Which Head for Two Ampeg SVT-210 AV Cabs?

[Andee]

Hi

I have two Ampeg SVT-210 AV Cabs and I am currently running them with the Micro SV Head. I am having problems with distortion "crack" sound as discussed here:

Problem with Ampeg Micro VR with 2 AV210 cabs | TalkBass.com

If I set the controls to a "moderate" setting I can get away using it, but I want to be able to use the range of sounds available without silly distortion issues limiting my choice!

I want to send the head away to the service centre to get it fixed but I can't afford to be without a head for rehearsals and gigs. I am considering getting the PF350 or PF500 head and then use the (repaired) Micro SV as a backup or for smaller gigs.

I have read lots of threads about the amps and it seems there were problems with the PF500. How are people getting on with the PF350 and PF500 and twoSVT-210 AV Cabs and have the earlier issues been resolved? Do you think the PF500 is worth the extra investment?

Thanks

 

[nutdog]

People that have had trouble will tell you they did and you will. People that haven't will tell you they haven't and you won't. But here you are. I liked this:

 

[Andee]

Thanks I can see what you are saying! I really like the Ampeg sound, even if it the solid state version It's annoying with problems, but I need to Motown/Northern Soul sound and I figure Ampeg is gonna give me that. I will try to listen to Aguilar and see how they sound though.

 

[nutdog]

I used a pf500, the aggie, a streamliner and walkabout at one time or another. IMHO, the cabs have their own sound they impart to any combination. There were subtle differences but mostly they sounded similar. I like those cabs. A pair with a 500 watt amp will rock a small/medium gig.

 

[KaseOfBass]

I also have a pair of the 210AV cabs. I've used a PF500 that I bought used here on TB, a TH500 and a V-4B reissue and all have sounded great through the 210AV cabs though I no longer have the TH500. I knew of the problems that had been experienced with the PF500, but wanted the power and additional features that the PF500 had over the PF350. That was in October 2013 and I haven't experienced any problems with the PF500 whatsoever. If you like the tone of the MicroVR amp, the PF350 will get you right back there (exact same EQ sections as I understand it) with a bit more power while the PF500 will give you a few more options in EQ (ultra high, ultra low, mid selector) and even more power. For me, the PF500 was the choice for the power and additional EQ options.

 

[JimmyM]

I had this problem for a little while but it went away in time as the speakers loosened up. But I used a PF350 in the meantime, and if you like the Micro VR but want to keep that same preamp, the PF350 is the way to go. I also use a PF800 and V4B with them, mostly the V4B.

 

[Andee]

Thanks for your comments guys. I really do like the sound of the Micro VR and I need a simple Old School Motown / Soul kind of tone. I am interested in what you are saying about the speakers "loosening up". To let them loosen up I presume you just let the rig "crack away" until it stops? How long did it take to clear? Also did the "fault" get passed to your PA via line out/DI or is it purely within the amp/cab arrangement?

 

[RoadRanger]

My Aguilar TH-350 is so much a better amp than the Micro-VR . I brought out the Micro-VR to a outdoor gig a couple weeks ago and it did the ugly distortion thing on my 4 ohm GK 212MBE . I ran it the next day with a single SVT210AV and no prob - sounded great. I'm convinced that those not seeing "the problem" just aren't cranking the amp into output overdrive. I'd probably sell it but can't in good conscience - and it does sound great into an 8 ohm cab .

Sure wish Ampeg would definitively fix this - shame on them ! If I had the schematic I'd tweak or just defeat the SOA circuitry which I suspect is the culprit. I've yet to read a report of Ampeg actually fixing the problem without basically neutering the amp's output overdrive .

 

[Bassfiction]

I also use my pf350 with my 210avs with no problems. The micro head is great for practice, just doesn't have enough balls to overcome the drums.. I've also run my svt -iii non pro through those cabs as well with great sound.

 

[Andee]

I used the Micro VR at a festival gig yesterday and it was getting lost when my drummer played his loudest sections. I am thinking the PF350 will be loud enough to cover most of the small/medium gigs I anticipate. Presumably as long as I can hear myself over the drums I have it covered? I am on a budget so seems to make sense to go for the PF350. I have heard nothing but favourable comments about that amp with two 210AVs.

 

[JimmyM]

Thanks for your comments guys. I really do like the sound of the Micro VR and I need a simple Old School Motown / Soul kind of tone. I am interested in what you are saying about the speakers "loosening up". To let them loosen up I presume you just let the rig "crack away" until it stops? How long did it take to clear? Also did the "fault" get passed to your PA via line out/DI or is it purely within the amp/cab arrangement?

Purely within the amp/cab arrangement. The way I understand it, it's an impedance reaction that results in the voice coil hitting the back plate. The way it worked for me was I used another amp for a few months with these cabs, then had a wild hair and decided to see if anything changed with the Micro VR. It did.

I used the Micro VR at a festival gig yesterday and it was getting lost when my drummer played his loudest sections. I am thinking the PF350 will be loud enough to cover most of the small/medium gigs I anticipate. Presumably as long as I can hear myself over the drums I have it covered? I am on a budget so seems to make sense to go for the PF350. I have heard nothing but favourable comments about that amp with two 210AVs.

Oofa! No, if these two cabs aren't loud enough for you with the Micro VR, they will not be loud enough for you with the PF350 either, since the volume gains when you double your wattage are pretty much barely noticeable. And if you use anything with higher wattage, you risk blowing up your cabs if they're not putting out enough for you. You will need to not only add more wattage but get heavier duty cabs as well. I love those little cabs, but they are medium duty at best. OTOH, y'all are way too loud and you need to turn down

 

[RoadRanger]

The way I understand it, it's an impedance reaction that results in the voice coil hitting the back plate.

Highly doubt that, the Micro-VR can't bottom out a single cab so the lesser power per cab when driving two shouldn't either. I've run mine pretty far into output overdrive on a single SVT210AV. As I said above I suspect the SOA protection is kicking in causing rude clipping...

 

[Bassfiction]

I'm running a tube pre before my amp and pedals, basically using it as a boost in gain. It works pretty well for getting loud. My current setup is presonus tube pre>pedalboard>pf350>410he & svt210av. It gets plenty loud over a heavy drummer.

 

[Andee]

Purely within the amp/cab arrangement. The way I understand it, it's an impedance reaction that results in the voice coil hitting the back plate. The way it worked for me was I used another amp for a few months with these cabs, then had a wild hair and decided to see if anything changed with the Micro VR. It did.


Oofa! No, if these two cabs aren't loud enough for you with the Micro VR, they will not be loud enough for you with the PF350 either, since the volume gains when you double your wattage are pretty much barely noticeable. And if you use anything with higher wattage, you risk blowing up your cabs if they're not putting out enough for you. You will need to not only add more wattage but get heavier duty cabs as well. I love those little cabs, but they are medium duty at best. OTOH, y'all are way too loud and you need to turn down

When I say it's not loud enough I am referring to the volume I can get before the "crack" distortion happens.
Gain = 1 o'clock
Bass =12 o'clock
Mid = 10 o'clock
Treble = full off
Volume 2 o'clock

If I increase either the Gain, Bass or Volume by one notch the amp "spits" when the limiter kicks in. I am using the Fender Modern Player Telecaster Bass with the pickup pole pieces adjusted away from the strings to give an balance across the strings (i.e. not stupidly high to give a rediculously hot output). The input gain only clips the level indicator when I set it to 3 0'clock, so with my setting of 1 o'clock I am way below). I have also heard it 'spit' or 'crack' with just one cabinet in use. Has anyone else had this issue?

 

[Bassfiction]

Mine has "spit" before with one cab. The sealed enclosure doesn't tickle my fancy as far as volume is concerned. Though, I prefer sealed cabs for punch and crisp notes.

 

[JimmyM]

Highly doubt that, the Micro-VR can't bottom out a single cab so the lesser power per cab when driving two shouldn't either. I've run mine pretty far into output overdrive on a single SVT210AV. As I said above I suspect the SOA protection is kicking in causing rude clipping...

Well what I said is what Bill Fitzmaurice said was happening, and since it went away on its own, I tend to believe him, as I've never seen a protection circuit trigger early then fix itself a few months later. I have, however, seen voice coil suspensions loosen up over time.

When I say it's not loud enough I am referring to the volume I can get before the "crack" distortion happens.
Gain = 1 o'clock
Bass =12 o'clock
Mid = 10 o'clock
Treble = full off
Volume 2 o'clock

If I increase either the Gain, Bass or Volume by one notch the amp "spits" when the limiter kicks in. I am using the Fender Modern Player Telecaster Bass with the pickup pole pieces adjusted away from the strings to give an balance across the strings (i.e. not stupidly high to give a rediculously hot output). The input gain only clips the level indicator when I set it to 3 0'clock, so with my setting of 1 o'clock I am way below). I have also heard it 'spit' or 'crack' with just one cabinet in use. Has anyone else had this issue?

This is very much a "borderline" setting where it could be you just tapping out the amp's clean power and trying to push it beyond. When it was happening to me, I could have the gain below noon not lighting the light at all and the master on about 10:00 and it would still do it. And it would only do it with the two cabs and never just one. Whether you've reached the limit is dependent on your bass' output, but I can easily see it happening at that setting. So it's my opinion that you're getting full capability from your head but trying to push it beyond it.

 

[morebass!]

One vote for the Walkabout. I bet the v4b sounds good too.

 

[iagtrplyr]

Interesting thread on a great rig. Couldn't we agree, as JimmyM just mentioned, the OP has hit the Micro VR's limits, and that if he wants more then he'll most likely be looking at both a head and cab update?

It seems as if my Micro amp/single 210 cab sounds best when running lower volume with lots of headroom, and I'm thinking that's what Ampeg may have been thinking when if was designed.

If it was me and I had the money, I'd go PF-800 and a 410 cab of choice, possibly the Portaflex.

 

[dmac1961]

I have a pair of these cabs that I use all the time, because I'm a sucker for that 810 vibe but I also appreciate ease of schlep. I have the PF-500, and it pairs great with these cabs for that classic tone. I've also ran various tube amps with them with great results, but lately I've been favoring a GB Shuttle 9.0 and a mild OD pedal. These cabs seem to excel when given a good amount of power and some grit. I'd consider a PF-800 if that's the sound you want. I'd also try some of the offerings from G-K and the like. That's the beauty of the 210AV, if the shop doesn't have one, it's easy to carry one of yours in to demo a head. Good luck.

 

[NKBassman]

I tried the Micro VR. Dug the tone, HATED the grossly oversized form factor.

Tried a GK MB800 next, but wasn't getting the drive character I liked, and it was WAY over-powered for my needs.

Flipped that recently for an Aguilar TH-500, and really digging that combo so far. Very versatile! I've done country thump all the way to metal grind with just the EQ and drive on the head.