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Where do I look for that dark, deep tone?

#81
This thread is awesome. I believe I have touched a soft spot, haven't I? "So guys, how do I take this sound that I have in my head and describe with random words and create it in real life?" I'm quite a beginner on this topic, and can already see I can find many many things in this community to help me. So, first of all, thank ya'all.

Now, to sum up again:

About my A4:
1. I should keep it and find the sound I need by playing with the EQ or strumming closer to the neck.
2. I should use the neck pickup.
3. I should dump the pickups and replace them.
4. I should keep the pickups.
5. The problem is the guitar was meant to be bright.
6. KEEP THE A4

About the rest of the factors that affect the sound:
1. Only the wood and strings affect the sound.
2. Only the amp and pickups affect the sound.
3. A guitar could sound the same with many different amps.
4. A guitar could sound completely different with different amps.
5. Get Flatwounds or Tapewounds for that deep warm sound.
6. Don't get Tapewounds.

XD

But anyway, I said I will update and here it is: I went to the local GC, and explained my problem. The dude gave me a weird Gretch open body type thing, and said it has a Contrabass sound. While playing around with it I discovered its connector is broken and asked him to give me something else.

And then he said something I've realized already and most of you said: Get a P-Bass, you can't go wrong with it.

And I did.

But first, I checked out a Gibson EB, and could truly feel its sound through the floor. It was awesome! But the guitar is small and I was like, "This guitar is small", and he was like "Why, you compensatin' for something?", and I was like, "Noooooo" and he was like "So what's wrong" and I was like "This guitar is really cool, but the sound is too aggressive, let me turn down the mids" and then I realized I can't turn the mids lower than what they were, since I was using the neck pickup and plucking on top of it. So he turned them mids down on the cab and the sound died.

I compared it to the P-Bass I eventually got, before and after. The EB could be more aggressive, but I wasn't able to mellow it down to what I wanted. Sure, flats or tapes would do that, but I had a feeling the P was closer to what I was looking for from the beginning. So I got a fancy american Fender P-Bass for alot of money, and now I have to sell my A4 or my wife will kill me :(

But anyway, in a month I should get some tapes in the mail, and I'll tell you how they sound.

I never did get to hear a Thunderbird again, since they ran out. But it may be my next axe. I'm definitely getting a Gibson something when I get better at playing.
 
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#83
Nev375 said:
Thanks. I find it gives me that thin artificial swirly reddish tone that only a tort pickguard can provide.
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Me too. You can't get a dark tone with a white pickguard for crying out load, and a black one makes your tone all 'metally'
images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQGZNkmnrv6beYIV9tmEbWnNT7UV0fEB4sPl4xhI4S9i7xZGJRwZQ.jpg
 
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#84
Semion N. said:
This thread is awesome. I believe I have touched a soft spot, haven't I? "So guys, how do I take this sound that I have in my head and describe with random words and create it in real life?" I'm quite a beginner on this topic, and can already see I can find many many things in this community to help me. So, first of all, thank ya'all.

I compared it to the P-Bass I eventually got, before and after. The EB could be more aggressive, but I wasn't able to mellow it down to what I wanted. Sure, flats or tapes would do that, but I had a feeling the P was closer to what I was looking for from the beginning. So I got a fancy american Fender P-Bass for alot of money, and now I have to sell my A4 or my wife will kill me :(

But anyway, in a month I should get some tapes in the mail, and I'll tell you how they sound.

I never did get to hear a Thunderbird again, since they ran out. But it may be my next axe. I'm definitely getting a Gibson something when I get better at playing.
Click to expand...

Welcome to the P bass world. it's a good place to be! Now, please list a couple of influences and I'll try to help you figure out the missing piece of the tone you are looking for. And FWIW, Flat's are probalby more in line with your goals then tapes. Just my $.02 but they have more punch and presence without high end sheen. Tons of tasty James Jamerson fundamental. And ditch the A4 and spend the money on a better amp.
 
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#85
Well...I see a couple options, here.

First option would be to cut as much treble as you can on your preamp and boost your bass on your amp. Get rid of the strings you have on your Cort and change to some GHS Pressure Wounds.

Next option would be to get a new bass. I really like the ESP/LTD Stream 204. Great little bass and has some good, deep thundering punch. Again though, change the strings to the GHS' I mentioned above.
 
#89
Well he got a new bass so I don't think he needs anymore advice regarding that..

IMO, the tonal differences between basses are obviously pretty big but I feel that you could learn to EQ any bass to match the sound you were looking for. Deep, dark and boomy is pretty easy to get with flats, bass/low mids boosted, treble at 9 or 10, and some tone rolled off. Regardless, you'll be very happy with that p bass for years to come. It's all you need as far as a bass goes.
 
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#90
Semion N. said:
Ha! This is an interesting selection of advice! Interesting because it's contradictive, but that's just the nature of things, isn't it?

So here is what I understand so far:

1. I should look at the Thunderbird.

2. I should check out tapewound strings

3. I should play with my Cort more, because I may have missed a setting or a playing method that may get me what I am looking for.

4. I cannot completely separate the guitar from the amp when looking for that special sound.

5. I should stop looking for that special sound.

6. U-Bass is awesome, but the fretted ones have intonation problems. Thank god - I thought there was something wrong with mine. I have a fretted acoustic Ubass and it works fine but I don't take it to gigs because of the above.

7. I don't need a different guitar.

8. I need to dump my guitar and get a different one.

9. P bass should solve the problem.

10. J bass should solve the problem.

Haha, well, thank you all, I appreciate it. My next step is to get tapewounds for my Cort, and go look for thunderbirds.
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Welcome to the world of bass. We are obsessed with tone, and are always striving for the next pedal, string, etc. All of the advice given is well intended, but ultimately, your band has to be the ultimate judge. Living with ambiguity is the mark of a healthy personality. Good luck!
 
#92
I agree it's very difficult to help the OP without some idea of what a deep dark tone is.

It could be a typical bass tone compared to the brightness of his current bass, it could be a punchy low mid tone like a P, it could be a deep tubby Hofner style tone, or a muddy fat vintage EBO style tone.

OP, do you have a favorite bassist or recorded tone that could help us refine your search?

As you can see the advice and recommendations are all over the shop as it is.
 
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#94
engedi1 said:
I have played a million basses and I actually agree with those who post about Gibson for a darker tone. Something about those humbuckers are dark and less distinct than most other pickups. its not my thing, but you may like it. Thunderbirds, especially the Epi ones are super neck divey though, so watch out for that.
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I've got 3 birds none dives.

Neck pin on the neck heel and it's all good.

OT: aside from pick ups and build the position is most important. One page back there's a pic of family man, check out where he plucks the string.
 
#95
Klondike said:
Hope your journey is going well. In the event you decide on a Thunderbird come join is in the Thunderbird club. Doesnt matter if its an Epi or Gibson. We are all friendly and everyone is helpfull and will always encorage you to get another bird, no matter the make or model. Thunderbirds have a tendancy to choose their owner. Hope you pick up the ine that fits you.

Btw - i have three birds...
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You know, back in the day I was into flipping birds. But I discovered that no matter how hard I tried, the most I could flip at any one time was two. :oops:

Now I have only one -- a bottom-of-the-line Epiphone.
 
#96
Rugmaster said:
When I think of deep and dark the first thing I get is a Gibson/Epiphone EB with that giant mudbucker in the neck position.
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I was looking for a similar tone. I found it in the the Gibson Midtown 2013 (std). The neck pickup is very similar to the EB-0, but I like the longer scale of the middy (with higher string tensions). And it's fairly light at ~8-1/2 Lbs.

One great thing about the middy is that the bridge pup is quite forward in the midrange. If you are getting lost in the mix, you can use the middle pup selection and the tone knob to dial in a tone which cuts better.

I use GHS Precision Flats and love the tone(s) for jazz, blues, reggae, r&b, classic rock, etc.

You can see the rest of my rig in my profile. Those whom I play with are expressively happy with my sound.

Cheers!
 
#97
Joebone said:
Fascinating post - Welcome, Semion N., to the problem of realizing the sound you hear in your head!

You speak of "deep" and "dark" as goals. These are very tricky words, and there are several layers to the multi-bulbed onion of tone and of timbre.

First, contemplate the timbre of the axe you have, with existing strings. Set your tone controls at center or neutral. If you move your right hand from the base of the neck to the bridge, and many places in between, what are you hearing?

If you hit harder or softer, with fingertips or with more finger-flesh, what are you hearing?

If you can't hear the sound you want with those adjustments, then consider playing with the tone controls on the bass. I don't suggest playing with the amp controls - keep those neutral/flat/centered as well.

So now you've worked the timbre of your axe - its native voice - and tone, via manipulation of tone controls.

Where to go from there?

It's a huge universe!

Pickups, preamps, string choices, fretboard wood, body wood(guessing that Thunderbird you dug had a mahogany body, which has a distinctive timbre leaning toward the dark side), (variety and density both for the wood), body size and neck wood will all come into play.

Check out some players who you dig. What are they using?

When you say "deep," do you mean deep in the sense of low frequency extension, reaching to or below the bass drum? (Beware, there…)

When you say "dark," are you talking about a less percussive attack, the absence of higher harmonics, both of the above, or something else still? Is "dark" actually "smooth," in the sense of a uniformity that comes through compression?

Overall, if you could blow a weekday morning at a GC when the wankers are not out, and try out a bunch of different basses through the same amp, you might get a better handle on what you are thinking about or looking for (although guessing that this experience won't provide guidance on the difference between flat wound and round wound strings).

I wish you luck. This is a long-term search. I think I'm just about sorted out now (and my own goals are dark, deep, fast but fat), but it's taken years, and in and out of a lot of instruments…and here we're only talking tone, but you also may wish to consider ergonomics as an element of what works best for you.

Best of luck - the journey is the destination!
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I agree with everything Joebone said. I would just add a few specifics as far as basses are concerned, as I had similar questions many years ago. You may want to look at Ernie Ball, Lakeland and Warwick as they may lead you to a tone you are looking for.
 
#100
Good choice with the P bass. If you listen to various recordings, there's a ton of artists out there that get a variety of great tones with one. Notice - each artist sounds different though they are all using the "same" bass.

Chasing tone is one of those things that is virtually neverending. I only recently - after 20+ years of tone searching - found the tone that was in my head. Honestly, it had less to do with the bass (in my case).

Btw, your P bass has a tone knob. Feel free to experiment with turning it down a little or a lot. See what position you like best.

As for the actual bass, I've had 5 P basses at one point and they all sounded different. Go figure.
 

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