"Luddite", in modern usage, has the meaning of someone who is afraid of, or has an extreme distaste for, new technology (that is, the OP used it correctly).
You have correctly identified its etymological origin.
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Which basses for worship music?
- Thread starter hentor
- Start date
"Luddite", in modern usage, has the meaning of someone who is afraid of, or has an extreme distaste for, new technology (that is, the OP used it correctly).
You have correctly identified its etymological origin.
Jim Carr
Dr. Jim
- Jan 21, 2006
- 16,223
- 7,613
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- Disclosures
- fEARful Kool-Aid dispensing liberal academic card-carrying union member Musicians Local 72-147
I asked this on the last "what bass for worship" thread. I mean no disrespect.
In what way does "worship bass" inherently require a different instrument from any other musical application?
As I noted in the last thread when I asked this, a tone suitable to performance with a large body of voices might be a consideration, but there are so many variables between sanctuaries, sound support, music programs, congregation, not to mention repertoire/performance standards and bass player skill!
To paraphrase Ghostbusters, there is no "worship bass," is only bass (IMHO).
Style, personal preference, what the leader asks for, etc., etc. How is this fundamentally different from any band? OK, the gig is usually in the same place and same time...
In what way does "worship bass" inherently require a different instrument from any other musical application?
As I noted in the last thread when I asked this, a tone suitable to performance with a large body of voices might be a consideration, but there are so many variables between sanctuaries, sound support, music programs, congregation, not to mention repertoire/performance standards and bass player skill!
To paraphrase Ghostbusters, there is no "worship bass," is only bass (IMHO).
Style, personal preference, what the leader asks for, etc., etc. How is this fundamentally different from any band? OK, the gig is usually in the same place and same time...
I asked this on the last "what bass for worship" thread. I mean no disrespect.
In what way does "worship bass" inherently require a different instrument from any other musical application?
As I noted in the last thread when I asked this, a tone suitable to performance with a large body of voices might be a consideration, but there are so many variables between sanctuaries, sound support, music programs, congregation, not to mention repertoire/performance standards and bass player skill!
To paraphrase Ghostbusters, there is no "worship bass," is only bass (IMHO).
Style, personal preference, what the leader asks for, etc., etc. How is this fundamentally different from any band? OK, the gig is usually in the same place and same time...
I agree. I know in urban gospel, boutique, coffee table table basses are very popular, but I suspect that the fact that Andrew Gouche, Fred Hammond, and Joel Smith, liked a certain sound and everybody just followed them. I know that players like Maurice Fitzgerald and Dale Black sound great in church using Fenders and Laklands.
Huge +1 here.
I play at my church and we have a medium-sized sanctuary with a moderately-sophisticated sound system. We play urban gospel and some P&W but overall, it's traditional "Black Baptist Church" music.
These aren't us but they are PERFECT examples of our style.
We have pretty typical instrumentation (Hammond Organ/Grand Piano/Electric Keyboard/Drummer/Guitar/Bass with Trumpet and Misc. percussionist thrown in) Trouble is, the bass setup is an old GK head with a single 15" cab and the sound people are indifferent (at best) to the wishes of the Music ministry -- all they care about is how the recordings of the service come out.
The long-time bassist who plays most of the services plays a passive Alvarez P/J 5-string and he rolls completely off his tone control. Despite my nice MTD's & Lakland, I sometimes feel that I could be playing a MIM jazz and overall, it wouldn't make that big of a difference.
Your choice will really depend on what works best for your situation/envirinment.
I have used MIA Fender J Active Deluxe 5's, Roscoes 5's, Warwick Thumb 5's... but nothing has sounded better (to me)than my Sadowsky J's (with the Fender taking second place). Of course you can always go for a Ken Smith or MTD USA.
I asked this on the last "what bass for worship" thread. I mean no disrespect.
In what way does "worship bass" inherently require a different instrument from any other musical application?
As I noted in the last thread when I asked this, a tone suitable to performance with a large body of voices might be a consideration, but there are so many variables between sanctuaries, sound support, music programs, congregation, not to mention repertoire/performance standards and bass player skill!
To paraphrase Ghostbusters, there is no "worship bass," is only bass (IMHO).
Style, personal preference, what the leader asks for, etc., etc. How is this fundamentally different from any band? OK, the gig is usually in the same place and same time...
Okay, no disrespect taken at all here. However you missed one of the primary aspects in my initial question: I am starting the music program from nothing. I have been asked to be the MD/leader and work from what I can get from the growing congregation.
What I have found is that most modern worship music I have seen utilizes extended range instruments and I, being somewhat of a traditionalist (trained on Double Bass Viol, Simandl method et. al.) have found most 5-string and above basses to be overly cramped and active pickups to add too much noise for my liking. However that does not go away from the fact that much of the small amount of music I have seen often uses low D's low C's and sometimes, gasp, even a B.
I was merely asking for opinions regarding if a 5, 6, etc.-string bass is necessary and if so, what would folks recommend me to start looking at given my tastes in instrumentation.
I am the start of said music program, currently there is a Cassavante Brothers Pipe Organ which is under renovation, a funky old upright piano that was donated to the church and little more. I have donated some of my equipment to get them started and am helping get a suitable sound system installed as I discovered the sound system they are using has 4 channels and is entirely tube powered (sounds good once I retubed it but not enough channels for modern use).
However at the moment aside from the 10 voice choir and pianist (me), there is little going on musically. This is the start and I want to do things right and I want to lay the appropriate foundation, so to speak.
You will not be disappointed with a 5'er for worship and may find you use the B string more than you expect. If you ever get into doing some solos, a 6 can be just the ticket (I'm using a 7 and find it's great for trading off melodies with others in the team).
As for "the right bass", any bass will be impacted by technique and the amp/PA used to project your sound. A specific bass in different hands, using a different attack, running through a different sound source is going to sound different. Spend a day at the local music store and take time playing as many basses as you can.
As for "the right bass", any bass will be impacted by technique and the amp/PA used to project your sound. A specific bass in different hands, using a different attack, running through a different sound source is going to sound different. Spend a day at the local music store and take time playing as many basses as you can.
We are in a big church that has an poor sound system. The P bass gets swallowed by the acoustics of the place, so I switched to the Fender Geddy Lee and I can get the tone out now. With the P bass, I had to have the treble cranked on my amp to get anything the congregation could hear. The jazz cuts through - plus the band loves my new sound
. If you have a great sound system, then any bass that matches your style of play, music, etc. will be fine.
. If you have a great sound system, then any bass that matches your style of play, music, etc. will be fine.
What a lot of nonsense. If you want a 5er then get one. You don't NEED a 5er for modern worship. You cannot say that a 4er is inadequate for worship.
Just get a bass you love.
Davo
Just get a bass you love.
Davo
Jim Carr
Dr. Jim
- Jan 21, 2006
- 16,223
- 7,613
- 76
- Disclosures
- fEARful Kool-Aid dispensing liberal academic card-carrying union member Musicians Local 72-147
Actually, while I did not respond, I did not miss that point. You are certainly right to ask for advice on basses, if you feel you need it.
A lot of players of 4 string basses play music that has been recorded or is scored for a 5 string. It is the same as with 4-string double bass without a C extension. You just transpose in a musical way, and everyone is fine. This, IMHO, is not an issue unique to "worship bass."
I play active and passive basses. IMHO, passive basses, especially those with single coil pickups, are much noisier than passive basses.
FYI, pipe organ might have a 32 foot stop, sounding C below the lowest A on the piano (16 hz). This is an Octave below the low C on the BEADG 5-string bass.
IMHO, the bass player matters more than the bass, but that is obvious and not useful. What is your budget for a bass?
A 5-string P-bass is a nice instrument, especially for finger style playing--have you played one? The new American Standards are nice. 5-strings are about $1200. The Jazz might be a bit more flexible if slap style is in your repertoire.
+1 on this one. If your playing Tomlin, Redman, Baloche, etc. then a 5er isn't necessary. A 5er will work but not necessary.
"worship bass" doesn't mean much to me. You can make any bass work in a Worship band just by changing the way you play.
Same goes for any other musical setting really, but this is key in contemporary Christian music especially, going across different styles.
Four string should be more than enough, but if you go for a five, it won't hurt.
Same goes for any other musical setting really, but this is key in contemporary Christian music especially, going across different styles.
Four string should be more than enough, but if you go for a five, it won't hurt.
I'm thinking that in your case you'd be in good hands getting either a Lakland 55-02, DJ5, JO5, or something along those lines. Maybe even a Fender PJ or some other PJ would work. You have the P pup cutting through and you have the J pup giving you all the growl and punch and high end pop in the bridge position. Try to get one that's passive or has an act./pass. switch. I know Nino Valenti makes a passive PJ and he seems to have a good reputation around here. Plus, his prices are great compared to all the other high-end jazz bass builders. He could whip you up one just like you want. I've got a jazz coming to me in a few months.
Those videos really hit home. Play whatever bass the Lord lays before you. Convey the spirit. Bring the congregation into the Spirit.
If you like wide string spacing, get a 5 string with 19mm spacing at the bridge. I know that I always feel more at home with a bigger neck. You should get a used Pedulla Rapture in a JJ or PJ setup with 19mm spacing. They can be had used for about $1000 and sound amazing. I used to have one until I got my MVP6. Wish I still had it for a couple of tunes.
To me its all about how the bass sounds mixed with the band in the church sanctuary.
My choice came down to 3 factors.
1. the room accoustics: (ability to have a clear presence within the correct frequency ranges. Our church has low ceilings and we tend to get standing wave on stage.
in this enviornment My P-Bass is to thuddy and it makes the band sound to boomy.
2. My ability to hear myself in the monitors: If the monitor mix is off and I cant hear my intonation, Then my FRETLESS is difficult to play accurately
3. The ability of the soundman to mix the room:I like that low tone ability of my Kubicki EX-Factor for worship. The preamp in the kubicki colors the tone of the bass and only one of our 3 sound guys knows how to mix it in well with out it over driving the frequencies of the keyboard and some guitar parts.
MY CHoice!!! The cleanest sounding bass that has the best onboard EQ flexibility in most gig situations that I presently own is my WARWICK INFINITY SN. It always sounds great in the modern and traditional worship music that we play.
I use nickle DR Sunbeams which i feel ad a lot of demention to the sound when playing chords and melodic lines like the Third Day stuff. or More than Life and Surrender where it gets a little darker in the mood. I think the sunbeams improve the tone of any bass.
I hope these are helpful observations for you.
My choice came down to 3 factors.
1. the room accoustics: (ability to have a clear presence within the correct frequency ranges. Our church has low ceilings and we tend to get standing wave on stage.
in this enviornment My P-Bass is to thuddy and it makes the band sound to boomy.
2. My ability to hear myself in the monitors: If the monitor mix is off and I cant hear my intonation, Then my FRETLESS is difficult to play accurately
3. The ability of the soundman to mix the room:I like that low tone ability of my Kubicki EX-Factor for worship. The preamp in the kubicki colors the tone of the bass and only one of our 3 sound guys knows how to mix it in well with out it over driving the frequencies of the keyboard and some guitar parts.
MY CHoice!!! The cleanest sounding bass that has the best onboard EQ flexibility in most gig situations that I presently own is my WARWICK INFINITY SN. It always sounds great in the modern and traditional worship music that we play.
I use nickle DR Sunbeams which i feel ad a lot of demention to the sound when playing chords and melodic lines like the Third Day stuff. or More than Life and Surrender where it gets a little darker in the mood. I think the sunbeams improve the tone of any bass.
I hope these are helpful observations for you.
JMHO, but I don't really think it matters much, as the players at the two church's I play at have such a wide variety, and as mentioned the 'interest' level of most 'volunteer' sound board operators leaves me pretty much wondering just what I actually do sound like in the house during the mix ... my personal opinion is that it be a solid, complimentary bassline to the vocals, keys and guitars, in that order ... just a few of what other BP'ers bring to play here are a very inexpensive Ibanez from the beginner package, a mid priced Peavey passive 4, a MIM Jazz 4, one church owned bass is a passive Fernandez, and my regular church owns an '04 Hwy 1 P ... I have a 60's Classic Jazz ... nuthin fancy here, but then how we play isnt either ...
