gladly continue to post of my progress along the way.

BTW – I played a fender mustang short scale yesterday, as well as several other bases, but more on that later…

Peace,

Salvatore ~

 

[tolson36]

""Did you ever return to playing long-scale basses or have you stayed with the short-scale instruments? """"

I stayed with short-scale

"Did your wrist issues clear up completely?" YES--almost immediately and for good

 

[Sonnet]

Sal & Sal (and other folks with hand pain),
I have heard wonderful things about massage therapy for carpal tunnel. Before getting surgery, please check with a licensed massage therapist and be sure that the massage includes work on your neck, shoulder, and elbow, as well as your wrist. The median nerve (the nerve commonly associated with carpal tunnel) can be pinched at any one of these locations.
Hope all works out well for y'all.

 

[sal4bass]

The action on the Allen Woody can be set extremely low, and still maintain great tone. Mine came that way right out of the box. And of course everything is easier on a 30" scale, especially the string tension. This is a semi hollow bass, and the ONLY knock I've heard on it is that variations in tone are somewhat limited. But plug it into a good amp, and you will be surprised at how versatile this bass becomes. Bottom line, IMO the most important quality in any instrument is that you be able to play it, and actually do. This bass is well made, beautiful, and a lot of fun to play.

I wish I could find an Allen Woody bass locally to play. No one seems to stock them in this area. I'll keep looking around.

BTW, I really miss Allen Woody. I saw him live a few times and he was a great bassist. My technique is very different from his, but I really enjoyed watching him and listening to him play. So sad he left us too soon...

This evening I found a Gretsch short scale in a local store - the Junior Jet Bass - ( Invalid Link Removed ). Like the Allen Woody it has a solid body look (greenish-gray burst), but actually has hollow chambers inside according to the music store salesperson. It is light and sounded surprisingly good! I was really shocked at how much I liked the feel of the neck and sound. Tonight I also played another Fender Mustang & Epiphone EB-0. This particular Mustang was badly out of adjustment with very high action. The previous Mustang I played had much lower action and played like butter. Going into the store I thought the Fender Mustang would be the short-scale bass for me, but now I am not so sure. I'm going to go back and play them all again for comparisons. And I would still like to play an Allen Woody model if I can find one.

It's funny, I always considered short-scale basses for kids, women, and men with very short fingers/small hands. But these instruments really sound quite nice and are a blast to play, at least to me. I'd be proud to ad a short-scale to my lineup.

 

[sal4bass]

I went to a doctor that specializes in hand treatment exclusively. I brought in my bass and a pair of sticks, because drumming in traditional grip was bothering me a bit as well.

Long story short, I have a form of tendonitis. This is what I learned:

There are two tendons that travel through a tube or "tunnel" from the forearm to the hand. My wrist hurts right at the joint. This is where to tendons go through the tube. If the tendons get injured they will get inflamed, just like other parts of the body. The tube gives, but very little. The pain is caused becuase the tendons can not travel freely through the tube.

1. Step one for me is to take Advil (200 mg) twice a day - AM and PM for about 10 days which will gradually relieve the swelling.

2. He gave me a script to see an occupational therapist. This person is going to make me a splint that allows for the thumb, however, I do not believe I will need to wear this splint all of the time, possibly only when I sleep.

3. She is going to teach me various exercises that will relax my tendons so they can heal properly. This goes “hand-in-hand” (sorry, I couldn’t resist) with some of the posts I have read in this thread. This being said, I was reticent to try some of the exercises posted here because I want to have a controlled baseline – which is my doctor and therapist.

X-rays of my hand were taken, and they will be forwarded to my therapist. So I am guessing that the exercises she will teach me will address my specific condition, however, this is not to say that they will not be beneficial to other bass players. As I learn more about this aspect I will post to this forum. But I guess what I am saying is that people should seek professional help first. Since swelling is part of the equation, I image applying ice for periods of time would be beneficial. I will ask about this as well.

I should mention that the doctor said I could still play – however – I must avoid any playing position that induces pain or discomfort. I can usually fret fine with my 1 and 2 fingers, and I can still work on RH exercises, etc.

If the above does not work then we are going to look at one or two cortisone injections. The injections are made at the spot of discomfort and essentially are a highly concentrated form of anti-inflammatory medication.

If that doesn’t work, then step three would be surgery. The doctor said it was a very simply procedure. What they do is simply expand the tube or “tunnel” the tendons travel through.

Right now I am on step one, and I will gladly continue to post of my progress along the way.

BTW – I played a fender mustang short scale yesterday, as well as several other bases, but more on that later…

Peace,

Salvatore ~

Salvatoire, I am glad you now know the cause of your problem - you can work through it. Please keep us posted on how the exercises are working for you. I too have a splint I wear at night when my wrist really acts up. Knowledge is power in this case, and you now know the best course of action. You are on your way to recovery!

 

[sal4bass]

""Did you ever return to playing long-scale basses or have you stayed with the short-scale instruments? """"

I stayed with short-scale

"Did your wrist issues clear up completely?" YES--almost immediately and for good

That may be the same course I take eventually. These short-scale basses are a lot of fun to play!

Thanks for the responses and sharing your experiences. I am beginning to understand a LOT of bass players have faced these same issues.

 

[sal4bass]

Sal & Sal (and other folks with hand pain),
I have heard wonderful things about massage therapy for carpal tunnel. Before getting surgery, please check with a licensed massage therapist and be sure that the massage includes work on your neck, shoulder, and elbow, as well as your wrist. The median nerve (the nerve commonly associated with carpal tunnel) can be pinched at any one of these locations.
Hope all works out well for y'all.

Thanks Sonnet. Several websites talking about repetitive motion injuries have also recommended massage therapy as it has produced excellent results for some people.

 

[sal4bass]

Update: Tonight I decided to stop being so paranoid about the whole issue and reached for my Highway 1 Jazz. After carefully stretching I played scales gently for about 15 minutes. I then decided to play some up-tempo fingerstyle grooves. Though I still have some pain and minor numbness the more I played the better my wrist felt. I was finally REALLY playing bass again for the first time in several weeks. You know, full tilt.

I then got even braver and reached for my new (to me) Cirrus. I am paying a lot of attention to what my body tells me and plan to stop at the first signs of trouble, but even on the 35-inch scale Cirrus I was able to maintain some full tilt grooves for about 20 minutes. It was like a breath of fresh air.

I almost felt like my old self for a few minutes. But my wrists began to feel tight at that point so I stopped playing. That was about 90 minutes ago and so far no swelling or additional pain, just some tightness that stretching helps with. I'm hoping to be able to maintain this type of ritual to rebuild my endurance. It's hard to believe I used to gig 4 or 5 nights a week then go to open jams the other nights with zero wrist problems. Those were the days... LOL.

 

[tolson36]

hope the situation continues to improve for you. In my case, it was all about hand size I believe. My hands are ridiculously small and the stretches required to use a full size bass were just too much. Another advantage of this size regardless of whether you need it for wrist therapy is it will still play quicker than a long scale--just physics. I suppose that's unless you have large hands that would make the more narrow spacing of short-scales more clumsy.

I just bought my second Mustang reissue last week. A red one to go with the cream one I've had for a few years now. I love 'em both. The Mustangs are strung through the body and sound better than a whole bunch of different short-scales I've tried (such as an EBO, Gretch, Hamer, Beatle Basses, Essex).

Two others I have are a '71 Fender Musicmaster and a Squier Vista Musicmaster reissue. Both are good too. All are strung with TI Jazz flats. I'll probably try to sell one of the Musicmasters now.

""This particular Mustang was badly out of adjustment with very high action.""" Pretty easy to fix as long as the neck is good. Both of mine were easy to get low action. Highly recommend this guitar with TI jazz flats (the 32" versions). Talk about butter.

 

[Arx]

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa296/nsmar4211/acuteafflciton/100_8687.jpg
I dunno about the magnetic bracelets-gotta think having magnets near electronics isn't going to be good? Might also cause noise issues considering the magnets would be within inches of a pickup? Maybe for when you're not playing...

Magnets near electronics isn't normally a problem. You won't likely get any noise either. if you had very strong magnets and put them quite close to the strings or pickups, it might have some effect, but nothing to worry about.

I think they're just a placebo though. There's no actual evidence they do anything, and I can't think of any way that they would.

-Nick

 

[srptopdog]

Well… I have my appointment with the occupational therapist tonight, so I’ll post on that experience when I have time, but I went to Guitar Center the other day in search of short scale basses, and basses with a easy-playing action.

I first picked up an “Ocean” bass, which is GCs proprietary house brand like Carlo Rebelli is to Sam Ash. Interesting basses with active electronics, but nothing that wowed me, IMO.

I then fairly by accident picked up a Peavey Cirrus BXP (or a BPX – I can’t remember), anyway this instrument was super playable. It played practically with me just looking at it. Active electronics, neck-through construction, string-through-body; and the quilted top make this axe look great. The frets were very low, and very little pressure was needed to fret a note. Sound-wise (and I realize I might get flamed here), it just didn’t have a fat full sound IMO that I prefer vs. a passive instrument. I was playing through an Ampeg 12” combo, with everything flat, which is how I like to A/B instruments. Now I certainly could get more bass by turning up the bass EQ on the instrument, or the amp, but with running everything flat it lacked a certain fullness and character of sound I prefer in a bass tone. But I liked it anyway, and almost bought it! $599.99 was the ticket price, but as you would expect, they only had the floor model in stock, and with the minor scratches and dings I’m sure I could have negotiated the price down considerably.

Next I asked to play a Fender Mustang. The salesperson handed me the bass and I plugged it into the same amp as I used with the Peavey. Now I’m thinking, ‘there’s no way this thing is going to have a good bottom end,’… boy was I wrong about that. The Mustang blew away the Peavey for a fat, full sound, and it was punchy too, probably because of the shorter strings. Wow, I couldn’t believe it! So I learned right then that if I went with the Mustang I would be happy with the sound. Playability-wise, the action was high and would need work, but I’m sure that shouldn’t be a problem with a good set-up.

I then moved on to a Gibson short scale. I don’t remember what it was actually, but it weighed a ton, wasn’t set up well, and was over a grand! I put it back on the rack without playing a note.

So I learned a few things. Peavey makes some beautiful basses, although I’m not sure the tone fits my taste (but maybe), and the Mustang could be a great instrument for me. As far as the Allen Woody goes, I’ll need to go to the specialty bass shop if I want to play one (although I gotta travel a bit to get there, however).

Interestingly, my salesperson at GC said that he suffered from tendonitis in the past. So I’m beginning to realize that more players probably have this issue at some point in their playing careers than we think.

Thanks to all for the continued support/ideas/suggestions on this thread. It’s been a big help.

Peace…

Salvatore ~

 

[srptopdog]

Update: Tonight I decided to stop being so paranoid about the whole issue and reached for my Highway 1 Jazz. After carefully stretching I played scales gently for about 15 minutes. I then decided to play some up-tempo fingerstyle grooves. Though I still have some pain and minor numbness the more I played the better my wrist felt. I was finally REALLY playing bass again for the first time in several weeks. You know, full tilt.

I then got even braver and reached for my new (to me) Cirrus. I am paying a lot of attention to what my body tells me and plan to stop at the first signs of trouble, but even on the 35-inch scale Cirrus I was able to maintain some full tilt grooves for about 20 minutes. It was like a breath of fresh air.

I almost felt like my old self for a few minutes. But my wrists began to feel tight at that point so I stopped playing. That was about 90 minutes ago and so far no swelling or additional pain, just some tightness that stretching helps with. I'm hoping to be able to maintain this type of ritual to rebuild my endurance. It's hard to believe I used to gig 4 or 5 nights a week then go to open jams the other nights with zero wrist problems. Those were the days... LOL.

Sal ~

That's awesome man. Great news! I go to therapy tonight. I'll share results when I have time.

Praying for ya...

Salvatore ~

 

[srptopdog]

Sal & Sal (and other folks with hand pain),
I have heard wonderful things about massage therapy for carpal tunnel. Before getting surgery, please check with a licensed massage therapist and be sure that the massage includes work on your neck, shoulder, and elbow, as well as your wrist. The median nerve (the nerve commonly associated with carpal tunnel) can be pinched at any one of these locations.
Hope all works out well for y'all.

Thanks for the warning, Sonnet. I agree with you 100%. Surgery would indeed be a last resort for me... maybe.

I start therapy tonight, and I'll post results when I get some time.

Salvatore ~