Where are we with powered (active) bass cabs?

[bucephylus]

Nah. What I want to do is take my favorite preamp to shows with great PA support, and then take the same preamp and a powered cab to shows where I need a little oomph on stage.

I'm not sold on the idea. Just tossing it around.

First, I share your opinion that the concept makes sense. ICE modules conceptually should not add a whole lot of weight to a cab.

But, I can see a few issues.

First, the Class D technology is getting quite capable; but, the designs are still improving. So, a permanently installed ICE module kind of makes the cab prone to obsolescence. A way around that would be to make the cab accept a plug in ICE module with some kind of standard profile. That way modules could be updated as the designs improve; or blown modules could be readily replaced.

OTOH, implementing some kind of plug in standard makes the cab design just that much more complicated; and I suspect that it would add weight to the cab just to accept such a module. Also establishing such a standard would require design input from a critical number of manufacturers.

As you have stated, the proliferation of pedal board based preamps is creating a market demand that may well drive improvements in powered cab availability. Seems though that some of the design elements to make that practical are a few years out. But, I could see it happening. Just makes sense.

 

[two fingers]

First, I share your opinion that the concept makes sense. ICE modules conceptually should not add a whole lot of weight to a cab.

But, I can see a few issues.

First, the Class D technology is getting quite capable; but, the designs are still improving. So, a permanently installed ICE module kind of makes the cab prone to obsolescence. A way around that would be to make the cab accept a plug in ICE module with some kind of standard profile. That way modules could be updated as the designs improve; or blown modules could be readily replaced.

OTOH, implementing some kind of plug in standard makes the cab design just that much more complicated; and I suspect that it would add weight to the cab just to accept such a module. Also establishing such a standard would require design input from a critical number of manufacturers.

As you have stated, the proliferation of pedal board based preamps is creating a market demand that may well drive improvements in powered cab availability. Seems though that some of the design elements to make that practical are a few years out. But, I could see it happening. Just makes sense.

Agreed on all points. I haven't delved into any particulars regarding ICE modules. But, clearly, an access panel and fairly easy swap out would be necessary. How does the output of those modules work mechanically speaking? Is it a solder point?

Yeah it wasn't my intent to over simplify the process. You make some great points.

 

[bucephylus]

Agreed on all points. I haven't delved into any particulars regarding ICE modules. But, clearly, an access panel and fairly easy swap out would be necessary. How does the output of those modules work mechanically speaking? Is it a solder point?

Yeah it wasn't my intent to over simplify the process. You make some great points.

Oh, I'm pretty sure that plug and play connectors for output could be implemented. I don't think that's a technical barrier. A significant cab maker just has to be the first to implement; and, then the market needs to have positive response. It's an implementation barrier.

 

[MaHei]

I was hoping to use a Mesa Subway DI to drive a GK powered extension cab, but I believe that @mmbongo said in another thread that the sound quality was not optimal.

For what it is worth, I am very happy with the Subway Bass DI driving a small Yamaha dbr 10 monitor to its full potential. A surprisingly capable setup.

 

[two fingers]

For what it is worth, I am very happy with the Subway Bass DI driving a small Yamaha dbr 10 monitor to its full potential. A surprisingly capable setup.

Yeah just to get all sides of the technical argument I may have to try something similar. A friend has two JBL 15" powered wedges for sale. They can be run as mains or monitors (of course). I might have to do a trial run using those as floor monitors first set and maybe stack them for the second set. I'm open minded about the whole thing. But a dedicated "voiced" bass cab would be great in my view. And I'm talking about a consumer grade regular bass cab like a nice Mesa or GK. I'm not in the market for $1,800- $3,000 bass cabs. I'm sure they are nothing short of outstanding but most of us just aren't there.

 

[two fingers]

Oh, and if it turns out to be a feasible as I think it is, I might start with a fEarful kit and install it in there to see how it goes. That way I can experiment with access panels and mounting along the way before I even finish the cab. I've been looking for a good excuse to do a project with my dad this summer anyway. This may be the ticket. He has great wood working tools and it getting up in years. And this would be a good hang project.

 

[Passinwind]

Oh, and if it turns out to be a feasible as I think it is, I might start with a fEarful kit and install it in there to see how it goes. That way I can experiment with access panels and mounting along the way before I even finish the cab. I've been looking for a good excuse to do a project with my dad this summer anyway. This may be the ticket. He has great wood working tools and it getting up in years. And this would be a good hang project.

You might want to read Dave Green's take on that over on his forum. He intentionally left in wiggle room in the cab volumes for people who might want to go that route, but has since recanted and highly recommends not doing it. But if you do, be sure to look at how many implementations do not use a sub-chamber for the amp, which the maker of the plate amp I have specifically warns against doing. To be more clear, that manufacturer wants you to expose the back of the amp to the air movement from the woofer(s) for cooling purposes.

 

[bucephylus]

You might want to read Dave Green's take on that over on his forum. He intentionally left in wiggle room in the cab volumes for people who might want to go that route, but has since recanted and highly recommends not doing it. But if you do, be sure to look at how many implementations do not use a sub-chamber for the amp, which the maker of the plate amp I have specifically warns against doing. To be more clear, that manufacturer wants you to expose the back of the amp to the air movement from the woofer(s) for cooling purposes.

Exactly right. The ICE modules need active cooling. As Charlie says, one way MAYBE to get that is to place the module within the port venturi flow. In fact, it's a bit interesting that the Acoustic 361 cab had the power amp placed exactly in that spot.

 

[two fingers]

You might want to read Dave Green's take on that over on his forum. He intentionally left in wiggle room in the cab volumes for people who might want to go that route, but has since recanted and highly recommends not doing it. But if you do, be sure to look at how many implementations do not use a sub-chamber for the amp, which the maker of the plate amp I have specifically warns against doing. To be more clear, that manufacturer wants you to expose the back of the amp to the air movement from the woofer(s) for cooling purposes.

Thank you for the response!

Let me ask you this. It may seem really put of the box, but how would it affect "things" to put the ICE or other amp module actually in the port? For instance, the cab pictured below could possibly have an ICE module installed in the rear section of the side port/vent allowing air to circulate freely, I would think. Your thoughts?

Again, I'm just spitballing here and fully prepared to yield to experts like you guys.

 

[Passinwind]

Thank you for the response!

Let me ask you this. It may seem really put of the box, but how would it affect "things" to put the ICE or other amp module actually in the port? For instance, the cab pictured below could possibly have an ICE module installed in the rear section of the side port/vent allowing air to circulate freely, I would think. Your thoughts?

Again, I'm just spitballing here and fully prepared to yield to experts like you guys.

Let's ping @[SIZE=3]DukeLeJeune[/SIZE] and @agedhorse for starters then...

 

[two fingers]

Let's ping @DukeLeJeune and @agedhorse for starters then...

Yeah I would welcome that if they have the time. There may be something I hadn't considered...but I bet those two wouldn't leave anything on the table and would have the knowledge to see it from more angles than I am equipped to view it from.

 

[Passinwind]

Yeah I would welcome that if they have the time. There may be something I hadn't considered...but I bet those two wouldn't leave anything on the table and would have the knowledge to see it from more angles than I am equipped to view it from.

Most of the plate amps I'm familiar with have cooling fins that are meant to be exposed to the air outside the cab, and oriented in a specific way. I've seen some with internal fans meant to vent out of the cab as well. So before even getting into port flow/redirection/tuning issues and then potential mechanical vibration issues related to the amp itself, we might want to identify your candidate amps.

 

[two fingers]

Most of the plate amps I'm familiar with have cooling fins that are meant to be exposed to the air outside the cab, and oriented in a specific way. I've seen some with internal fans meant to vent out of the cab as well. So before even getting into port flow/redirection/tuning issues and then potential mechanical vibration issues related to the amp itself, we might want to identify your candidate amps.

OK, for the sake of discussion, how about a 700W ICE module?

 

[Passinwind]

OK, for the sake of discussion, how about a 700W ICE module?

That's a great module IMO and IME, but it's a bit under the power class that the fEARful hive tends to recommend. It's also still not available to DIYers through official channels, and I've not yet seen any commercial standalone plate amps using it.

 

[two fingers]

That's a great module IMO and IME, but it's a bit under the power class that the fEARful hive tends to recommend. It's also still not available to DIYers through official channels, and I've not yet seen any commercial standalone plate amps using it.

What do you think then? Is there a 1,000W available-to-the-public module that would make for a more practical discussion? (Even if the results aren't what I'm wishing for?)


Or what's a plate amp that most of us could get our hands on that IF this would work would make a good fit in theory?

And thanks again for contributing to the discussion. Yeah my idea may fall flat on its face but finding that out from good guys eases the blow. Ha!

 

[Passinwind]

What do you think then? Is there a 1,000W available-to-the-public module that would make for a more practical discussion? (Even if the results aren't what I'm wishing for?)


Or what's a plate amp that most of us could get our hands on that IF this would work would make a good fit in theory?

And thanks again for contributing to the discussion. Yeah my idea may fall flat on its face but finding that out from good guys eases the blow. Ha!

Look at the Bag End one, at least at one time they were available as a standalone buy. I'll also PM you about the SpeakerPower one I have, which is very close to the spec that the Bergantino IP cabs used. I don't really use it anymore, and it never did make into a cab install. I could just never justify marrying such an expensive amp to one cab back when I was still building my own cabs and tending to flip commercial ones pretty often to boot. I gigged with it built into a rack case for quite a few years very happily, but it needs a new home. The DSP programming interface is exceptionally non user friendly though, so I wouldn't really recommend it for any but the most hard headed end users.

The default best bet for DIYer's is probably still the Hypex line. They got their start by supporting that market and even sell some things that are explicitly just meant for DIYers. ICEpower have gone through a lot of changes recently and perhaps there will be some spinoffs that work for the DIY community eventually. I meant to ask the rep about that at NAMM, but we were both crazy busy and I'm kind of been transitioning towards a different direction for a while myself.

 

[two fingers]

Look at the Bag End one, at least at one time they were available as a standalone buy. I'll also PM you about the SpeakerPower one I have, which is very close to the spec that the Bergantino IP cabs used. I don't really use it anymore, and it never did make into a cab install. I could just never justify marrying such an expensive amp to one cab back when I was still building my own cabs and tending to flip commercial ones pretty often to boot. I gigged with it built into a rack case for quite a few years very happily, but it needs a new home. The DSP programming interface is exceptionally non user friendly though, so I wouldn't really recommend it for any but the most hard headed end users.

The default best bet for DIYer's is probably still the Hypex line. They got their start by supporting that market and even sell some things that are explicitly just meant for DIYers. ICEpower have gone through a lot of changes recently and perhaps there will be some spinoffs that work for the DIY community eventually. I meant to ask the rep about that at NAMM, but we were both crazy busy and I'm kind of been transitioning towards a different direction for a while myself.

Thank you much for the input. Taking time out for a hobbyist (at best) simply beating around ideas in his head is much appreciated.

 

[Stu_Bass]

Look at the Bag End one, at least at one time they were available as a standalone buy. I'll also PM you about the SpeakerPower one I have, which is very close to the spec that the Bergantino IP cabs used. I don't really use it anymore, and it never did make into a cab install. I could just never justify marrying such an expensive amp to one cab back when I was still building my own cabs and tending to flip commercial ones pretty often to boot. I gigged with it built into a rack case for quite a few years very happily, but it needs a new home. The DSP programming interface is exceptionally non user friendly though, so I wouldn't really recommend it for any but the most hard headed end users.

The default best bet for DIYer's is probably still the Hypex line. They got their start by supporting that market and even sell some things that are explicitly just meant for DIYers. ICEpower have gone through a lot of changes recently and perhaps there will be some spinoffs that work for the DIY community eventually. I meant to ask the rep about that at NAMM, but we were both crazy busy and I'm kind of been transitioning towards a different direction for a while myself.

What direction have you been Passinwind in?

 

[Passinwind]

Thank you much for the input. Taking time out for a hobbyist (at best) simply beating around ideas in his head is much appreciated.

No worries. Learning by teaching has a lot of value in my world.

What direction have you been Passinwind in?

I'm into open source carrot farming, of course:

 

[MaHei]

What direction have you been Passinwind in?