• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Double Bass Where do the Basses Sit?

Bruce Lindfield

Bruce Lindfield

Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor
Gold Supporting Member
In Memoriam
Dec 13, 1999
32,313
197
Brighton, England, UK, Europe
#1
I have been attending a few concerts at the BBC Proms Festival in the Royal Albert Hall (London) over the lest week or so and admiring the great Double Bass sections of orchestras like the Berliner and usually the section is set up on the right - as far as the audience is concerned.

But last night I saw the Leipzig Gewandhaus conducted by Chailly doing Mahler 6th - where the Basses were seated on the left (as far as the audience/conductor is looking). :eyebrow:

Any ideas what the reason for this could be? So I saw the Berliner on Thursday and Friday with basses to the right and then on Sunday they are on the left - same venue, so it can't be to do with that and must be a preference of the orchestra or conductor - but why?
 
#2
The Vienna Phil sits at the back facing out. This seems to make sense given the long throw of the low frequency sound waves.
But on the left? Maybe so the section can't hide the fact they havent ironed their trousers ;-). Where were the other strings? 1sts directly opposite?
 
#3
I'm seeing the Vienna on Thursday at the same venue - so I'll see how they set up! :p

I think the rest of the strings were as normal - but I did notice they seemed very cramped - it was a huge number of people, for Mahler's 6th. There were violins at the extreme edges of the stage on both sides - but the leader (1st Violin) was in the usual place, of just to the left of the conductor (as far as the audience is looking).

I suppose it may be that particular piece requires a large percussion section (including hammer blows) and a large low brass section - lots of trombones on the other side, where the basses would normally be ?
 
#7
Roger Davis said:
Most of the time I've seen them on the right. BTW, it appears that five-stringers are becoming more prevalent, edging out the c-extensions. Anyone else noticed this?
Click to expand...

I just noticed this in Wiki :

"In the Romantic era and the 20th century, composers such as Wagner, Mahler, Beethoven, Busoni, and Prokofiev also requested notes below the low E. There are two common methods for making these notes available to the player. Major European orchestras generally use basses with a fifth string, tuned to B three octaves and a semitone below middle C.[12] Players with standard double basses (E-A-D-G) typically play the notes below "E" an octave higher.

In the United States, Canada and United Kingdom, most professional orchestral players use four-string double basses with a C extension, which extends the lowest string down as far as low C, an octave below the lowest note on the cello (more rarely, this string may be tuned to a low B[13]). The extension is an extra section of fingerboard mounted up over the head of the bass. There are several varieties of extensions. "

No answer as to why they would sit on the left though?
 
#8
I have sat both on the left and the right in the Sydney Opera House concert hall. It is the conductor's call and may be driven by repertoire, their wish to have 2nd Violins opposite the Firsts, or even their hearing loss. I can't remember who set up the "standard" basses and cello on the right system (Stokowski?) but this is meant to give the best blend of orchestral colours. Basses on the left turns the f holes to point out to the audience, making them more audible, partly also by separating them from the wall of brass sound. Either way the celli normally sit near the basses. For all its hype the Sydney OH concert Hall does not have a bass-friendly acoustic. For me the disadvantages were (1) the stand partners swap sides that makes page turning more awkward, and (2) the inside-end front row bass player is beside the Piccolo (very nasty for the ears!!).

Cheers, DP
 
#9
I think that's it David - so in Mahler 6, it must have been the desire to separate the basses from "wall of brass" - the chorales for brass, in that piece.

I felt I noticed the basses more and how they contribute to the driving march-like rhythms of this symphony - it was quite enjoyable, from an audience perspective. :)
 
#10
Some set up the strings to imitate a choir. So, soprano on the left with the bass beside it to improve the tuning with the inner voices to the right so that they are heard better.

Sometimes the 2nd violins are on the outside. This makes a nice stereoscopic effect between the 1st and 2nd violins, especially if there is a lot of antiphonal part writing. Sometimes the violas are on the outside so the tenor line can be heard better.

As for the basses being on the left, I have found the bass part is easier to hear as the face of the instrument points directly out to the audience rather than across the stage as in the 1st, 2nd, vla, celli, bass setup.

From a player's standpoint, I feel closer to the melody and can follow the concertmaster's bow arm better. Plus, I can hear the wind parts more easily (which can be quite confusing at first). And it allows my left ear to become deaf for a change!

I find page turning to be very awkward though if I am the inside player.

It doesn't really matter once I get used to it, as long as I am not in front of the timpani! (but that's another story)
 
#12
Couple of months ago I saw the Philly orchestra play with Jaap van Sweden--bassists were arranged in the back, Vienna-style, for the Shostakovich Chamber Symphony, but in their usual place for the other pieces.

I surmise that it varies depending on the piece. I've only ever had one conductor put the section on back risers, and that was experimental. We ended up on risers in the end, but still at our usual place.

Can anyone comment about risers? I love the feeling of playing in that sort of situation, but I couldn't tell you why. It feels like you're in Roman amphitheater when you're playing like that.
 
#13
Risers are awesome if the stage floor is particularly unresonant. In a stage situation a good fraction of the bass section's sound comes from endpin vibration transmitted into the floor, and if that isn't working for some reason (concrete floor, for example) using risers is a great solution.
 
#14
So, last night I went to see the Vienna Philharmonic conducted by Bernard Haitink at the Royal Albert Hall as part of the BBC Proms and the basses were sitting on the right!

I think that it might have been the music chosen though, as in the second half, they played Bruckner's 9th symphony and there was a large brass section sitting at the back in the middle on risers - so they weren't right behind the basses.

I can see how this is very good for the clarity of sound - but couldn't have happened in the Mahler 6 I saw with the Leipzig, as the space at the back was taken up by the large percussion section and harps etc. So they put basses on the left to avoid being swamped by brass.

Whereas last night it made more sense for the Vienna to put the large brass section at the back, because Bruckner 9 has no percussion at all and no harps - just one Timpani player.
I can now see how the position of the basses depends entirely on the repertoire chosen.
 
#16
PaulKing said:
I tend to prefer stage left, just so i can see the guitarist without having to turn my back on the audience.

Sorry .. that's verging on a troll comment.
Click to expand...

Same here, but not in the trolling manner hahaha.
I just feel its much easier standing stage left because I can see the rest of the band and in the same shot, see my fret hand. So that way it doesn't look as if I'm staring at my fretting hand so much haha!
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back