Make sure to copy and paste that statement on hand for each time this convo comes up
You got it.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Double Bass Which EUB sounds most like a double bass ?
- Thread starter 6stringbassist
- Start date
You got it.
Whoa ! I predict somebody, very soon, will be incensed enough about that to take you up on both parts of that assertion
Or were you just attempting to wind up all BG players ?
Andy
- Jul 28, 2009
- 387
- 314
- Disclosures
- Is not compensated for endorsements. Does not sell for profit.
Whoa ! I predict somebody, very soon, will be incensed enough about that to take you up on both parts of that assertion
Or were you just attempting to wind up all BG players ?
Andy
I agree with the poster who stated that. Steel core, Roundwounds, Metal windings.
Sure the differences are perceivable to the player, but they don't feel or sound that much different. It's not a world of a difference like the upright bass where gut, steel, perlon or silk cores are used and where the winding can be a myriad of different materials.
Mmmm ... what happend to flatwounds, halfrounds, tapewounds, and piano/taper strings in your list ? All of which have radically different sounds and there are different feels too ... TI flats in particular are so strange in feel that a lot of people never adapt. All this is in my limited experience ... just one or two brands of each of the above types.
Do you really think that the kind of person (punter, not player) who can't hear the difference between Marcus Millers tone and Chris Woods tone (on BG) is actually going to notice the difference between guts and steels on an upright ?
Andy
My statement wasnt meant as a swipe against BG's, rather against the usual statement "...the upright sound", when in fact there is a multitude of different tones and timbres out there. Much more so with the advent of high quality electric double basses.
I understand ... but there is a also a wide spread of BGs out there. Fair enough, most BGs come off a production line, but there are large numbers of skilled BG luthiers out there. I think there's a big diversity of quality, and sounds, in both worlds. I love both Chris Wood's and Brian Bromberg's stuff on upright ... now I may be new to this stuff, but there's a pretty big gulf between those two guys.
Andy
I'm sure the Volante is wonderful if you say so, but the sound of the Eminence is nothing to sneer at, especially when paired with a good buffering pre and a decent amp.
- Jul 28, 2009
- 387
- 314
- Disclosures
- Is not compensated for endorsements. Does not sell for profit.
So if I walk into a music store that sells bass guitars, I will find many basses that have flatwounds, halfrounds, tapewounds, etc on the bass guitars "off the production line"?
What do over 90% of bass guitarists use? What type of bass guitar string do string manufacturers mostly sell? Roundwounds steel core. Sometimes nickle wound, mostly stainless steel wound.
Do you really believe that the difference between Marcus Miller's tone and Chris Wood's tone is because of the strings? Do you seriously think that Chris Wood would sound like Marcus Miller if you put DR's on his bass? Or that Marcus Miller's sound would not be distinguishable if I slapped some generic strings such as GHS Super Steels on his bass?
Let's backtrack a bit ... the original post said:
Part (a) "BG's come off a production line". Well I think that Rob Allen, Jerzy Drozd, Martin Petersen (SEI) and Jens Ritter (just for starters) might want to take you up on that.
Part (b) "and are all fitted with very similar strings". I've listed at least 4 different-sounding, different-playing kinds of string.
There seemed to be an implication that all BG's sound the same (in contrast to DB's) and so I gave you Chris Wood and Marcus Miller at opposite ends of the spectrum. I may have been incorrect in that inference, in which case I guess it was unnecessary of me to have brought out those two examples.
Andy
It doesn't take a moments thought to realise that both parts of that assertion are wrong (IMHO). That's what I was trying to point out.
Part (a) "BG's come off a production line". Well I think that Rob Allen, Jerzy Drozd, Martin Petersen (SEI) and Jens Ritter (just for starters) might want to take you up on that.
Part (b) "and are all fitted with very similar strings". I've listed at least 4 different-sounding, different-playing kinds of string.
There seemed to be an implication that all BG's sound the same (in contrast to DB's) and so I gave you Chris Wood and Marcus Miller at opposite ends of the spectrum. I may have been incorrect in that inference, in which case I guess it was unnecessary of me to have brought out those two examples.
Andy
- Jul 28, 2009
- 387
- 314
- Disclosures
- Is not compensated for endorsements. Does not sell for profit.
But Andy, you've named some makers that even combined make up less than even one thousandths of one percent of bass guitars produced every year and types of strings that are rarely found at the store. What about the other 99%? People can describe that "cars are built in factories and come with four rubber tires". I'm sure that we can find exceptions, but I wouldn't disagree with that statement.
I didnt mean my words to be all encompassing, but when you are talking about the vast majority of BG's that come off production lines, the tone is very consistent and the various types of strings only make so much difference.
On the other hand, even mass produced double basses have variation in tone. There are many more variables in the construction which contributes to the difference, and the individual setup with a bridge, tailpiece and string combo widens that gap.
When you talk about variation, you are talking about percentages, so I still stand by my original statement.
Please stop the arguments and get back on-topic or I'll close this thread.
This is my last warning.
Thanks in advance,
François
This is my last warning.
Thanks in advance,
François
As has been pointed out by some of the wiser posters HOW you play makes more difference to how you sound than anything else...play it like double bass and it will sound like a double bass. I've contended for many years now that this is the "secret" to making an EBG "sound like an upright" too.
This said I think that a certain amount of sustain is necessary to a modern amplified double bass sound. I had an Ampeg Baby Bass strung with Spirocores that only did thud with the stock pickup and didn't ever sound much like "real bass". This is a valid and interesting thread.
You are correct, sir! I found that out a number of years ago with the EBG. I tilted the bass up and played with the same attack that I would with an upright and you just wouldn't believe it. Even with roundwounds.
Are you saying Scott LaFaro, Paul Chambers or Oscar Pettiford didn't have an upright sound?
The typical gut-strung bass tone doesn't have much sustain, but I don't think it sounds less uprighty.
The Baby Bass is a different beast from either the BG or DB.
It has its own sound.
+1 to factoring in HOW you play the bass, as to whether it sounds like an amplified DB. I've heard a local player who owns a very expensive 300 year old upright that sounds like a fretless electric live on gigs, only because he uses ultra-low action, steel strings, and a Fishman BP100 PUP. Now, unamplified, that bass sounds as deep and textured as you'd expect.
Conversely, I set up my Eminence EUB (now gone) with gut strings, raised the action, and when I dug in with my attack it DEFINITELY sounded like a real amplified URB. IME/IMO of course. I look at it this way: if you're playing in an intimate trio where you have a lot of sonic space to fill up, NOTHING will beat the sound of a good-sounding URB, IMO. That is of course with the right pickup/strings/amp/etc.
However, if you need the upright to function in a loud playing situation, where all of the nuances and special qualities of a real URB won't get heard out front, then by all means consider an EUB. Ideally I'd like to own both. As it is, I'll make sure to post somem clips to this thread when I get my BSX Allegro 5 later this week.
Conversely, I set up my Eminence EUB (now gone) with gut strings, raised the action, and when I dug in with my attack it DEFINITELY sounded like a real amplified URB. IME/IMO of course. I look at it this way: if you're playing in an intimate trio where you have a lot of sonic space to fill up, NOTHING will beat the sound of a good-sounding URB, IMO. That is of course with the right pickup/strings/amp/etc.
However, if you need the upright to function in a loud playing situation, where all of the nuances and special qualities of a real URB won't get heard out front, then by all means consider an EUB. Ideally I'd like to own both. As it is, I'll make sure to post somem clips to this thread when I get my BSX Allegro 5 later this week.
No, I'm saying they didn't have what I would call a "modern amplified" steel string sound ala Ron carter or Eddie Gomez. LaFaro, Chambers and Pettiford all had beautiful sounds as does Charlie Haden today playing guts. I wasn't saying one was better than the other simply that sustain is part of the modern amplified sound if that's what you're going for on the EUB.
OK?
Well, I see your point, but that's not mine.
I'm trying to get a more traditional tone out of my EUB.
Best regards,
François
