When Your Wrists Let You Down

[srptopdog]

Hi everyone,

I've been reading very carefully all the previous posts and would like to thank everyone for all the advice.

I' ve ben struggling for a year now with different kinds of pain in my arms, wrists and hands.

I've been playing bass for a couple of years, before that drums, and this year I started playing guitar.

This year's guitar playing got me a tendinitis (at least that's what I thought at the time), and a year ago when I got more serious about bass and practiced a lot of scales I got numbness and tingling in my hands and fingers.

Plus every time I play I get this this weakness in my wrists, just like if they were broken or something.

Tired of all this I went to the doctor, he suggested a neurologists, who booked me for an EMG (in June), meanwhile I went to a physiotherapist, who diagnosed not one but 2 carpal tunnel syndrome. He said I do not have tendinitis.

At least I know what I have now, and will do everything I can to minimize the pain associated to it. lots of great info here thanks to everyone.

I'll share some in the future when I find what works specifically for me.

So far releasing pressure on the fretting hand has helped alot, I noticed a lot of pressure was applied with my thumb, as if to compensate for weakness in other fingers. I even tried NOT touching the back of the neck with my thumb to see what happens. I was surprise to notice that the bass had a tendency to pivot near my waist. So all in all my fretting hand would push the neck towards me, this had me using the thumb to counteract this, and my other hand and arm would try to stabilize everything on the other end ...a real recipe for cts ...

It sounds like you are on the right track. Adjusting your playing style and instrument position is a good way to minimize discomfort from CTS or tendonitis.

Keep us informed regarding your progress.

Best,

Salvatore ~

 

[EagleMoon]

I've also been suffering from tendinitis in my left thumb and numbness in my right hand little and ring fingertips. I think the right hand stuff might be coming from my neck though, since I have a couple of bone spurs there. But I find that when my tendinitis is really flaring up, that my wrists pop when I bend them. Does anybody else get this?

 

[oyobass]

Man, this is a scary topic. I have had troubles off and on with this, too.

What helped me a lot is kind of counter-intuitive. I dropped my strap level down to where the top edge of the bass body is about waist level. Then I kind of wrap my fingers around the neck to get to the notes.

Now I can play without having my wrists bent at an awkward angle. It isn't considered "proper technique," but I can play without it hurting so much.

I discovered this when, for fun, I dropped the bass down to a 'metal" height, and discovered it helped.

This is not medical advice, just what has worked for me. I just hope you can find some relief and continue to play for your church.

God bless, bro!

oyo

 

[fourstringdrums]

Best of luck with this. I got diagnosed with CTS at the end of 2006 and had to stop playing bass as a result. I'm a drummer too and I use crutches for a disability, so it didn't make many things easily.

Thankfully a big problem for me was my job and once I eliminated that, things got a bit better. I was still able to play drums despite it and after selling all my bass gear, I'm now, within the last week, just getting back to playing bass. I have all low end gear now, but just happy to be back.

 

[Marley's Ghost]

I went to see the Orthopedist last week. He x-rayed my arm and found nothing wrong. He also happens to be a bass player!
He said my forearm pain could be referred from my neck He then played some air bass with head pointed down to demonstrate. a possible cause. So I need to get a neck adjustment and remember to stretch as much as possible.

 

[Andrew Jones]

Just letting you guys know I have some very health issues friendly basses for sale real cheap. Check the For sale section.



Aj

 

[srptopdog]

I've also been suffering from tendinitis in my left thumb and numbness in my right hand little and ring fingertips. I think the right hand stuff might be coming from my neck though, since I have a couple of bone spurs there. But I find that when my tendinitis is really flaring up, that my wrists pop when I bend them. Does anybody else get this?

My wrists pop a lot, regardless if my tendonitis is acting up or not. They pretty much always have as an adult. I don't think it's bad however. My therapist said poping can relieve some tension.

Heat is a good way to relax the wrist area and to ease the discomfort of tendonitis. Various stretching exercies are also good. You want to keep your tendons loose and stretched out. Ice is OK to use if you played a gig and your wrist is really in pain, but just for a time to reduce the swelling, along with taking some ibuprofen, but ice on a regular basis is not what should be used as a means of preventive therapy.

Ice contracts the tendons and stiffins the fluid the tendons are traveling through in your wrist, which can also cause pain and discomfort. The fluid (sinovial spl? fluid) is what that's called. Heat, on the other hand (pun intended) will of course keep the fluid flowing smooth in that area. This is why it is important to use heat and to stretch well before playing. This thread is a good source of info.

My apologies for being out of the loop lately.

Salvatore ~

 

[EagleMoon]

My wrists pop a lot, regardless if my tendonitis is acting up or not. They pretty much always have as an adult. I don't think it's bad however. My therapist said poping can relieve some tension.

Heat is a good way to relax the wrist area and to ease the discomfort of tendonitis. Various stretching exercies are also good. You want to keep your tendons loose and stretched out. Ice is OK to use if you played a gig and your wrist is really in pain, but just for a time to reduce the swelling, along with taking some ibuprofen, but ice on a regular basis is not what should be used as a means of preventive therapy.

Ice contracts the tendons and stiffins the fluid the tendons are traveling through in your wrist, which can also cause pain and discomfort. The fluid (sinovial spl? fluid) is what that's called. Heat, on the other hand (pun intended) will of course keep the fluid flowing smooth in that area. This is why it is important to use heat and to stretch well before playing. This thread is a good source of info.

My apologies for being out of the loop lately.

Salvatore ~

I find this very interesting. Heat doesn't help my tendinitis at all. Ice seems to be the only thing that helps the pain. Heat just seems to make it worse for some reason.

 

[mrjim123]

Sal, sorry to hear about your condition. I'm 57, and no stranger to tendonitis. Fortunately, I can still play, but I'm thankful for each day.

I've been sitting here trying to think of some advice to give you that hasn't already been given. No easy answers, for sure. I asked myself if - with the only other option being not playing at all - if I would try to relearn bass as a left hander. I decided I'd have to give it a shot.

Man, it wouldn't be easy. You'd need a lefty bass for starters. And what a learning curve. Of course, I'd ask a specialist if there was any hope that I wouldn't develop the same problem in the right wrist.

Whatever you decide, good luck. I wish you the best.

 

[sal4bass]

Glad to see this thread is still alive. Since I last checked in, my wrist has improved steadily, but I still run into days when the simplest movements seem to create a flare-up without reason. I think that is just the nature of chronic tendinitis.

I have been playing regularly again with the praise band at church. When my wrist feels tender, I normally play my short scale Allen Woody Rumblekat or Fender Jazz with TI Jazz Rounds for lower string tension. I have fallen in love with the TI's but they require a very light touch with low action.

Bottom line (I know, I know) is to remain patient, use good stretching and warm-up exercises, and figure out the best plan of action to address the tendinitis when it flares up. (For me that is Advil and limiting my playing until the episode subsides).

I still do not feel comfortable getting back into a full-time band at this point, but am hoping to work back up to it eventually if possible. By playing with the praise band at church I don't have to travel with amps which helps save wear and tear on my wrists. And I always feel it is a good use of my limited musical energies .

 

[rokkitt]

Yah,

I had an overuse problem

I put epsom salts and pads and wrapped my fore arms for a few hours.

But as of recent, my wrist hurts.

Read this thread, gonna apply heat and stretch a lot

Thanks for the information!

Allen

 

[wisemonkey]

You really have my sympathy - I have had bad injury problemas myself in the past. I was just getting my career off the ground when similar problems struck. I never totally stopped playing, partly because I couldn't , I really needed the money from gigs, but I had to give up double bass, give up practicing, and suffer pain and further inflammation every time I did a gig.
One thing I found out was that doctors have all sorts of opinions about these kind of injuries but they are not necessarily experts on the problem. Terms like tendonitis and RSI are bandied about but they are not very specific and there are various opinions about the best treatment. One GP told me I should consider giving up playing (He didn't seem to get the fact that I had spent years of my life training as a musician!) I'm so glad I didn't take his advice - but it wasn't easy. The best help i got was from an osteopath who gave me lots of deep massage to my arms and helped straighten out the nec kand shoulders. Also I saw a hand surgeon called Ian Winspur, he wrote a booked called the Musician's hand, he's really an authority on this stuff.
He told me if I kept doing the rehabilitation exercises, worked on playing effortlessly etc and kept generally fit and healthy it would take about 5 years to clear up. He was right - He also told me to keep playing, if you stop your hand gets weaker, therefore more likely to get injured when you start again.
it was a really tough time for me, but slowly I turned it round and now I'm working all the time on electric and upright bass.
I know other people who had injury problems and were advised to stop playing for long periods of time - I suspect that is the wrong advice. People do have their careers destroyed by injury and it's tragic.
I can't say that the answers for you will be the same as for me, but ice packs, massage, learning to play with a light touch, playing sitting down (without a strap - if your bass doesn't balance well maybe change it) - these are all things that can help.
Rehabilitation is slow process, but hang in there. And best of luck!

 

[wisemonkey]

Just another point to add about applying heat before playing - be very careful about this! Obviously being warmed up is good - but applying heat can increase the bloodflow in the wrist - if your bloodvessels and tendons are squeezed due to swelling and inflammation in the carpal tunnel then this will make it worse. Ice will help to reduce swelling, thus reducing friction in the carpal tunnel. I can only speak from my own experience but I found that heat made things worse - and stretching can also be damaging if you stretch too far - keep it gentle.
Sorry to be conflicting with some of the other advice here - but unfortunately there is not a one size fits all solution to these type of injuries, you really have to research it to figure out what works for you

 

[srptopdog]

Just another point to add about applying heat before playing - be very careful about this! Obviously being warmed up is good - but applying heat can increase the bloodflow in the wrist - if your bloodvessels and tendons are squeezed due to swelling and inflammation in the carpal tunnel then this will make it worse. Ice will help to reduce swelling, thus reducing friction in the carpal tunnel. I can only speak from my own experience but I found that heat made things worse - and stretching can also be damaging if you stretch too far - keep it gentle.
Sorry to be conflicting with some of the other advice here - but unfortunately there is not a one size fits all solution to these type of injuries, you really have to research it to figure out what works for you

I read your first post, and now this one. Indeed you make any good points. In my case, I have tendonitis not carpel tunnel, but they do (along with other similar ailments) get grouped together often.

I went through a process of PT as well. The application of heat (for tendonitis) was part of my physical therapy (but not before playing, however), along with massage, ultrasound treatments, and even aerobic conditioning. Stretching (and before playing too), but yes I agree, this is a sweeping generalization, and it is best to have the guidance of a professional therapist.

These are ailments that with the proper treatment, may never go away completely, but can be managed successfully so that we can continue to play. After reading this thread for a few weeks I too sought the leading hand surgeon in my area, and had x-rays and an evaluation. I then followed up with the physical therapy sessions.

Perhaps the most important point to be made here is to seek professional medical advice, get opinions, and don't be afraid to ask questions if things don't seem right. The OP has a story here of a doctor visit that was a disaster. Fortunately he found a competent doc shortly thereafter.

I wouldn’t say I'm totally healed, but I'm playing again and making progress.

Salvatore ~

 

[srptopdog]

Glad to see this thread is still alive. Since I last checked in, my wrist has improved steadily, but I still run into days when the simplest movements seem to create a flare-up without reason. I think that is just the nature of chronic tendinitis.

I have been playing regularly again with the praise band at church. When my wrist feels tender, I normally play my short scale Allen Woody Rumblekat or Fender Jazz with TI Jazz Rounds for lower string tension. I have fallen in love with the TI's but they require a very light touch with low action.

Bottom line (I know, I know) is to remain patient, use good stretching and warm-up exercises, and figure out the best plan of action to address the tendinitis when it flares up. (For me that is Advil and limiting my playing until the episode subsides).

I still do not feel comfortable getting back into a full-time band at this point, but am hoping to work back up to it eventually if possible. By playing with the praise band at church I don't have to travel with amps which helps save wear and tear on my wrists. And I always feel it is a good use of my limited musical energies .

Hey Sal, good to hear from you again.

Your symptoms are similar to mine. I too would say that it is activites other than playing bass that seem to argravate my condition now. I am still learning what moves to aviod with my hand, and yes, even the simplist of movement can cuase a flare-up. But... making progress and still learning. God is good!

Peace...

Salvatore ~

 

[srptopdog]

Sal, sorry to hear about your condition. I'm 57, and no stranger to tendonitis. Fortunately, I can still play, but I'm thankful for each day.

I've been sitting here trying to think of some advice to give you that hasn't already been given. No easy answers, for sure. I asked myself if - with the only other option being not playing at all - if I would try to relearn bass as a left hander. I decided I'd have to give it a shot.

Man, it wouldn't be easy. You'd need a lefty bass for starters. And what a learning curve. Of course, I'd ask a specialist if there was any hope that I wouldn't develop the same problem in the right wrist.

Whatever you decide, good luck. I wish you the best.

Hey thanks for pitching-in to this thread. It has become a good sourse of "starting points" from which to seek treatment, and it illustrates that these ailments are a serious matter to musicians, and the degree in which they vary.

Not sure if you are the "Jim" from your quote... but I do like it just a bit, me thinks!

 

[rokkitt]

Hi everyone,

I am becoming more informed from this thread--and as a result, more aware of the condition of my wrists, mostly my left.

I was playing last night, and my left wrist became painful enough to cause me to stop for a minute or two and stretch.

I probably didn't warm up as much as I should have, and was playing a long scale bass, and was down in the lower register---hmmm won't do that again without proper warmup.

But, with the information here, I was informed enough to recognize the issue, and then stop so as not to aggrevate the issue.

Now, I did put my lef wrist in a epsom salt wrap, with hot compresses, and that helped the pain totally disappear. This was before my playing incident, as I have had a dull ache in my left wrist for a few weeks.

Well, about 2 hours later, my aches came back to my wrist. So, the epsom salts help, but are not a final cure for me.

I am going to try some heat, and then some ice, today.

Man, this is frustrating, and I was just getting settled into my playing. I am in one band now --studio onlu fun jammin'-- and have a call back for another band tomorrow -sat- night.

The other item that is scary, is that you can do damage that creates scar tissue and then causes more damage! I want to address this issue in my wrist before it gets to this point.

And, in addition to the heat and cold, I am going to go on a 10 day cycle of advil, in the am and the pm like a previous poster has stated.

I hope I cought this early enough, don't know what I would do without bass in my life.....prolly have to go back to skydiving as my hobby!


Allen

Aka

Rokkitt

 

[rokkitt]

so....

put lighter strings on the '88 4003 ric...

40-95 GHS boomers....

wwow!

they sound very growly .....yum!

so right now, it is...

ghs boomers --- dynamite alloy--- nickel plated steel wrap



THE LIGHTER STRINGS DEFINATELY HELPED.....need a very light touch, and less stress on the wrist.....


al

 

[Ammioz77]

Hey Sal, good to hear from you again.

Your symptoms are similar to mine. I too would say that it is activites other than playing bass that seem to argravate my condition now. I am still learning what moves to aviod with my hand, and yes, even the simplist of movement can cuase a flare-up. But... making progress and still learning. God is good!

Peace...

Salvatore ~

Peace and Blessings to you all!

Novice bassist here but I use my hands and wrists alot between typing and holding an 8 pound camera (I'm a videographer/producer/editor) and also vegan chef (lots of knife work) so my wrists are always doing triple duty. I've begun to feel a little soreness back by the elbow in my picking hand so I'm hyper sensitive to it. I've noticed and had it confirmed (bassics magazine interview with billy sheehan) that diet too plays a big role in that. Billy was smart and talked to a chiropractor who addressed him holistically. He helped him target some diet changes - knocked him off a lot of the carbs and he immediately noticed the difference. Diet, quietly kept, does have everything to do with the body's physical performance as well as its ability to heal itself. I would talk with a good naturapath if there is one in your area, or a good sports medicine type.

my two shekels...

 

[moody]

have you tried playing with a pick? maybe not your style but if you try it 50/50 maybe it will ease the pain.

I am suprised that no one else has mentioned this.

I suffer from Tendonitis with no carpel tunnel syndrome in my right wrist. I have used stretches, massage, exercise and ibuprofen to control the pain but by far the best things I have done for my use have been playing with a pick and using a mouse left handed.

Using a pick along with a relatively high bass has helped my wrist incredibly. I have also recently gone to a smaller and lighter bass - although not short scale - but that has also helped.

I have had these problems for several years now and no longer play finger style (I still can but only for maybe 10 minutes maximum) but I can play rehearsals and gigs for hours on ends several evenings a week with a pick no problem. Sure it takes a while to get into it at first but after a while you realise that it isn't that much of a difference in the end effect. The bass part is still there and you can still do all the same runs, it's just played differently.