Double Bass Which Evah pirazzi to choose?

[Viuff]

Hi there
For some time I’ve been looking for new strings. I tried some different setups, and the choice finally landed on Pirastro - Evah Pirazzi.
But it isn’t as simple as I thought, apparently there are two kinds of Evahs. Normal and weich?
What is the difference between these two sets except the tension? How about sound and playability?
I’m playing 50/50 arco/pizz. Classic and jazz.
Links to the website selling my strings:

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Thanks for your help

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Both are rather dark strings.

The regular EP is a bit more damped because of the larger synthetic core, stretches a bit less than EP Weich, has shorter sustain. Good for orchestra but for pizz only if you like a shorter sustain. Pizz attack is there but rather dark.

THe EP Weich stretches more than the regular (which might result in the separation of windings, but this might happen to the regular ones too). The sound is a bit more open and more (felt) sustain. Some people call this the EP that should be the regular one. I think the pizz attack is a bit more present than the attack of the regular. A bit more open than the regular, the regular sometimes feels a bit muffled.
But both are dark string sets and should be used with a rather bright pickup. Not much high frequency content in the pickup signal, so you must like a dark bass sound. Intonation might be problematic to hear amplified.

Some other strings you might consider are Innovation 140B (a little bit brighter and less tension, medium soft pizz attack) or 140H (probably a bit less tension and more midrange frequencies present, good pizz attack, 140H attack sounds similar to gut attack). On both sets the E and A may be a bit stiff at the beginning, with playing and/or some soft bening treatment they will open up and get better sustain.

For your kind of music I would say the EP Weich if you like it dark, the 140B if you like a bit less tension and the 140H if you like a medium strong pizz attack. If you would do a lot more arco the regular EPs might be better, depending on your taste (and bass of course).

For me both EPs have too many issues I don't like (stretch, separation of windings, very dark sound, sound problems with amplification). The fit my taste better (modern medium dark pizz sound, lower tension but not too low, amplify better, low stretching, good sustain for a multifiber synthetic string) they are only a bit quieter than the EP.
The 140H sounds a bit too old school for me, good mids but no highs. If I would like old school stuff, I would use the 140H (a bit more tension and power than 140B). The innovation strings are also cheap, you will get them free of postage (from StringExpress) in about 2 weeks, even for single strings. And the low B (if you need it) is really cheap compared to almost any other low B string.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

I have tried both and currently have the regular on my bass. The tension seems quite a bit higher than the weich and I have them set low with the G at 5mm. Any higher and my left hand starts to hurt. Although both strings are on the dark side, the regular sounds darker with a stronger fundamental and less sustain. I prefer them on my bass but may switch back to the weich because they feel quite a bit better. Either are great strings.

 

[drurb]

YMMV. Here are my experiences on my bass. Both EP versions amplified terrifically for me. The regulars were like playing on bridge cables. Way too stiff and uncomfortable, especially at the string heights I like (6-7 mm at the G, 10-11 mm at the E). As DoubleMIDI suggested, the EP weichs are really more like other manufacturer's "regulars" or "mittels," while the EP regulars are, well, like bridge cables.

Again, YMMV. I've played and heard EPs on a number of basses and don't agree with DoubleMIDI that "both...should be used with a rather bright pickup... Intonation might be problematic to hear amplified." I also never had any issues with "stretch" or "separation of windings." My experiences seem to square with many others here and you can read all the details in the megathreads here.

With strings, there are huge interactions among basses, setups, players, etc. So, experiences like DoubleMIDI's are bound to occur. What's impressive is how consistent is the experience with EPs across players and basses, relatively speaking.

By the way, my bass is somewhat dark sounding to begin with and still the EPs sounded and amplified great.

 

[Matt Ides]

I like the weichs. I had regulars on and too much tension for my left arm/hand. Not the strings for an orchestra player, but they suit my needs which is about 50/50 and practicing is pretty much 100% arco. I use them with a realist and I am very happy with my amplified sound. The only complaint was the G was scratchy on my bass so I replaced it with an Oliv G.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

If somebody like the amplification of the string depends on a lot, but the EP is a dark string and the Realist a rather dark pickup. So if somebody likes it rather dark that's fine. It also depends on the bass, of course.

I like to hear my intonation (to be able to correct it if needed, even in a louder context), so I need a brighter sounding string through the amp. But this is just my preference. Others obviously can have other preferences. It is just a kind of warning I wanted to make, even Pirastro warns about that possible amplification problem and I think they are right, at least when using a bridge foot pickup.

Some idea of a hint: If you like to pull up the bass control of your amp, you might be happy with EP, if you cut them down probably not.

 

[drurb]

Got it. Sure, as I took great pains to point out, YMMV. Still, the majority of folks find that they amplify very well. It's true that it's the higher partials that will help you to center your pitch. I just never found it to be an issue.

Where does Pirastro warn about a possible amplification problem? I can't seem to find that in their literature. It would be interesting to read what they say even though direct experience seems more telling.

 

[Viuff]

I appreciate all the feedback!

I’ll be looking in to it and figure out a way out of this jungle

Regards Viuff

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Either somewhere here on talkbass or in a personal talk with the double bass guy from Pirastro (I can't remember his name exactly at the moment). I think both or the latter. The personal warning was (more or less) "the problem (of very dark amplification sound) COULD happen, so EP might not be the best choice". This was about two years ago when I started looking out for other strings than Spiro Mittel.

Probably depends a lot on the kind of bass (carved, laminated), thickness of top, age.
I have the impression that my bass was much brighter when I bought it new about twenty years ago than now. But my luthier could have made by bass darker by repositioning the sound post I think he likes it that way. (I need to talk to him probably.)

 

[Bijoux]

another aspect to consider is how much you play...
I have EP's regular on my basses, and although many people complain about the tension if you play enough and get used to their tension you will love the amount of sound they put out.
IMO they sound fantastic for pizz and arco. I have been using these strings for Jazz and i manage to play a lot of gigs ampless, and on my b ass they also amplify very well if needed.
They sound very aggressive with arco and you can get a lot of sound without a lot of weight on the bow.
The softer gauge EP's have a great sound, maybe more similar to the Obigatos, a little darker... and although they sound great, they are very light. So when you really dig in they will choke, which is a total turn off.
I'd say if you have a light right hand go for the weichs, but if you dig in and you are looking for a more robust sound go for the regular gauge.

 

[Matt Ides]

Got it. Sure, as I took great pains to point out, YMMV. Still, the majority of folks find that they amplify very well. It's true that it's the higher partials that will help you to center your pitch. I just never found it to be an issue.

Where does Pirastro warn about a possible amplification problem? I can't seem to find that in their literature. It would be interesting to read what they say even though direct experience seems more telling.

As always every bass will react differently to strings. My current bass seems to have settled well with the EP weichs and I like the sound I get pizz/arco for my needs. That initial ping is gone, but they still sound/feel good.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

another aspect to consider is how much you play...
I have EP's regular on my basses, and although many people complain about the tension if you play enough and get used to their tension you will love the amount of sound they put out.
IMO they sound fantastic for pizz and arco. I have been using these strings for Jazz and i manage to play a lot of gigs ampless, and on my b ass they also amplify very well if needed.
They sound very aggressive with arco and you can get a lot of sound without a lot of weight on the bow.
The softer gauge EP's have a great sound, maybe more similar to the Obigatos, a little darker... and although they sound great, they are very light. So when you really dig in they will choke, which is a total turn off.
I'd say if you have a light right hand go for the weichs, but if you dig in and you are looking for a more robust sound go for the regular gauge.

To clarify my earlier post, I prefer the feel of the regulars under my right hand to the feel under my left.

The regulars can take everything my right hand gives them. With the weichs I got more rattle, especially on the E which seems much more 'together' in regular gauge. Whacking the weich E gives nothing but a loud rattle and I really had to control myself with it. I do find the regulars to be quite a bit darker but they still amplify well.
I am having some left hand pain mainly in my third finger which may be due to all the shedding I'm doing in TP so hopefully it will be OK.

At a fairly low string height, I'm able to get a gutlike click and pop against the fingerboard when soloing much like Eddie Gomez but without any of the nasal tone I was getting with spirocores. I like the short sustain. It all has the effect of allowing me to play faster because the notes have a strong and quick fundamental without many overtones. However, they do sustain and work great for ballads in a very organic way. At heart, I'm probably more of a gut string player so TEHO, TIFWIW and YMMV. This is on my bass, my hands, etc.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

For me both EPs have too many issues I don't like (stretch, separation of windings, very dark sound, sound problems with amplification).

I haven't had any of these issues with these strings, but they will darken up a bass' sound, so if you're looking for that change these will do it. I've been using them since they came on the market. Read the mega threads if you want more info.

 

[drurb]

another aspect to consider is how much you play...
I have EP's regular on my basses, and although many people complain about the tension if you play enough and get used to their tension you will love the amount of sound they put out.
IMO they sound fantastic for pizz and arco. I have been using these strings for Jazz and i manage to play a lot of gigs ampless, and on my b ass they also amplify very well if needed.
They sound very aggressive with arco and you can get a lot of sound without a lot of weight on the bow.
The softer gauge EP's have a great sound, maybe more similar to the Obigatos, a little darker... and although they sound great, they are very light. So when you really dig in they will choke, which is a total turn off.
I'd say if you have a light right hand go for the weichs, but if you dig in and you are looking for a more robust sound go for the regular gauge.

Wow! If anything demonstrates YMMV, this sure does. When I had the EP weichs on my bass, they never choked and I do not have a light right hand. Quite the contrary, I tend to play with an aggressive, percussive old-school style. I definitely dig in for a robust sound. The weichs took anything I could throw at them and they were thunderous. I chalk this up to different basses, setups, etc. The regulars were a bit outrageous on my bass.

Objectively, the weichs are not "light" at all if one considers diameter and tension.

As usual with strings, what one can take away from all of this is that you just gotta try them on your own bass.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

I tried a regular EP G together with Compas 180 and compared to them they are really dark sounding, but amplify well with this dark sound. But since there are almost no highs and very little middle frequencies I was not able to get an amplified sound where I can hear my intonation well, even if I push up mids and highs.
So they amplify well if the dark sound is always desired. That might be the "problem" for some players (like me).

The stretch is greater on the Weich than the regular and maybe only on the high strings.
But if the string stetches, the windings will separate a bit. If the windings move, a single spot of large separation may be the result and this can lead to a break of the outer winding or some inharmonicity of the string.
Maybe I have to stretch the string more than most of you to get the same pitch on a 109cm scale.

They are not bad, just not for me and have some issues. Less than Obligato (that I didn't like for other reasons), but some.

The 140H gets problems when played with hard pizz. Most of the energy goes into the attack then and the sustained sound will get only a little bit louder but not as much as expected.
The 140B could be overplayed a little bit if you give them a hard pizz because of their lower tension. But for my usual dynamics range they are just fine, just a little bit more quiet and also a bit dark but not as much as EPs. Nice for chamber music I would say.
The Compas 180 is nice for pizz and bowing, but every single bowing error could be heard clearly. Probably too Spirocory-bright for the EP-lovers.

So every string has it pros and cons. We have to select which ones are important to us and which are not.