Dismiss Notice

Psst... Ready to join TalkBass and start posting, make new friends, sell your gear, and more?  Register your free account in 30 seconds.

which cab gives more volume?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by ::::BASSIST::::, Dec 30, 2004.


  1. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    In my quest to put together an ultra-light rig which cab specs would give me the most volume:

    4ohms + 220 watts + 93db sensitivity
    8ohms +140 watts + 97db sensitivity

    i know that more sensitiviy = more volume but is that true even with 80 more watts?
     
  2. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    What bass guitar cabs have sensitivity ratings that low??? Holy crap, 93db?????

    FWIW, the 97db cab will be MUCH louder, but still not up to par with the loudness of most popular-market bass cabs.
     
  3. jdagger

    jdagger

    Nov 21, 2004
    Watt for Watt the 97 dB @ 1w/1m sensitivity will produce more sound for a given input. I believe a 3dB increase is considered perceptible to the human ear.

    I am not sure of your meaning on the watts side. If what you are quoting is the rated RMS of the speaker it has no meaning other than one speaker is rated to handle more power than the other.

    If indeed you are planning on running different wattage and that is part of your calulation here is a link to a cool SPL calculator.

    http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

    BTW...I hope this link is appropriate. I am in no way spamming for this other site.
     
  4.  
  5. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    the 93db is the ampeg portabass 110
    the 97db is the Flite 110

    i figured because the flite is 8ohms my amp can only give it 140 watts while the pb-110 is 4ohms so it will get 220 from my amp.

    so the flite with 140 watts and 97db wins over the 220watts and 93db??
     

  6. Eden Cx110 is 98db, with a low end of 36hz and top of 20Khz.
    Little cx110 cab is on the bottom. 29 lbs.
     
  7. jdagger

    jdagger

    Nov 21, 2004
    Based on your wattage input to each versus the SPL ratings of the cabs, I think you are correct. The higher sensitivity cab will win out in the SPL bake off.

    Also important though is how much you like the sound of each cab and its RMS rating compared with the levels you intend to be playing at.

    Good Luck in your seach and let us know which one you went with.
     
  8. slinkp

    slinkp

    Aug 29, 2003
    brooklyn, NY, USA
    If you run the calculator that jdagger posted a link to,
    you'll find that given the same settings for distance and placement,
    with the wattages & efficiencies you posted the 8-ohm 97 db cab comes out
    2 db ahead of the other cab, even with the wattage difference.

    But but but...

    This assumes that the cab makers measure efficiency exactly the
    same way so you're really comparing apples to apples. Even then, you
    may find that one cab "cuts" better than the other, or has more midbass,
    or otherwise has some characteristic that makes it seem perceptually
    much louder. Or you may find that in practice there's no real difference
    at all. In other words, 2 dB is a small enough difference that IMHO it
    should not be the deciding factor. You need to hear the cabs and see for
    yourself which does everything you need better.
     
  9. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    according to the VERY cool spl calculator link above the 93db at 220 = 100.7db /spl while the 97db at 140watts =102.8db/spl

    a difference of 2.1db

    i guess i will go with the flite then b/c its 8ohms and that means i can add another 8ohm cab for gigs if so needed.
     
  10. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    The 97dB/SPL box with 140watts input will play as loud as the 93dB/SPL box with about 300 watts input within their respective passbands. However, frequency response is just as important as SPL, if not more so. SPL is usually defined as the average broadband response over the usable range of the speaker, which is often, though not always, the range from f10 to f10 (10dB down from average at either end of the spectrum).

    Almost all commercial bass cabs have sensitivity in the bass range (100Hz and lower) that is significantly lower than the average SPL of the box; many have f10s as high as 80 Hz. The 93dB box could well be more efficient than the 97dB box in the bass range, something the average SPL rating won't tell you. Therefore a definitive answer to the question would require knowing not only the average SPL but also the f3 frequency (half-power) for each.

    If the f3 of the 93dB box was 40 Hz while the f3 of the 97dB box was 80 Hz, for instance, then the sensitivity of the 93 dB box at 40 Hz would be 90dB, while the sensitivity of the 97dB box at 40 Hz would be 82dB if it was a sealed cabinet, and 70dB if it was a vented box.
     
  11. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    this is getting confusing as hell!!

    the flite sound website gives very little info so i used the specs from the 12" when i am actually interested in the 10". they both have the same db at 97 so i hoping that is true for the frequency response as well.

    the flight at 97db = 35Hz–20 kHz

    the ampeg at 93db =Frequency Response (-3dB): 40 Hz - 20 kHz

    in light of what the previous poster said, do these specs help in determining which cab will be louder???
     
  12. pyrohr

    pyrohr

    Aug 28, 2001
    Pakistani compound
    GK RBH 1x15 106db @ 8ohms, 400watts, 50HZ-20KHZ
     
  13. jdagger

    jdagger

    Nov 21, 2004
    Well another cut at this might be to search in this forum for player comments on both, as well as searches on other suggested cabs you have gotten here. Specs are great but they can lead to "Analysis Paralysis." Especially when things don't match up line for line as is often the case.

    When possible, let your ears tell you what is right for you.

    Surf these forums using the search feature. There is a ton of knowledge and we will all try to help.

    I did find this on Flite and I am sure there are more. Certainly a lot of folks here write about AMPEG.

    Flite Thread in this forum

    Good Luck
     
  14. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    The problem with manufacturers specs is that they don't all adhere to the same standard, as for musical instrument speakers there is no industry wide standard. The quoted '50Hz to 20kHz' of the GK, for instance, doesn't tell you how many dB down the reponse is from average at either 50Hz or 20kHz. If it's -3dB, (as would usually be the case for high fidelity speakers) that's quite good. I can guarantee you that it is not -3dB, as no 15 inch speaker is capable of that performance. For that matter, no 15 inch speaker is capable of 106dB/SPL either unless horn loaded, so that figure is either a mis-statement by the poster or bull****by GK.

    The aforementioned "David Eden" also makes claims for bandwidth and SPL which defy logic, as there are no drivers made capable of the performance Eden claims from the cabinet design that they use.

    The only way to make a real comparison is to see an actual measured response chart. Good luck on that one.
     
  15. Hey don't dis my ten. Clinical trials prove it outperforms the tuba24/DR combo in spl and freq. response.
     
  16. pyrohr

    pyrohr

    Aug 28, 2001
    Pakistani compound

    Click on specifacations.
    http://www.gallien-krueger.com/products_artist_ca_115rbh.html
     
  17. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Like I said, GK is full of it. No fifteen inch driver produced today is capable of that level of performance from a box of that size, not even a JBL 2226. Note how GK does not show a full SPL response chart. The claimed response says +5dB, which means that at some point in the frequency spectrum there is a response spike to 106dB. The actual average SPL is likely 101dB. Also note that they don't state how many dB down the response is at 50 Hz or 20kHz. Could be 6dB, could be 60dB. Bull****, pure and simple.