Which 12" Speaker?

[snowdan]

well i have this ~70 litre cab for a 12" driver.

currently there is some cheap driver in it. works at home but not too impressive.

as i plan to use that cab with a poweramp (preamp will be my MB150) for club gigs, and have only little money to spend, i am looking for a powerful 12". i know the delta 12lf is an obvious choice but i would like to have some more high end response. i don't want a tweeter.

which speaker under 100 Euros/dollars could do the job?

 

[bgavin]

Eminence Delta 12LF and Delta 12a are a perfect match for 70L.

The Delta 12a has a lot less bottom, but more highs.

 

[Jim Dombrowski]

It's not just a matter of buying a 12" speaker because you have a cabinet. You need to choose a speaker whose Thiel/Small parameters will work within that box. I can't help you with the specifics, but you could post your question here:

http://audioroundtable.com/ProSpeakers/

 

[snowdan]

Eminence Delta 12LF is a perfect match for 70L.

well that's a good speaker for sure from what i have read.

but i am a bit concerned that it may lack the highs i need. will be playing fingerstlye through it, TI flats. funk/soul band. or will that be fine? doesn't have to be the clearest sound on earth.

are there any sound files available that give an idea of how an elctric bass sounds through a 12lf?

 

[fdeck]

You could look up the frequency where the Delta 12LF drops off, and simulate the effect with EQ to get an idea.

Are you using the MB150 combo or head?

 

[greenboy]

The neo Deltalite II 2512 will work there and it's light, though you might want to look at retuning the cab. Won't have the LF extension, but it's going to be more efficient and has better top end / polar response.

 

[snowdan]

the MB will be underpowered i am afraid, so i will try to get some budget powderamp.

and the delta 12lf is power-hungry i think...


will the delta 12lf sound duller than the MB150 speaker or less dull?

 

[bgavin]

The Deltalite-II 2512 requires 100 to 131 liters. Put into a 70L box, it will have a mid-bass hump and fast rolloff below that.

The Delta 12a is good to 5,000 Hz.
The Delta 12LF is good to 2,500 Hz.

 

[fdeck]

Same dull. Just to fill in with some data, the MB150 speaker also rolls off at around 2000 to 2500 Hz. It has a roughly 2 to 3 dB hump (from eyeballing the measured response curve) and an 85 Hz cutoff. Above the hump, around 200 Hz, I informally pegged the sensitivity at 93 dB/2.83V/1m. "Small, loud, and low" is busily at work with this speaker. I am sure the hump contributes to the "surprisingly loud" comment often made about the MB150.

 

[snowdan]

ahh, now i remember...i have seen the graph you posted months ago i think.

well if i can get away with the sound of my GK, then the delta 12LF should get me through some club gigs. it's simply the cheapest solution of getting a gig-ready cab. like 70 euros.

i can rather live with lacking highs than with no groovy bass. and i will even play a 6 through it...

 

[alexclaber]

The Delta 12LF does very nicely on the bottom - and you could always add a cone mid or large horn tweeter when you have the funds (front baffle space withstanding)...

Alex

 

[snowdan]

little extra space available, the average tweeter would fit, or say a 5".

but in the first place i need something to fill small clubs w/o PA and medium stages.

i think the delta 12lf will be it.

 

[broerevb]

Beyma sm212: 350 watt rms, x-max of 7 mm, on axis response to 6KHz. Here in Belgium I bought it at 108 euro's.

 

[bgavin]

Out of all the drivers in my spread sheet (so far), the two Deltas are the exact fit for 70L.

Tune the 12LF properly for BB4 at 51 Hz, and I think you will be very pleased with the results.

Don't expect this to be a power house cab with low B at this tuning. You have to increase cab size to 136L and tune it down to 45 Hz to get a lower F3. This is 2x the cabinet volume, and there are better solutions when using a big cabinet.

 

[snowdan]

i dont't epect it to shake earth. it will be a simple solution for the next months, which i can leave in the rehearsal room without worries and gig with now and then. the cab is solid birch plywood, light and did cost next to nothing.

my little GK MB150 simply won't keep up with drums, horns, and everything. too bad i sold my workinman's 15, that would be the right amp now.

 

[snowdan]

Beyma sm212: 350 watt rms, x-max of 7 mm, on axis response to 6KHz. Here in Belgium I bought it at 108 euro's.

hell! that's finally an x-max. sure it's not the max mechanical excursion?

how does it sound for bass?

 

[snowdan]

BEYMA SM212:

Key Features
- High power handling (300 w AES)
- Excellent sensitivity: 98 dB
- 2.5” (62.4 mm) copper voice-coil with polyimide fiber glass former
- Optimum winding length for increased linear excursion
- Lightweight curvilinear cone
- Designed for low-mid frequencies reproduction


Technical Specifications
Nominal diameter 300 mm. 12 in.
Rated impedance 8 ohms.
Minimum impedance 6.8 ohms.
Power capacity 300 w AES
Program power 600 w
Sensitivity 98 dB 2.83v @ 1m @ 2pi
Frequency range 45 - 6000 Hz
Recom. enclosure vol. 30 / 100 l 1.06 / 3.53 ft.3
Voice coil diameter 62.4 mm. 2.5 in.
Magnetic assembly weight 3.8 kg. 8.38 lb.
BL Factor 12.8 N / A
Moving mass 0.044 kg.
Voice coil length 20 mm.
Air gap height 7 mm.
X Damage (peak to peak) 27 mm.



DOES THAT SOUND LIKE A GOOD SPEAKER?

it would stretch my budget but hey...

frequency response curve shows relatively flat response up to 5khz or so, as opposed to the 2khz-eminence-peak.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

frequency response curve shows relatively flat response up to 5khz

Assuming that's on axis it's next to meaningless. Off-axis is what really counts as far as high frequencies are concerned. You probably won't be able to find 30 and 45 degree off-axis plots for either driver, so in the abscence of those ignore anything above 2kHz for both, as it's moot.

 

[bgavin]

The optimal box size is 111 to 123 liter with F3 in the low to mid 40Hz range.

The SM-212 data sheet shows a response plot for a 70L box. The smaller box would result in a mid-bass hump and faster rolloff below the hump.

Xmax/Xlim are both good. On-axis response is good to 4500 Hz. Off-axis rolls off rapidly above 800 Hz, due to beaming.

 

[snowdan]

does that say i should rather save 50 bucks and get the delta 12lf?