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Where Will Fender Go Next?

Oh lighten up there sugar boobies (unless your boobies are literally made of sugar, then I guess you and I are right back to square one). It doesn't take a genius to see that this is a light-hearted discussion and that I don't hate old people. (When did we become such PANSIES????? Now, THAT was meant as a pejorative, so you have my permission to be offended starting right now. Ready........ go.)

OK, now that you are officially ticked off, let me explain my point (again). Nobody gives a crap what an old guy on the street corner in Hampton VA thinks. It doesn't happen there. It happens in the INDUSTRY and trickles down. These days we're really talking about Nashville. (Anyone who doesn't think that musical trends are mostly coming out of Nashville these days is fooling themselves.) So, the OLD GUYS who run the music business in Nashville are trying to keep things the way they always have been. So, all the new kids showing up in town are pretty much FORCED to go out and get something that either IS a Fender P bass, or looks JUST LIKE a Fender bass built by a boutique builder (or at least a high-end builder). I'm not pulling this out of my butt! I have TALKED to them. They show up to town with a Fodera 6 string thinking that everybody they run into will love it. Next thing you know, they are playing a 4 string P bass. And their $5000+ bass sits at the house. They come from Julliard, North Texas, Berklee, Bloomington, etc. with all kinds of boutique basses. POOF! Within weeks, it's a 4 string P bass. (And secretly they hate them. But don't tell anyone. Let's just keep this between us so as not to disturb the machine. K?)

So, my point had NOTHING to do with LOCAL old guys pounding away at bass players, and EVERYTHING to do with the INDUSTRY pounding away at them.

And my point STILL is, you HAD your day. Now let the kids have their day. And let Fender CATER to those kids with WHATEVER crazy designs they want! And quit pissing and moaning every time Fender decides to try something NEW rather than offering you OLD GUYS a freaking TELE bass with a mudbucker at the bridge in SHERWOOD GREEN! If you WANT one of those, put one together with parts or have the custom shop MAKE you one. And let them MARKET new ideas to the MASSES.

Don't let my all-caps words get your panties in a wad there Princess. I'm not mad. Why should you be?

Here. Here's a smiley to make it all better --> :D

Group hug? No? How about a slap on the butt like they do in Football/Baseball. No? Man, you're hard to please.

with all due respect to Nashville - music is being made in other places as well and it's influence outside of the US is somewhat limited. yet Fenders are still the most common brand around in many a music scenes. bands from all over the world sport Ps and Js.
look at the indie scene - dominated by young people who couldn't care less about what the "old guys" think but still you'll see Ps and Teles all over the place.

much more reasonable factors to Fender's prevalence would be:

1. people want to have the tones they grew up with at their disposal and since about 90% of popular music recordings in the past 60 years feature a P-Bass it's only natural a Pbass would feel like home to most bassists, it's instilled in most people's mind as what a bass should sound like.

2. it just works. a P or J is a proven design that stood the test of time while hippie sandwich, graphite necks, headless etc. disappeared or were reduced to the status of niche market products as passing fads. seemingly superior designs came and went, the P and J (along with the Tele and Strat) have remained virtually unchanged from the basic designs. think what you will - most people interpret this as a sign of a good, versatile, enduring product that wont fall from grace a few years from now.

3. beginning players will want to play the same instruments as their idols play and like it or not Jamerson, Dunn, JPJ, Jaco etc. played Fenders. maybe they played Ps and Js just because thats what was available to them at the time but fact is that Fender is a strong brand name associated with the world's most renowned musicians right from the get go of popular music.
it's a chain reaction (Hendrix->SRV->John Mayer) and it's not likely to break up anytime soon.

4. Am. Std. Fenders are reliable workhorses, readily available and familiar enough so everybody knows how they sound in a variety of genres and mixes through different amps.
you can buy a MIA Fender pretty much sight unseen and you know what you are getting - it's the meat and potatoes of guitars and basses: not cooked by a chef but everybody likes it and it won't leave you hungry.
a touring band with Fenders knows they could get replacements and or service almost anywhere in the world and it's also much cheaper to replace if lost or damaged while touring, which leads me to the next point...

5. price. you can argue whether the MIA and American Reissues are priced right or not but at the bottom line you can buy 4-5 run of the mill MIA Precisions for the price of an MTD so if a 19 years old kid wants an MTD or not he is pretty much bound to a price range where Fender is the indisputable king in terms of bang for buck.
you'll mainly see baby boomers playing boutique MTDs, Ken Smiths, Foderas, Ritters etc in youtube vids and small coffee shop jazz gigs. most indie bassists at SXSW will play a Fender simply because it's cheaper (and not as undesirably pretentious looking as a multi string laminated bass with a coffee table top).

6. still in the economic side of it all - resale value.
try selling your $3000+ bass on Talkbass (not to mention locally) and you may find yourself just trading it for multiple Fenders and selling these off.
even selling another brand of similar price point may prove the supremacy of Fender's resale value.
Fenders always sell fast and hold up their value, money-wise, better than any brand. for some people that's important and makes them more confident at purchasing a new Fender than say, a used Zon or used Dingwall which may come up at an almost equal price not to mention brands like G&L and Lakland Skyline which make great Fender inspired instruments which are of great quality and loose value in the 2nd hand market compared to Fenders of equal MSRPs.

7. Nostalgia. don't underestimate it's power. lots of people feel nostalgic toward times when they weren't yet adults or when they haven't even lived.
look at hipsters - keen on reliving the early 80s though most of them were born a decade later. or guys aged 50+ buying Mustangs, Camaros and Challengers (new production or restorations) to relive their teens.
that holds true to musical instruments too.
 
IMHO, the reson Fenders are so popular is because a bad player, like myself, can make them sound decent.. even good.
Many nice basses are just too much, they reproduce every single detail... A good player can make both a Fender and a Boutique sound great.. But for a not-so-good player a nice boutique might just amplify mistakes and poor technique. Fenders are popular because they are forgiving but still sound good... Just my opinion, based on my poor technique and experience, though..
 
with all due respect to Nashville - music is being made in other places as well and it's influence outside of the US is somewhat limited. yet Fenders are still the most common brand around in many a music scenes. bands from all over the world sport Ps and Js.
look at the indie scene - dominated by young people who couldn't care less about what the "old guys" think but still you'll see Ps and Teles all over the place.

much more reasonable factors to Fender's prevalence would be:

1. people want to have the tones they grew up with at their disposal and since about 90% of popular music recordings in the past 60 years feature a P-Bass it's only natural a Pbass would feel like home to most bassists, it's instilled in most people's mind as what a bass should sound like.

2. it just works. a P or J is a proven design that stood the test of time while hippie sandwich, graphite necks, headless etc. disappeared or were reduced to the status of niche market products as passing fads. seemingly superior designs came and went, the P and J (along with the Tele and Strat) have remained virtually unchanged from the basic designs. think what you will - most people interpret this as a sign of a good, versatile, enduring product that wont fall from grace a few years from now.

3. beginning players will want to play the same instruments as their idols play and like it or not Jamerson, Dunn, JPJ, Jaco etc. played Fenders. maybe they played Ps and Js just because thats what was available to them at the time but fact is that Fender is a strong brand name associated with the world's most renowned musicians right from the get go of popular music.
it's a chain reaction (Hendrix->SRV->John Mayer) and it's not likely to break up anytime soon.

4. Am. Std. Fenders are reliable workhorses, readily available and familiar enough so everybody knows how they sound in a variety of genres and mixes through different amps.
you can buy a MIA Fender pretty much sight unseen and you know what you are getting - it's the meat and potatoes of guitars and basses: not cooked by a chef but everybody likes it and it won't leave you hungry.
a touring band with Fenders knows they could get replacements and or service almost anywhere in the world and it's also much cheaper to replace if lost or damaged while touring, which leads me to the next point...

5. price. you can argue whether the MIA and American Reissues are priced right or not but at the bottom line you can buy 4-5 run of the mill MIA Precisions for the price of an MTD so if a 19 years old kid wants an MTD or not he is pretty much bound to a price range where Fender is the indisputable king in terms of bang for buck.
you'll mainly see baby boomers playing boutique MTDs, Ken Smiths, Foderas, Ritters etc in youtube vids and small coffee shop jazz gigs. most indie bassists at SXSW will play a Fender simply because it's cheaper (and not as undesirably pretentious looking as a multi string laminated bass with a coffee table top).

6. still in the economic side of it all - resale value.
try selling your $3000+ bass on Talkbass (not to mention locally) and you may find yourself just trading it for multiple Fenders and selling these off.
even selling another brand of similar price point may prove the supremacy of Fender's resale value.
Fenders always sell fast and hold up their value, money-wise, better than any brand. for some people that's important and makes them more confident at purchasing a new Fender than say, a used Zon or used Dingwall which may come up at an almost equal price not to mention brands like G&L and Lakland Skyline which make great Fender inspired instruments which are of great quality and loose value in the 2nd hand market compared to Fenders of equal MSRPs.

7. Nostalgia. don't underestimate it's power. lots of people feel nostalgic toward times when they weren't yet adults or when they haven't even lived.
look at hipsters - keen on reliving the early 80s though most of them were born a decade later. or guys aged 50+ buying Mustangs, Camaros and Challengers (new production or restorations) to relive their teens.
that holds true to musical instruments too.

While I appreciate you took the time to write this out, much of it appears to be baseless supposition. For instance, let's see how many 'beginning bass players' these days know who Dunn is, or care about Jaco. I have a few younger relatives who are 'beginning players' of high school age and who are in bands and they certainly have no interest in Motown, or Zeppelin or anything like that. Times change.

The supposition that 'hippie sandwich' basses haven't been successful is also dubious. There are way more boutique builders NOW than since the height of the Alembic 70's, more choices more options more basses being built. They're not being sold for production bass cost, so there's no real comparison in the market or popularity. Also, 'baby boomer' basses? I know a whole ton of people my age and younger that play boutique instruments. We're the KIDS of baby boomers. Most real boomers are into their Fender Nostalgia...they want the basses of their childhood.
 
While I appreciate you took the time to write this out, much of it appears to be baseless supposition. For instance, let's see how many 'beginning bass players' these days know who Dunn is, or care about Jaco. I have a few younger relatives who are 'beginning players' of high school age and who are in bands and they certainly have no interest in Motown, or Zeppelin or anything like that. Times change.

The supposition that 'hippie sandwich' basses haven't been successful is also dubious. There are way more boutique builders NOW than since the height of the Alembic 70's, more choices more options more basses being built. They're not being sold for production bass cost, so there's no real comparison in the market or popularity. Also, 'baby boomer' basses? I know a whole ton of people my age and younger that play boutique instruments. We're the KIDS of baby boomers. Most real boomers are into their Fender Nostalgia...they want the basses of their childhood.

you'd be surprised how many 20+ aged musicians look up to Hendrix, Zeppelin, SRV etc.

but since you asked for it the Killerz, the Kooks, Coldplay, The XX, Rihana, Arctic Monkeys, Bruno Mars, Green Day, Fall Out Boy, Taylor Swift, Muse, Biffy Clyro, Bloc Party, Foo Fighters, Foster The People not to mention classic teenage favourites such as Maiden....all feature Fender playing bassists. need more? just open up your tv and have a go at some Indie rock video clips - you'll see 90% of the guys there playing Fenders, 5% Rickenbackers and the rest playing oddball 60's and 70's basses (Harmony, Danelectro, Gibson Grabbers etc.).

don't take what I'm saying personally - I didn't hint for a second that hippie sandwich basses were lesser to Fenders, just that they fell out of fashion and even among the boutique makers you'll be hard pressed to find many who make neck through laminated designs.
bolt on designs, on the other hand, you'll find plenty with the majority of are still based on Fenders such as Lakland, Alleva Coppollo, Sadowsky, Lull, Valenti while others are still bolt ons with a top laminate at most such as Zon, Roscoe, most of what Ken Smith and Pedulla makes - even Michael Tobias moved away from the hippie sandwich thing.
nothing wrong with that - I'd love me a hippie sandwich Alembic Series I or a more earthly Aria SB1000 but you wont see many kids playing them due to pricing and you surely won't find many of these at the hands of the current crop of bassists on MTV - they just aren't considered "in vauge" right now (as opposed to the late 70s, early 80s) except maybe for the set neck Foderas in the Jazz/Fusion world but hey, when have you heard Bona or Wooten on FM radio the last time?
 
you'd be surprised how many 20+ aged musicians look up to Hendrix, Zeppelin, SRV etc.

but since you asked for it the Killerz, the Kooks, Coldplay, The XX, Rihana, Arctic Monkeys, Bruno Mars, Green Day, Fall Out Boy, Taylor Swift, Muse, Biffy Clyro, Bloc Party, Foo Fighters, Foster The People not to mention classic teenage favourites such as Maiden....all feature Fender playing bassists. need more? just open up your tv and have a go at some Indie rock video clips - you'll see 90% of the guys there playing Fenders, 5% Rickenbackers and the rest playing oddball 60's and 70's basses (Harmony, Danelectro, Gibson Grabbers etc.).

don't take what I'm saying personally - I didn't hint for a second that hippie sandwich basses were lesser to Fenders, just that they fell out of fashion and even among the boutique makers you'll be hard pressed to find many who make neck through laminated designs.
bolt on designs, on the other hand, you'll find plenty with the majority of are still based on Fenders such as Lakland, Alleva Coppollo, Sadowsky, Lull, Valenti while others are still bolt ons with a top laminate at most such as Zon, Roscoe, most of what Ken Smith and Pedulla makes - even Michael Tobias moved away from the hippie sandwich thing.
nothing wrong with that - I'd love me a hippie sandwich Alembic Series I or a more earthly Aria SB1000 but you wont see many kids playing them due to pricing and you surely won't find many of these at the hands of the current crop of bassists on MTV - they just aren't considered "in vauge" right now (as opposed to the late 70s, early 80s) except maybe for the set neck Foderas in the Jazz/Fusion world but hey, when have you heard Bona or Wooten on FM radio the last time?

En vogue

But yeah you're right
 
you'd be surprised how many 20+ aged musicians look up to Hendrix, Zeppelin, SRV etc.

but since you asked for it the Killerz, the Kooks, Coldplay, The XX, Rihana, Arctic Monkeys, Bruno Mars, Green Day, Fall Out Boy, Taylor Swift, Muse, Biffy Clyro, Bloc Party, Foo Fighters, Foster The People not to mention classic teenage favourites such as Maiden....all feature Fender playing bassists. need more? just open up your tv and have a go at some Indie rock video clips - you'll see 90% of the guys there playing Fenders, 5% Rickenbackers and the rest playing oddball 60's and 70's basses (Harmony, Danelectro, Gibson Grabbers etc.).

don't take what I'm saying personally - I didn't hint for a second that hippie sandwich basses were lesser to Fenders, just that they fell out of fashion and even among the boutique makers you'll be hard pressed to find many who make neck through laminated designs.
bolt on designs, on the other hand, you'll find plenty with the majority of are still based on Fenders such as Lakland, Alleva Coppollo, Sadowsky, Lull, Valenti while others are still bolt ons with a top laminate at most such as Zon, Roscoe, most of what Ken Smith and Pedulla makes - even Michael Tobias moved away from the hippie sandwich thing.
nothing wrong with that - I'd love me a hippie sandwich Alembic Series I or a more earthly Aria SB1000 but you wont see many kids playing them due to pricing and you surely won't find many of these at the hands of the current crop of bassists on MTV - they just aren't considered "in vauge" right now (as opposed to the late 70s, early 80s) except maybe for the set neck Foderas in the Jazz/Fusion world but hey, when have you heard Bona or Wooten on FM radio the last time?

:rollno:

You do realize that while I play several boutique instruments I also own and have owned dozens of Fenders, right? And you do realize that I (earlier in this thread) stated clearly that I don't expect Fender to do ANYTHING that they haven't been doing for oh... 60 years at this point.

At no point did I also claim anything was lesser or greater, although keep reading whatever you like into what I say. What do I know...I'm just a non-baby boomer who owns a variety of Fender and non-fender instruments.

I'm just pointing out that a lot of your 'reasoning' is merely supposition. Much of the same old Fender fanboy boilerplate. I'll let you know the first time I show up for a gig or a recording session and the engineer moans about me not using a Fender bass.
 
Why not just let Fender keep doing what it's been doing? I'm perfectly fine with it churning out sunburst P-Bass after sunburst P-Bass. If I desire something else, I'll go somewhere else. And if Fender decides to do something new, something unprecedented, I'll try it out. It's not like there isn't anyone who will build your 9 string 31" scale dream bass. Let Fender do what it (seems) to do best. If you desire a 35" five string with 24 frets and a 3 band EQ, buy an Ibanez. If you want a "perfect" recreation of a Candy Apple Red over Black over Shell Pink super ultra rare vintage deluxe double bound slab 1960 stack knob Jazz Bass that you saw on SNL in 1981 for 30 seconds, there are dozens of custom shops willing to build that for you. Some even with Leo's name on it.

The point? I don't see how arguing over theoretical instruments and Fender's business plan is productive. If one company doesn't produce exactly what you want, you can go to another company that can. And some people only want sunburst P-basses anyway.
 
Let's not forget what the OP asked - where does Fender go next? IMO Fender will continue to sell the same Ps and Js and Teles and Strats in an assortment of colors and configurations while dabbling in the odd out-of-band offerings.

However, I would welcome the Fender Custom Line (tm), maybe made in Mexico, China or other beyond-the-border facility. In fact I would like to order a 5-string J bass body/neck with a P-46 pickup and, because I am old, I would really like it to be a Fender.
 
:rollno:

You do realize that while I play several boutique instruments I also own and have owned dozens of Fenders, right? And you do realize that I (earlier in this thread) stated clearly that I don't expect Fender to do ANYTHING that they haven't been doing for oh... 60 years at this point.

At no point did I also claim anything was lesser or greater, although keep reading whatever you like into what I say. What do I know...I'm just a non-baby boomer who owns a variety of Fender and non-fender instruments.

I don't see how any of above relates to anything I wrote so far.
I think it was pretty clear I'm not vouching for Fender, just offering my reasoning for Fender's P and J commonness as an alternative to Two Fingers' conspiracy theory about Nashville's boss men pulling the strings and forcing every bassist in the world to play a Fender or remain jobless.
[/QUOTE]

I'm just pointing out that a lot of your 'reasoning' is merely supposition. Much of the same old Fender fanboy boilerplate. I'll let you know the first time I show up for a gig or a recording session and the engineer moans about me not using a Fender bass.

this has nothing to do with being a Fender fanboy or not - it's my explanation to why Fender is more popular than other brands - you don't have to agree with it, you can stick with the far fetched Dan Brown like cult of Nashville explanation and I assure you I won't hold it against you (well, maybe a little).
 
I agree. I would like to see a Fender 5 string Jaguar Deluxe though. I like the chrome and the looks of the Deluxe and the Squier version just doesn't cut it for me (although, I'm sure it plays fine). She just doesn't have the look I like.

I can play any bass I want and I can afford any bass I want, even an MTD. While I do have a few others, the ones that get almost all my calls for the past 10 years are Fenders. I find it more than just a little insulting that anti-Fender people think people only buy Fenders because of peer pressure and lack of finances and would really rather play something else.

Yup. Jimmy nailed it. I play ps and js because I like how they feel, play and sound. No other reason at all. It does help that they have that totally killer classic sound for any kind of music I want to play.

As far as what I would like to see from Fender -

USA (but not custom shop) Cabronita P basses and Jaguar basses. I love the look and sound of the Custom Shop editions but would like better qc and parts than the mexi ones. Real TV jones pickups especially.

A few more Road Worn models - I absolutely adore the feel of the necks on both my road worn p and j basses. I like them much more than the American Standards or even Deluxe basses I have played. Along these lines a US made, nitro, slightly relic'ed line would be great. More colors would be great. The whole sunburst thing can get a little boring sometimes. And while I love fiesta red another color or two wouldn't hurt.

More nitro in general would be nice. It is bordering on impossible to buy a jazz bass in nitro outside of the custom shop, the road worn or the 64 reissue. I don't want to get into an argument of poly v nitro but I prefer the feel.

One last thing is that I would like to see Fender release a double bound p or j bass - kinda like a Tele custom. Like an Aerodyne but without all the other crap and double bound. I think that would be super cool.
 
I'd really love to see more Fender short/medium scale basses

hey Fender! here are some free ideas:

Mustang Bass:
mustangbass_zps65ab1880.jpg


Shortscale Jazzmaster Bass
ShortscaleJazzmasterBass_zps0bcfef99.jpg


Mediumscale Telemaster Bass
MediumscaleTelemasterBass_zpsedeb4518.jpg


:D
 
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I've said this before, I'll say it again:

Fender has too many models. it's great they are trying to please all tastes (Fender has 60 models, and 30 for Squier), but many are redundant.

My suggestion is:

Produce 3 "tiers" of basses-

1) Modern
2) Vintage
3) Budget

Modern would mean American Standards, available in an insane amount of colors, and available in fretless, 5-string, and left handed.

Vintage would be what it is now; American Vintage series, again with a ton of colors and options.

Budget would be the current MIM standards, with all options.

This way you are down to about 20-30 models, no redundancy, more focus on quality, and can be sold for less than the current offerings.