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where do you sit on ancient astronaut theory?

#61
Valiant Bandit said:
I need to weigh in here because I am freakishly obsessed with science.

Yes but it's a THEORY, not a FACT. A theory can be discredited and opposed. There's also evidence to support cretationism - not in the "God reached down from the heavens and the Earth." But really, there are no other animals on the face of the planet that would willingly commit suicide, rape, murder, etc. If I wanted to make a thesis on it, I could and it would be enough evidence to support a THEORY. Darwinism is a theory as well.
Click to expand...

It's also a theory that I am a human being. And it is a theory that the Sun is a star. As well as that living things are made up of cells. Or that gravity is exerting a force on you right now. Suffice to say, you are not understanding what a theory actually is in scientific terms.

The last bit of your post is relativism in the extreme.
 
#64


First of all, may I point out that the evolution discussion is completely off-topic even for this off-topic thread, and is very likely to veer into religion and thus get the thread closed. Let's avoid that if we want to sustain the dialogue here.

Secondly, let me propose an experiment: give a toddler a pile of blocks and have them spend a couple of days trying to build the highest, most durable structure they can with them. Lo and behold, after a while they will figure out that the simplest way to do this is to build something that is wide at the bottom and narrow at the top - i.e. a pyramid. That's just how you deal with gravity when you don't have any more sophisticated architectural skills. A toddler will figure that out in a few days. Believe me, ancient adults pondering how to build big impressive things will figure it out after a few thousand years. People go on an on about "how could these ancient people have possibly built these things with their limited technology..." Come on... people are smart. They figure things out.

Now, to a post the OP put up a few pages back. The agricultural revolution, when human beings stopped being hunter/gatherers and started to settle down, took place starting in the Middle East between about 8,000 and 4,000 BC, give or take a thousand years or so. It's right at the end of that era, between 4,000 and 3,000 BC, that you start getting civilizations building ziggurats and pyramids in Mesopotamia and Egypt. I don't know what you're imagining talking about 15,000 year old architecture. There is a very early temple complex in Turkey, which suggests that central religious shrines may have preceded city-building rather than followed it, as was previously thought. That was a major discovery, but it certainly is no evidence that people were incapable of organizing labor and putting up buildings until aliens taught them how to do it.

Besides, if they used technology that had zapped the aliens faster than light-speed across the galaxy, presumably they could have built something more sophisticated than a pyramid. Furthermore, subsequent building would show a decline in complexity and sophistication as poor stupid humans couldn't reproduce the feat without the extraterrestrial technology. In fact, however, the opposite is the case. A pyramid is not harder to design and build than the Parthenon, it just requires mobilizing more raw muscle over a longer period of time.

Believe it or not, there are communities of scholars who work by established rules to figure out how one reliably dates and interprets these things. There will always be some screwball who got a degree from Podunk University and gets TV time by saying that all the real experts who actually know how to do this work are wrong. If that is what one wants to base one's opinions on, by all means be my guest. They make great TV. But if I were putting my money in the stock market, that's not the kind of place I'm going to get my investment advice from.

To Matticus: evidence that has not been seen is not evidence. A thing only becomes evidence when it is known and brought to bear on an argument. To say that there's evidence out there that we don't know of is just a twisted way to say that there IS no evidence, but that we prefer to form an opinion based on evidence we like to fantasize MIGHT exist rather than on the evidence we actually have. That does not amount to rational thought in my book.

For the record, I am perfectly happy to believe that there might indeed be life somewhere else out there in the universe. The sheer scale of the cosmos argues that there's no reason to think Earth is unique in that respect. But I see no evidence that any such life has visited Earth. Carl Sagan got this perfectly right in Contact: this belief is a matter of sheer faith, in the same category as religious faith.

On the Mayan calendar: apart from the difficulties interpreting the calendar (which is not as straightforward as all that) there are references in other Mayan texts which apparently refer to dates far out beyond 2012. Besides that, why do the Maya get to call the date on the end of the world? The Buddha is supposed to have said that the world would end 5,000 years after his own death, when no one kept his teachings any more, which would put it around 4500 AD. The Hindus (or at least, some Hindu writings), give the world a pattern of cycles running over 8 BILLION years each, and none of them predicted to end any time near now. Not to mention Christianity's nasty habit of cranking out an end-of-the-world prophet a couple of times every generation. What's so special about the Maya that says they know more about the end of the world than any of these other cultures? Presumably aliens were visiting all of them...
 
#65
healthy debate! i wish more legitimate scientists would be more open to allowing it. the word says it all HIStory. history is told by the victorious and powerful-is how the common saying goes. and to the folks who flame, the OP, me, never exactly said aliens, just astronauts or visitors. like i said in a previous post, i feel it could be just a possible that an alternate us managed to travel interdimensionally, or hell, back in time from a point far in our future. and i also never said i thought ancient humans lacked the intelligence to pull off the invention of language and construction of megalithic buildings, just the technology to create such amazing projects has never been found, and language is somewhat unique to uor species, or at least as complex of linguistic abilities. and about 2012 or whatever, yes it's the end of a cycle, and our calendar ends every year. but the mayans (most closely tied to the 2012 stuff) knew stuff about the astronomical events that we didn't "know" until fairly recently. Have you ever looked closely at the copernican model of the solar system? way off for the most part, but still a step towards the truth, much like i feel we are now with this theory, we're making progress towards explaining to a degree some of the great mysteries of our planet's past. we know today that there are things going on in the galaxy/universe that do coincide with our current place in time, which could quite effectively change the planet without any help from us. i also think that, due to the powers that be, for any human epoch of human past, are responsible for our lack of knowledge of our past--- the dark ages and the destruction by the spanish of complete libraries of mayan texts are only two examples of this. the nazis held big book burnings, too, and that was less than 100 years ago.

and i'll say it again--"forbidden archaeology"--900 pages of documented scientific data from multiple schools of accepted science- and not one mention of extraterrestrials, or drawn conclusions- simply anomolous and unexplained PHYSICAL evidence that has either been "lost" or covered up.

and the title of the post does say theory.....;)
 
#68
basscooker said:
...the vatican itself issued a statement saying belief in e.t.'s was not contradictory to [catholic] faith, and hinduism specifically embraces this theory, not to mention other faiths as well...
Click to expand...
Some faiths DON'T believe in ETs.

Personally, I think this life in this world gives us enough to focus on without wasting time thinking about life on other planets. I have not seen the show. I do not have the History Channel.

If the world ends in 2012, there won't be anything any of use will be able to do to stop it so worrying about it is useless. Personally, I don't believe the world is going to end in 2012.
 
#70
Valiant Bandit said:
I need to weigh in here because I am freakishly obsessed with science.




Yes but it's a THEORY, not a FACT. A theory can be discredited and opposed. There's also evidence to support cretationism - not in the "God reached down from the heavens and the Earth." But really, there are no other animals on the face of the planet that would willingly commit suicide, rape, murder, etc. If I wanted to make a thesis on it, I could and it would be enough evidence to support a THEORY. Darwinism is a theory as well.



+1. You're exactly right.



You're correct - somewhat. We're related to them in the same genus; much like the way cats and lions are related. However that in no way proves we descended from them.

The question is do YOU know what the Scientific Method is?



I think a lot of people don't understand scientists. They try to explain some of the hardest questions in the world. Rule #1 is "What you think is right, could very well be wrong."



Thank you, you're exactly right. Even gravity is just a theory and I think that scares a LOT of people because people want solid answers so they don't have to think.

Back to the OP though...I do believe aliens exist...

Look at it this way, the distance from the Earth to the Sun is 93,000,000 miles or 1 Astronomical Unit (AU) . Humans cannot fathom that distance. (93,000,000) It's like an ant trying to comprehend that there's a whole planet called earth. So we use (AU) to "dumb it down" a little so the mileage isn't so mind blowing. There is so much SPACE out in space - billions and BILLIONS of AUs away from here. Uh yeah, aliens exist. There's no way we're the only people here just based on the fact that there's so much area in space, there has to be another semi-"intelligent" species out there.

Was Earth visited by aliens back in the day? I believe so as it would answer many questions. #1.) The Pyramids in Egypt are lined up perfectly with the stars. Look, these people didn't even have the damned wheel and you're going to tell me that these people PULLED and PUSHED 100 Ton blocks the size of most apartment complexes? Nope. #2.) There are similar pyramids in Mexico - also lined up perfectly with the stars. But that's just a fluke right? #3.) The annunaki. #4.) The fact Egyptians worshiped "Extraterrestrial Beings". #5.) Easter Island. #6.) The Stonehenge . #7.) Atlantis...etc, etc.

The Annunaki are my favourite as they wrote about beings coming from the 10th planet in the solar system visiting us every 2,750 years. But doomsdayers always have a field day with that one.

The Mayans wrote that calendar over 1,000 years ago. When it ends in 2012, it's the end of this current era and is the new era of Atlantis.
Remember, the way I feel is just a theory and is not right or wrong...Just like there's a theory that Earth was the 5th planet from the Sun and we were hit by the 10th planet which caused us to spiral closer to the sun to where we are today. of course the shards from the impact caused the asteroid belt and our moon.
Click to expand...

Thanks, You said a lot of thing better then I could.

I want to add in how so many very credible people have made reports of things and even more very credible people that have seen things but never reported it because they didn't want the trouble.

I am talking about Test pilots, astronauts, military and civilian pilots from around the world. Military and civilian radar operators.

I have a very hard time believing that all these ancient civilizations just happened to build all this stuff for the heck of it.

I am a ex sailor that spent some time at sea. I saw things along with a lot of other shipmates that showed also up on radar, but never got reported.
A lot of Captain's and pilots do not want it in their file.
During my time in the Navy I had the opportunity to see a lot of these places. When you stand and see these places it truly amazes you.
 
#71
Valiant Bandit said:
I need to weigh in here because I am freakishly obsessed with science.




Yes but it's a THEORY, not a FACT. A theory can be discredited and opposed. There's also evidence to support cretationism - not in the "God reached down from the heavens and the Earth." But really, there are no other animals on the face of the planet that would willingly commit suicide, rape, murder, etc. If I wanted to make a thesis on it, I could and it would be enough evidence to support a THEORY. Darwinism is a theory as well.



+1. You're exactly right.



You're correct - somewhat. We're related to them in the same genus; much like the way cats and lions are related. However that in no way proves we descended from them.
The question is do YOU know what the Scientific Method is?



I think a lot of people don't understand scientists. They try to explain some of the hardest questions in the world. Rule #1 is "What you think is right, could very well be wrong."



Thank you, you're exactly right. Even gravity is just a theory and I think that scares a LOT of people because people want solid answers so they don't have to think.

Back to the OP though...I do believe aliens exist...

Look at it this way, the distance from the Earth to the Sun is 93,000,000 miles or 1 Astronomical Unit (AU) . Humans cannot fathom that distance. (93,000,000) It's like an ant trying to comprehend that there's a whole planet called earth. So we use (AU) to "dumb it down" a little so the mileage isn't so mind blowing. There is so much SPACE out in space - billions and BILLIONS of AUs away from here. Uh yeah, aliens exist. There's no way we're the only people here just based on the fact that there's so much area in space, there has to be another semi-"intelligent" species out there.

Was Earth visited by aliens back in the day? I believe so as it would answer many questions. #1.) The Pyramids in Egypt are lined up perfectly with the stars. Look, these people didn't even have the damned wheel and you're going to tell me that these people PULLED and PUSHED 100 Ton blocks the size of most apartment complexes? Nope. #2.) There are similar pyramids in Mexico - also lined up perfectly with the stars. But that's just a fluke right? #3.) The annunaki. #4.) The fact Egyptians worshiped "Extraterrestrial Beings". #5.) Easter Island. #6.) The Stonehenge . #7.) Atlantis...etc, etc.

The Annunaki are my favourite as they wrote about beings coming from the 10th planet in the solar system visiting us every 2,750 years. But doomsdayers always have a field day with that one.

The Mayans wrote that calendar over 1,000 years ago. When it ends in 2012, it's the end of this current era and is the new era of Atlantis.
Remember, the way I feel is just a theory and is not right or wrong...Just like there's a theory that Earth was the 5th planet from the Sun and we were hit by the 10th planet which caused us to spiral closer to the sun to where we are today. of course the shards from the impact caused the asteroid belt and our moon.
Click to expand...

A lot of misconceptions here.

Regarding the first bolded point: There are plenty of animals that commit these acts. Ever seen a cat play with a mouse, then kill it and not eat it? Dogs that maul people rarely eat them either. That's murder. As far as animals commiting rape, they do it ALL the time. In fact, that's the primary method. I have watched my roosters go after a hen, holding her neck in thier beak so she can't escape.

Regarding why cats and lions look alike (and chimps and humans). No, I never said we came from them. We share a common ancestor. That's evolution.

Regarding ancient people knowing astronomy so perfectly, lining up pyramids with the stars. The polynesians knew stars so perfectly, they were able to discover easter island, the hawaiian islands, and possibly america. A long, long time ago.

I totally believe in aliens, by the way. I just doubt seriously they have ever been here, nor could they get here even if they wanted. It might turn out that the distances are impossible to get around, even for far advanced technology.
 
#72
hdracer said:
Thanks, You said a lot of thing better then I could.

I want to add in how so many very credible people have made reports of things and even more very credible people that have seen things but never reported it because they didn't want the trouble.

I am talking about Test pilots, astronauts, military and civilian pilots from around the world. Military and civilian radar operators.

I have a very hard time believing that all these ancient civilizations just happened to build all this stuff for the heck of it.

I am a ex sailor that spent some time at sea. I saw things along with a lot of other shipmates that showed also up on radar, but never got reported.
A lot of Captain's and pilots do not want it in their file.
During my time in the Navy I had the opportunity to see a lot of these places. When you stand and see these places it truly amazes you.
Click to expand...

I was far out at sea once. It was a creepy night. The wind whisting eeriely through the rigging, the shortwave making those spooky "swoop" sounds, intermingled with bits of far off russian music. I spotted a glowing orb in the water, off our starboard side. Slowing down, we saw that it was a grinning ghost skull...with evil, leering eyes and a glowing head of green hair. Convinced it was a sea hag, the bridge officer ordered full stop and we got a gaff and a net and brought it on board. It was a coconut that had been in the water so long it was rotting, covered with algae and bioluminescence.

The mind sees what it wants to see, given the right conditions.
 
#75
lucas vigor said:
I was far out at sea once. It was a creepy night. The wind whisting eeriely through the rigging, the shortwave making those spooky "swoop" sounds, intermingled with bits of far off russian music. I spotted a glowing orb in the water, off our starboard side. Slowing down, we saw that it was a grinning ghost skull...with evil, leering eyes and a glowing head of green hair. Convinced it was a sea hag, the bridge officer ordered full stop and we got a gaff and a net and brought it on board. It was a coconut that had been in the water so long it was rotting, covered with algae and bioluminescence.

The mind sees what it wants to see, given the right conditions.
Click to expand...

Don't patronize me.
I was telling of a incident witnessed by two sailors and a officer on the deck (myself one) along with the bridge officer and all personnel on the bridge and confirmed by radar on a US Navy Guided missile cruiser
 
#77
pacojas said:
my camp says they were way more intelligent than us! we believe they used their entire brain, unlike modern man who barely uses his entire body anymore.
Click to expand...

This concept of "we don't use our entire brain, what if we did?" is so asinine. We do use every part of our brain, just not all at once, because we simply don't need to. Different parts are responsible for different things.

MatticusMania said:
Hmm, the very fact that Earth is supposedly the only planet in our solar system with advanced lifeforms opens the door to a lot of possible reasons...
Click to expand...

Probably because it is the only one with suitable conditions for life.

Valiant Bandit said:
I need to weigh in here because I am freakishly obsessed with science.




Yes but it's a THEORY, not a FACT. A theory can be discredited and opposed. There's also evidence to support cretationism - not in the "God reached down from the heavens and the Earth." But really, there are no other animals on the face of the planet that would willingly commit suicide, rape, murder, etc. If I wanted to make a thesis on it, I could and it would be enough evidence to support a THEORY. Darwinism is a theory as well.



+1. You're exactly right.



You're correct - somewhat. We're related to them in the same genus; much like the way cats and lions are related. However that in no way proves we descended from them.

The question is do YOU know what the Scientific Method is?



I think a lot of people don't understand scientists. They try to explain some of the hardest questions in the world. Rule #1 is "What you think is right, could very well be wrong."



Thank you, you're exactly right. Even gravity is just a theory and I think that scares a LOT of people because people want solid answers so they don't have to think.

Back to the OP though...I do believe aliens exist...

Look at it this way, the distance from the Earth to the Sun is 93,000,000 miles or 1 Astronomical Unit (AU) . Humans cannot fathom that distance. (93,000,000) It's like an ant trying to comprehend that there's a whole planet called earth. So we use (AU) to "dumb it down" a little so the mileage isn't so mind blowing. There is so much SPACE out in space - billions and BILLIONS of AUs away from here. Uh yeah, aliens exist. There's no way we're the only people here just based on the fact that there's so much area in space, there has to be another semi-"intelligent" species out there.

Was Earth visited by aliens back in the day? I believe so as it would answer many questions. #1.) The Pyramids in Egypt are lined up perfectly with the stars. Look, these people didn't even have the damned wheel and you're going to tell me that these people PULLED and PUSHED 100 Ton blocks the size of most apartment complexes? Nope. #2.) There are similar pyramids in Mexico - also lined up perfectly with the stars. But that's just a fluke right? #3.) The annunaki. #4.) The fact Egyptians worshiped "Extraterrestrial Beings". #5.) Easter Island. #6.) The Stonehenge . #7.) Atlantis...etc, etc.

The Annunaki are my favourite as they wrote about beings coming from the 10th planet in the solar system visiting us every 2,750 years. But doomsdayers always have a field day with that one.

The Mayans wrote that calendar over 1,000 years ago. When it ends in 2012, it's the end of this current era and is the new era of Atlantis.
Remember, the way I feel is just a theory and is not right or wrong...Just like there's a theory that Earth was the 5th planet from the Sun and we were hit by the 10th planet which caused us to spiral closer to the sun to where we are today. of course the shards from the impact caused the asteroid belt and our moon.
Click to expand...

You seem more obsessed with pseudo-science.

hdracer said:
It is one thing to navigate waterways by the stars.
It is a whole nother thing to build things to line up with them.
Click to expand...

Yep, and just another step to visiting the stars on fancy rockets, nothing unusual about it.
 

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