When Your Wrists Let You Down

[srptopdog]

Hi


I'd like to poke my head in and mention something that has a dramatic effect for me.


Diet... Eat well...Don't underestimate this,


Stay away from Sugar and COFFEE!.


Take a really good ( which means the one that doesn't turn your pee too dark yellow) B complex and a Multi.



Aj

Andrew,

Welcome. I believe you are right on the money. Anyone else agree?

At my second visit to my therapist I was told I need to start an aerobics program, and for my next visit she is going to teach me how to monitor my pulse and what the optimum target heart rate needs to be, etc. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have learned that plentiful, oxygenated blood-flow is vital for our tendons.

No Coffee? Uh... I just quit!!

Salvatore ~

 

[sal4bass]

I just bought the Gretch Jet.

I ordered it from musicians friend. I really don't like the idea of buying a guitar without playing it, as I think they are all somewhat unique to a degree, but I can always return it if it's not up to scratch. From reading all of the reviews, and your posts, it seems that these guitars are fairly consistent. Do you think I'll be OK once I do a set-up?

I hear TIs are the deal. Many players seem to like the jazz flats. I've never played flats. How do you think TI flats would work out on the Jet?

BTW - I had "visit 2" with the therapist. I've some more info to share! I'll post an update later tonight or tomorrow.

Salvatore ~

Hi Salvatore. Congrats on the Gretsch! I think you will be just fine with it based on the sample I played locally. It was nicely set up right from the factory. (I played it at Guitar Center). I also liked the distinctive finish. It is a grayburst center with slight greenish tint that fades to black and looks very nice IMO.

I have never played flats even once, so I can't comment on them. I can't decide if I like the TI Jazz Rounds or not. They have feel great and have low tension but I am used to DRs so they sound very muted and flat to me by comparison to the Hi-Beams and Sunbeams. As mentioned in my earlier post I plan to play them for a while to see what I think over time. But I suspect I would like them better on my '62RI Jazz than on the Active Deluxe Jazz. The other issue is these are so small in scale (43-89) that they sound a little thin to me. But they are easy on my wrist.

I enjoy reading about your therapy visits. This thread has become quite informative regarding wrist/arm problems and playing bass. I wish it had been around many years ago when I was first starting out.

 

[srptopdog]

Hello All.

For those who are following this thread and any new visitors, here is some additional information I have learned regarding this topic, as well as my opinion regarding living with and managing these ailments.

Once acquired, tendinitis, tenosynovitis, carpal tunnel syndrome and other similar related ailments generally can not be completely cured. Rather, we learn to live with the condition. While it is true that some treatments can alleviate and/or cure the condition in certain cases, often, and for the majority of patients, the condition will persist. What typically happens is the condition moves from the “acute” stage to a condition of “chronic.”

Merriam-Webster’s partial definition of both terms (as it pertains to us) is:

Acute: (1): characterized by sharpness or severity <acute pain> (2): having a sudden onset, sharp rise, and short course <acute disease> (3): being, providing, or requiring short-term medical care (as for serious illness or traumatic injury) <acute hospitals> <an acute patient> b: lasting a short time <acute experiments>

Chronic: 1 a: marked by long duration or frequent recurrence : not acute b: suffering from a chronic disease 2 a: always present or encountered; especially : constantly vexing, weakening, or troubling b: being such habitually <a chronic grumbler>

Hopefully we can manage our chronic condition such that it does not hinder our ability to make music. That, short of total recovery, is our goal as I see it.

While pondering the challenge of continuing to play musical instruments, and the real possibility of living with a chronic condition of tendinitis (hopefully with very little or no discomfort), I have been thinking about the musical implications; specifically, how will this effect our ability to make music?

I grew up listening to and playing predominately jazz, classical, R&B, funk, fusion (I hate that term BTW), prog rock, and generally more &#8220;technically-challenging music.&#8221; As I began to mature I swung in the opposite direction, listening to rock, folk, pop, and country - music that was less "note dependent."

Although I have a very positive outlook regarding my prognosis, what if I (and my fellow TalkBasser&#8217;s here) can&#8217;t play as we once did? I believe there are two ways to look at any challenge. We can focus on what isn&#8217;t, or we can focus on what is. This concept is applicable in nearly any aspect of life.

Think about history. When wars were fought (even up until fairly recently in U.S. history), two armies of equal strength would come at each other head on and duke it out. At some point (and anyone that knows history better than I feel free to chime in) there was a side at a severe numerical disadvantage. If they focus on what &#8220;isn&#8217;t&#8221; then they could say &#8216;we don&#8217;t have enough soldiers to win the battle,&#8217; but if they take stock in what &#8220;IS&#8221; they realize they have experience, drive, courage, creativity, and other attributes. So rather then face the other army head-to-head, they get creative and invent ways to fight; hiding under cover; learning to lure the enemy into an ambush; discovering that smaller numbers make their troop movements quicker and more silent. Simply, what was once a weakness is now a strength.

If you folks are anything like me, then you will agree that someone will have to pull your instrument out of your cold, dead hands before you let tendinitis stand in the way of making music. Look at the drummer for Def Leopard &#8211; he plays with only one arm. How about the incredible bass player that lost his right hand in a mechanical accident (sorry, I can&#8217;t remember his name, but he&#8217;s amazing). This guy adapted. He hammer/taps the fret board.

In my case, I may have to avoid using my pinky to play bass. But I&#8217;ll work around it if that&#8217;s the case. Maybe not being able to use my pinky will force me to think in a new way musically that will uncover lines I never would have discovered otherwise. True, if you are in a cover band it&#8217;s nice to be able to play all of the exact parts, but I believe there are ways to musically work around physical limitations that will enable certain feels to develop regardless, albeit not with each exact note.

Some of my favorite bass lines actually involve very few notes. Tony Levin has a simple line on a cut from King Crimson&#8217;s &#8220;Discipline&#8221; album that is only two notes, but they are among the best two notes I&#8217;ve every heard! He does that with Peter Gabriel too. What about the Stones' "Satisfaction?" Certainly we all have our examples of simple bass lines that we love &#8211; that sound perfect. And it&#8217;s not really about the notes, yes? - but the musician who played them. That&#8217;s where the magic is, IMO.

I&#8217;m not trying to be preachy, for that is not my intent. I certainly do not believe I am offering new, breakthrough information. But I do wish to impart some hope for those that may need to hear it right now, or for those whose hope is misplaced.

I don&#8217;t know how well my treatments are going to work for me, although I am certain that even if can only use one finger to play bass I am resolved to continue making music that is meaningful and comes from the heart.

It&#8217;s What We Do.

Peace&#8230;

Salvatore ~

 

[peterbright]

Had the surgery last year on both wrists & only wish I had done it sooner.

 

[srptopdog]

Hi Salvatore. Congrats on the Gretsch! I think you will be just fine with it based on the sample I played locally. It was nicely set up right from the factory. (I played it at Guitar Center). I also liked the distinctive finish. It is a grayburst center with slight greenish tint that fades to black and looks very nice IMO.

I have never played flats even once, so I can't comment on them. I can't decide if I like the TI Jazz Rounds or not. They have feel great and have low tension but I am used to DRs so they sound very muted and flat to me by comparison to the Hi-Beams and Sunbeams. As mentioned in my earlier post I plan to play them for a while to see what I think over time. But I suspect I would like them better on my '62RI Jazz than on the Active Deluxe Jazz. The other issue is these are so small in scale (43-89) that they sound a little thin to me. But they are easy on my wrist.

I enjoy reading about your therapy visits. This thread has become quite informative regarding wrist/arm problems and playing bass. I wish it had been around many years ago when I was first starting out.

Seems like I made a good decision with the gretch - now I just have to wait because they are back ordered! The finish sounds cool and not what I expected because it basically looks black on-line.

From what I've read on this forum, some people like the ti jazz flats for that motown/james jamerson-type sound. I don't really see them being a string that will offer much top-end, or sustain for that matter, but again I've no experience wit them yet. Don't know about the rounds. I suspect you are right about moving them to your '62 passive rig.

I plan to post about my follow up visit, but maybe not until tomorrow.

S ~

 

[srptopdog]

Had the surgery last year on both wrists & only wish I had done it sooner.

Really? That's good to know. Many people seem leery of surgery, but it does work well and reliably for so many other ailments.

1.) Did you go though other treatments first?

2.) Did you have tendinitis, cysts, or something else?

Thanks,

Salvatore ~

 

[terryfunk4life]

I play tennis and used to get tendinitis but then started using athletic tape on my wrist(my coach told me to) and that fixed everything now i never play bass or tennis with out it.

 

[sal4bass]

Hey Salvatore, how is the arm coming along? Did your short scale bass arrive? I have been playing mostly my short scale and the Fender Active Jazz Deluxe with the low tension TI Jazz Rounds.

Both basses have allowed my wrist to slowly continue healing. I am not back to "normal" (doubt if I will ever be again) but I can play, though with great care so as not to aggravate the wrist/arm any more than necessary. This will be my first weekend back with the praise band at church.

I hope things are progressing nicely for you.

 

[nickn]

I've recently developed what I believe to be tendinitis in my right (plucking ) wrist. At first I was panicky, thinking that I had screwed up my hand for good, but then I found this thread -- and how glad I am that I did! I'm going to schedule an appointment with the doctor after the weekend is over, and I've been keeping myself from playing the bass so I don't screw up my condition any more than it already is.

My mom has a wrist brace from when she got tendinitis in her arm (could tendinitis be a genetic thing...? Hmmm.) Would it be a good idea for me to wear that brace?

 

[srptopdog]

Hey Salvatore, how is the arm coming along? Did your short scale bass arrive? I have been playing mostly my short scale and the Fender Active Jazz Deluxe with the low tension TI Jazz Rounds.

Both basses have allowed my wrist to slowly continue healing. I am not back to "normal" (doubt if I will ever be again) but I can play, though with great care so as not to aggravate the wrist/arm any more than necessary. This will be my first weekend back with the praise band at church.

I hope things are progressing nicely for you.

Hey Sal ~

I hope your situation continues to improve. I learning that patience is key in overcoming this ailment.

Here’s what I’ve been going through regarding physical therapy.

HAND EXERCISES
The tendons are like cables that connect our various muscles so that when a muscle contracts the cable slide through the tunnels and moves a part of our body (wrists, fingers, arms, legs, etc). It is important to keep the cable stretched out and loose. I have a about 10 stretching exercises for the arm, wrist and fingers that are designed to keep everything loose and limber. The idea is to stop to the point where you feel discomfort. I will look into how I can post some of these exercises on this forum at some point.

ULTRASOUND
Ultrasound was invented during WWI as a way to track subs. The first, crude version was so powerful that although it did indeed track subs, it also took out any plant and animal life that was in its path! Obviously it has since been refined, and comes in three flavors.

1.) The mildest form of ultrasound we are likely most familiar with as it is the type that allows us to see images inside our body. Most parents see their soon-to-be-born children this way as they grow in their mother’s womb.

2.) The second form as ultrasound operates at a higher frequency than the first. It is able to concentrate heat past the skin and to a particular spot within the body to which it is aimed.

3.) The third and highest frequency ultrasound is able to be aimed at a growth and burn it away which would need to be otherwise removed by surgery.

I have been getting # 2 ultrasound treatments on my wrist and affected area for several weeks now. The advantage is that the heat from the ultrasound can be directed to the exact spot the therapist wants the heat applied. I am told that hot packs, etc, do not really penetrate the skin effectively such that the affected area receives the heat.

FLUIDIO TREATMENTS
I’m fairly sure I’ve got the name wrong, but this device is a oblong box that you place your hand and arm in. The box is filled with ground up corn husks. Imagine very fine sand, but sand is heavy, and this stuff is very light. A fan at the bottom of the box gently moves the corn around so that it massages the affected area of the wrist. In addition, the device has a heater that heats the corn to a very warm temperature. this treatment feels great! I can tell you that if my wrist is hurting before using this device it stops hurting afterward. I usually stay in this device for about 10-15 minutes.

AEROBICS
I am told I need to get my heart rate up to a particular BPM range three times per week. If you recall from an earlier post, oxygen is very necessary to help the tendons heal properly, and the aerobics helps get oxygenated blood flowing throughout the body.

MESSAGE
My therapist massages my wrist and arm for about 10-15 minutes using a cream very similar to “Icy Hot,” which I recommend. It feels cold and hot all at the same time, but mostly hot.

I was in a hard brace for a few weeks, but now I have graduated to a soft Velcro-type brace that has some stiffness for support, but lets me have more mobility. I have been wearing the braces on-and-off, but not so much on that my muscles and tendons get stiff and short.

All of this treatment has been helping. I am getting better, but slowly. In addition, I am learning to what types of movements aggravate my tendons and I am training myself to avoid doing certain moves with my left hand. This is akin to loosing weight, and then learning how to eat differently. So I am learning how to move differently to avoid aggravating or re-injuring myself.

I played bass for about a half hour last week. There are a couple of patterns and positions that I need to avoid, but things felt OK for now. I realize I will likely need to adjust the way I play a bit, but nothing too drastic I hope.

I haven’t received the Gretch sort scale yet. Hopefully sometime next week it will ship. I can play drums just fine, however it is likely I will only play matched grip from now on, since traditional grip seems to aggravate my condition. Piano/keys are no problem, thank God. I can play hand percussion without any problems (djembe, conga, etc) – thank you Lord!

So in all, I am making progress and remain optimistic. Regardless, I will continue to make meaningful music despite my prognosis, which is TBD.

Please keep us apprised of your progress and situation. Apparently others are reading this forum seeking answers here.

Your bother in arms (err... wrists... whatever!)

Peace…

Salvatore ~

 

[JonathanD]

In response only to the title...
When your wrists let you down, its time to get a girlfriend!

 

[sal4bass]

I've recently developed what I believe to be tendinitis in my right (plucking ) wrist. At first I was panicky, thinking that I had screwed up my hand for good, but then I found this thread -- and how glad I am that I did! I'm going to schedule an appointment with the doctor after the weekend is over, and I've been keeping myself from playing the bass so I don't screw up my condition any more than it already is.

My mom has a wrist brace from when she got tendinitis in her arm (could tendinitis be a genetic thing...? Hmmm.) Would it be a good idea for me to wear that brace?

Hi Nick. Sorry to hear about your wrist problems. You are doing the right thing to go see a doctor. Hopefully nothing is too far advanced at this point. Learning to stretch carefully and adjust playing technique to reduce the inflammation can help a great deal. And yes, using a brace to isolate the injured area is helpful. If you catch this thing early you can often prevent it form becoming a chronic condition.

 

[sal4bass]

So in all, I am making progress and remain optimistic. Regardless, I will continue to make meaningful music despite my prognosis, which is TBD.

Please keep us apprised of your progress and situation. Apparently others are reading this forum seeking answers here.

Your bother in arms (err... wrists... whatever!)

Peace…

Salvatore ~

Thanks for the update Salvatore. It sounds like you have many therapy options to assist with the healing and reconditioning.

I hope your Gretsch arrives soon. It is a cool little bass for sure.

This past weekend, I played all of our church services plus a rehearsal with the praise band. I played my short scale Allen Woody Rumblekat. My wrist is far from "normal" but is healed enough to allow me to play pretty well. I have a prescription for an anti inflammatory but I can get along without it most of the time. It really felt great to be back in the band after such a long hiatus.

My wrist normally doesn't bother me too badly while playing now, but I do tend to get stiffness, pain, and swelling after I stop playing. So I am learning to keep stretching and reduce the effects of my arm and wrist tightening up.

I have the Rumblekat set up with light gauge Fender Roundwounds and a nice low action. It is very easy on my wrist. I am also still playing TI Jazz Rounds on my Fender Active Deluxe Jazz and they have the lowest tension of any string I have ever played. So between those two basses I have setups that are easy on my wrist. My biggest challenge now is carrying equipment without re-injuring the wrist. Luckily at church, I just carry my bass and plug into the house system. Trying to carry my amp to a jam session remains a problem. My wrist just can't take much in the way of straining anymore without flaring back up. I am just greatful to the Lord that I have recovered enough to play bass again! I know my limit and when I feel the wrist getting fatigued or if I feel pain, I stop. With each week I am building a little more endurance.

 

[srptopdog]

Thanks for the update Salvatore. It sounds like you have many therapy options to assist with the healing and reconditioning.

I hope your Gretsch arrives soon. It is a cool little bass for sure.

This past weekend, I played all of our church services plus a rehearsal with the praise band. I played my short scale Allen Woody Rumblekat. My wrist is far from "normal" but is healed enough to allow me to play pretty well. I have a prescription for an anti inflammatory but I can get along without it most of the time. It really felt great to be back in the band after such a long hiatus.

My wrist normally doesn't bother me too badly while playing now, but I do tend to get stiffness, pain, and swelling after I stop playing. So I am learning to keep stretching and reduce the effects of my arm and wrist tightening up.

I have the Rumblekat set up with light gauge Fender Roundwounds and a nice low action. It is very easy on my wrist. I am also still playing TI Jazz Rounds on my Fender Active Deluxe Jazz and they have the lowest tension of any string I have ever played. So between those two basses I have setups that are easy on my wrist. My biggest challenge now is carrying equipment without re-injuring the wrist. Luckily at church, I just carry my bass and plug into the house system. Trying to carry my amp to a jam session remains a problem. My wrist just can't take much in the way of straining anymore without flaring back up. I am just greatful to the Lord that I have recovered enough to play bass again! I know my limit and when I feel the wrist getting fatigued or if I feel pain, I stop. With each week I am building a little more endurance.

Hi Sal,

That's great that you're able to play again, albiet with a few adjustments to your normal style. Regarding moving equipment, or physical work in general, I am relearning how to use my wrist for things like yard work, DIY projects, etc. In some cases I can do many things as I used to do, but sometimes the simplist things will set it off and discomfort ensues.

Regarding Using Ice:
In several of my previous posts I advised againts the use of ice, since this makes the sinuvial fluid that the tendon travels through sluggish. However, my OT said it is OK to use ice AFTER playing if you are in a lot of pain, but only in this case.

Prior to playing, proper stretching, applying icy/hot, maybe even a heating pad, are all good habits to embrace so that when we play we are creating an optimum physical condition for the affected area.

I got ther OK to begin playing again for a half hour a day or less if it hurts in any way. I believe I can play with this new soft brace, so I am going to try this. Also, the simple Ace bandage with velcro might even help somewhat, so I am going to try both. I'll let you know how things work out. Meanwhile, I'm itching to get that Gretch!

Glad to hear you're playing again!

Blessings and peace to you and yours,

Salvatore ~

 

[srptopdog]

I finally got the Gretch, and I must say it is an awesome instrument for the money, and the TV Jones PU really kicks, but the bottom line is I just didn't like it enough. I returned it to GC and came home with a Fender MIK Active J24, which played well, and the neck was comfortable, but I still had some slight hand issues with it. I finally settled on an Ibanez SR405QM - a 5-er. Ibanez does make good, consistant, narrow necks with good playability. The reason to go five-string was not necessarily to grab lower notes (although I probably will at times), but I have access to a wider range of notes without having to change positions, and this approach is more comfortable to me in my condition - and - I can play more in the middle of the neck, which is also more comfortable. This particular instrument plays great, sounds very good with many tonal variations, and is comforable to wear. The strings are new, so I am going to play them out before I put on a set of DR High-Beams and then do another set-up.

The hand is getting better, albiet slowly, but I'm pleased with my progress nevertheless. I ran into a musican who is a chiropractor, and he said to make sure to eat lots of fresh fruit and veggies (which is good practice regardless) and to aviod processed foods.

 

[sal4bass]

Salvatore, that sounds like one of my bass purchasing adventures.

Congrats on the Ibanez. I love their necks. I owned one for many years and loved to play it (it was a 4 string model, I believe the SG400??? which I bought back in the late 80s or early 90s). It had a very narrow neck and was super comfy to play. It also had a good sound and a beautiful neon purple finish.

I'm glad the new bass is comfortable for you. The 5er should let you stay in the middle of the neck a good deal of the time if you need to rest your wrist.

There is nothing like a new instrument to fuel creativity.

 

[srptopdog]

Salvatore, that sounds like one of my bass purchasing adventures.

Congrats on the Ibanez. I love their necks. I owned one for many years and loved to play it (it was a 4 string model, I believe the SG400??? which I bought back in the late 80s or early 90s). It had a very narrow neck and was super comfy to play. It also had a good sound and a beautiful neon purple finish.

I'm glad the new bass is comfortable for you. The 5er should let you stay in the middle of the neck a good deal of the time if you need to rest your wrist.

There is nothing like a new instrument to fuel creativity.

Thanks man. BTW - How is your wrist coming along?

 

[peterbright]

Had both wrists operated on last year and my only regret is that I didn't do it sooner.

 

[sal4bass]

Had both wrists operated on last year and my only regret is that I didn't do it sooner.

I have a feeling that is where I will eventually end up in this saga, but the doc says I am not to that point yet. I'm glad it worked well for you. It sure would be nice to get beyond these wrist issues.

 

[sal4bass]

Thanks man. BTW - How is your wrist coming along?

I'm doing much better thanks. I am still nowhere near "normal" but I no longer feel fearful to play for an hour or two. I pay very close attention to how my wrists feel at all times and avoid activities that bother them. Cutting grass with the high vibration sets them off every time so I have others do that now. My biggest concern remains the inability to lift heavy objects without causing problems for a couple of days. That is no problem when I play through a house amp but when I get back to needing to haul my own gear around it may become an issue quickly. The use of a hand truck should help. The main focus now is to prevent further injury and the doc tells me it may take a few more months to get back to where I was prior to the latest injury.

I've maintained extra light gauge strings on all my basses. When hand bothers me the most I play the short scale Allen Woody for lowest string tension and spacing which does help. But on a good night like last night I played my Cirrus with no problems so hopefully I can continue to build endurance over time.

I wish I had known about these types of chronic repetitive motion injuries when I got started in the late 1970s to have avoided all this. But being able to play again is a great feeling and I truly enjoy every minute of playing now.