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Which 12" Speaker?

#21
I suggest modeling all three in WinISD or preferably, WinISD Pro. The spreadsheet does not tell the whole story, with the "Deltalite II should be in 100-130 liters" (or whatever it was bit, or the mention of a "hump" (is .5 dB the kind of hump that is a problem? - in this case I think not). The truth is, Eminence itself rates the DLII as being a good fit on their datasheet, and the sim software bears this out. Further, it has twice the xmax as the Delta 12 A, a very similar response and sensitivity, and weighs less. The Delta12LF DOES have a little bass extension but pays for it bigtime in senstivity/efficiency and upper mids/treble.

So model these puppies! That shows what a spreadsheet doesn't. Look at not only freq but group delay, and cone movement, and maximum SPL. And look at the Eminenece datasheets/graphs, and notice that the Deltalite II 2012 is actually used in a number of cabs of similar size and has been well recieved.
 
#22
greenboy said:
The spreadsheet does not tell the whole story, with the "Deltalite II should be in 100-130 liters" (or whatever it was bit, or the mention of a "hump" (is .5 dB the kind of hump that is a problem? - in this case I think not). The truth is, Eminence itself rates the DLII as being a good fit on their datasheet, and the sim software bears this out.
Click to expand...
I politely call them as I see them. One cannot hear tone of voice on the Internet, but "whatever it was bit" sure sounds disrepectful to me. I've noticed this tone in a number of your posts now. Are you really young, or is this just your manner?

As to spread sheets, you have no idea what my design sheets do, because I wrote them and you did not. My design sheets and intellectual property are kept private and not available on my public library. Graphing spread sheets provide more hard data than WinISD, plus I have have control over any bugs from implementing the formulas. Please do not disrespect something you have never seen.

I never argue acceptable receptance of a design. That is entirely subjective and therefore open to debate. If Eminence wants to enclose them in tight cabinets, that is their perogative. However, the T/S data for a given driver does dictate cabinet volumes for various published alignments. All the marketing in the world doesn't change this.
 
#23
Was not disrespectiing anything. Merely did not wish to skim back in the thread and but to still address the point(s). Perhaps we should both just stick to the data and not make assumptions about character. I sure didn't say anything about YOU - just the topic at hand. Including what the current DLII datasheet says, of course ; }

Did not diss the database. Merely suggested that an all-points set of graphs showing many properties including max cone excursion at whatever signal level, comparative freq plots, group delays. etc is a much more comprehensive and revealing way to both evaluate and design than a few STOCK alignments, which, after all, are often points of departure, and not absolute bests.

Short of extended hearing, seeing is, if not believing, a great aid.
 
#24
greenboy said:
Did not diss the database. Merely suggested that an all-points set of graphs showing many properties including max cone excursion at whatever signal level, comparative freq plots, group delays. etc is a much more comprehensive and revealing way to both evaluate and design than a few STOCK alignments, which, after all, are often points of departure, and not absolute bests.
Click to expand...

I guess you still don't get it. I work from an extensive library of graphing spread sheets for these drivers. These are entirely separate from my publicly available database. The calculate thermally and mechanically limited SPL by frequency, excursion, impedance, group delay, gain, etc.

WinISD is great for those who need pretty pictures. It is also a good interactive tool for those who know how to use it. WinISD is not the only tool in the shed.
 
#25
greenboy said:
I suggest modeling all three in WinISD or preferably, WinISD Pro. The spreadsheet does not tell the whole story, with the "Deltalite II should be in 100-130 liters" (or whatever it was bit, or the mention of a "hump" (is .5 dB the kind of hump that is a problem? - in this case I think not). The truth is, Eminence itself rates the DLII as being a good fit on their datasheet, and the sim software bears this out. Further, it has twice the xmax as the Delta 12 A, a very similar response and sensitivity, and weighs less. The Delta12LF DOES have a little bass extension but pays for it bigtime in senstivity/efficiency and upper mids/treble.
well recieved.
Click to expand...


well i found a deltalite 2512 II for 79 euros. order is placed.

should make for a good lightweigt 12" solution.
 
#27
That's cheaper than what I paid in the States. I think you will be happy with the 2512-ii driver in the 70 liter box. It will have more bass and higher overall sensitivity than the MB150 combo.

There is a past thread, worth searching for, where it is described how to measure the port tuning frequency. That would be doing just to confirm that you don't need to re-tune it.
 
#28
is there any danger for the speaker coming from arbitrary port tuning? in terms of over-excursion or whatever?

@fdeck: is there any reason to buy a backline 600 or would that only be only a minor improvement over my MB150? thinking of the combo as an amp head only. i am a bit worried about driving the combo at full power, it can get quite hot and i don't want to ruin it.
 
#29
snowdan said:
is there any danger for the speaker coming from arbitrary port tuning? in terms of over-excursion or whatever?

@fdeck: is there any reason to buy a backline 600 or would that only be only a minor improvement over my MB150? thinking of the combo as an amp head only. i am a bit worried about driving the combo at full power, it can get quite hot and i don't want to ruin it.
Click to expand...
The danger from over-excursion seems minimal, as most bass boxes have port tuning close enough to 40 Hz. Also, the Eminence driver has a generous Xmech (the excursion limit where damage occurs) so I think you would hear the "farting" before damaging the driver.

What are the dimensions of the port?

My rig is slightly different. I put the 2512-ii into a very small box, resulting in a response curve identical to the MB combo, but with about 3 dB higher sensitivity. The BL600 gives me another 3 dB. These numbers are approximate, but the sum is a ~6 dB gain. In actual use, this "big rig" is considerably louder than the combo.

In the past, I have run the combo at full power for entire gigs, and it got hot but never shut down.

Note that I have a review of the BL600 with some technical details at my little web site.
 
#30
decisive issue: is your bl 600 man enough to get everything out of the deltalite? or would a more powerful amp get any louder with that speaker?

i will buy an amp sooner or later and am very partial to GK. i am still kicking myself in the butt for selling my 700rb.
 
#31
I think the BL600 is man enough. The reason is that the 2512-ii should be running close to the excursion limit when the BL600 is close to clipping. That's according to the best calculations that I could come up with.

With that said, I have never experienced excursion limiting that I was able to discern with my rig using 4-string electric bass. But I was able to make it fart out with the subharmonic thump generated by a piezo upright bass pickup.
 
#33
Such a high port tuning is indeed dangerous. The cone is unsupported at low frequencies, and will be easy to push to over-excursion. But changing the driver did not change the port tuning, so it must have been too high all along.

Is it a single port? What is the inside diameter?

With a "small ported box" design, the port is dual-purpose. Actually, this is always the case. The port extends the bass response, but it also protects the driver from over-excursion. The second purpose compels you to get the port tuning down into 40 Hz territory.
 
#35
so: 69,5 liters internal volume.

front baffle hole is 100mm wide, board is 18mms thick.

inside that sticks a 75mm wide tube, that is 45mms long. tube in tube, if you will.

so i have either teh raw hole or i can have another tube length from the 75mm tube.

is there a way to make a proper tuning with these things?

or should i close it to be safe in the next few days?
 
#36
fdeck said:
Such a high port tuning is indeed dangerous. The cone is unsupported at low frequencies, and will be easy to push to over-excursion. But changing the driver did not change the port tuning, so it must have been too high all along
Click to expand...
Quite true. The most often used fb is 50 Hz, low enough that the driver isn't unloaded but high enough to get some midbass bump. 68 Hz will get plenty of bump, the box will sound loud, but it will not go low.
 

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