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Which Neo Cabs Go Deep? Single Cab Options?

CoffeeLove

Supporting Member
Aug 4, 2013
1,507
1,712
California, Central Coast
Title says it all, any thoughts? And yes, talking reggae/dub deep at "medium" size venues. We usually have PA support outdoors (our system), but occasionally (at certain venues) there is no "sub" provided with the on-site PA. Liked my old Eden D410XLT, it came close by itself, but 100 pounds, yikes.

Is it true that most non-ported cabs lack the ability to go deep? Random question

Thanks
 
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Title says it all, any thoughts? And yes, talking reggae/dub deep at "medium" size venues. We usually have PA support outdoors (our system), but occasionally (at certain venues) there is no "sub" provided with the on-site PA.

Is it true that most non-ported cabs lack the ability to go deep? Random question

Thanks

Most bass guitar cabinets lack the ability to go deep - even ported, but sealing a cabinet does hinder the low frequency extension even more.

When you ask about cabinets, and which ones go deep, it has nothing to do with the magnet on the back of the speaker. The Physics of loudspeaker cabinets give you a 3 way tradeoff at low frequencies - extension, size, and efficiency - the smaller and more efficient you make a cabinet, the less low frequency extension you have. The tradeoff most companies make is they do small, they do loud, but they don't do deep, because the first two are seen as more important then the deep part.

As people started making neodymium cabinets, they were also making them smaller - if you want light, you gotta take away wood, because the magnet isn't all the weight. So yes, the Neo cabs of today have less "deep" ability than the ceramic mag cabinets of yesteryear, but it has NOTHING to do with the magnet material - the don't go as deep because they're smaller. In this case, size does matter (as well as efficiency). If you want to get REALLY picky about it, a neo driver technically helps you get a tiny bit more extension, because in any given size box, there is less magnet, so there can be more air (the box is bigger inside). Are you gonna hear that tiny difference? No, but if there is a edge to neo or ceramic magnets in terms of deep, the edge, however miniscule , goes to neo.

If you want to see the bass cabinets that go the deepest, look at Acme. What makes them go lower? They give up efficiency - it's the same tradeoff, but they have chosen low frequency extension over efficiency.

If you want deep and loud, you get a bunch of Acme 8 ohm cabinets (the 112 edge wound one, for example), and you array them. Individually, they are as efficient as one of the original drivers on an Ampeg 810 (which is to say, not very efficient at all), but if you array a bunch of them (what the Ampeg 810 does), you gain back efficiency due to the array gain.
 
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Most bass guitar cabinets lack the ability to go deep - even ported, but sealing a cabinet does hinder the low frequency extension even more.

When you ask about cabinets, and which ones go deep, it has nothing to do with the magnet on the back of the speaker. The Physics of loudspeaker cabinets give you a 3 way tradeoff at low frequencies - extension, size, and efficiency - the smaller and more efficient you make a cabinet, the less low frequency extension you have. The tradeoff most companies make is they do small, they do loud, but they don't do deep, because the first two are seen as more important then the deep part.

As people started making neodymium cabinets, they were also making them smaller - if you want light, you gotta take away wood, because the magnet isn't all the weight. So yes, the Neo cabs of today have less "deep" ability than the ceramic mag cabinets of yesteryear, but it has NOTHING to do with the magnet material - the don't go as deep because they're smaller. In this case, size does matter (as well as efficiency). If you want to get REALLY picky about it, a neo driver technically helps you get a tiny bit more extension, because in any given size box, there is less magnet, so there can be more air (the box is bigger inside). Are you gonna hear that tiny difference? No, but if there is a edge to neo or ceramic magnets in terms of deep, the edge, however miniscule , goes to neo.

If you want to see the bass cabinets that go the deepest, look at Acme. What makes them go lower? They give up efficiency - it's the same tradeoff, but they have chosen low frequency extension over efficiency.

If you want deep and loud, you get a bunch of Acme 8 ohm cabinets (the 112 edge wound one, for example), and you array them. Individually, they are as efficient as one of the original drivers on an Ampeg 810 (which is to say, not very efficient at all), but if you array a bunch of them (what the Ampeg 810 does), you gain back efficiency due to the array gain.
Great info. I have looked into Acme a little, and was sort of turned off by the power requirements to get the cabs to moderate levels. I do understand the concept of losing efficiency to gain a really big bottom. Just wondering if there is something out there that starts to "approach" the Acme low end, without quite the same power requirements, a so called happy medium one cab solution. I have heard the fearful or Greenboy 15 cabs get a little closer, but not sure if that is actually true. And it does not need to be a single driver, could be a 410, 212, 215, etc...) Thanks
 
While the Subway 115 is really impressive, it would take the 215 to fill most rooms with deep bass. But it's the best single cab solution I can think of. I have two of the 115 cabs for a modular rig. They are simply amazing.
Good info. I had a single Subway 115, and as you stated, it did not cut it for low end extension in a moderate size room without PA support. Never tried it with a second one, that could be impressive. I had an Eden D410XLT that did it for me, or at least close, but 100 pounds, yikes:D
 
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Great info. I have looked into Acme a little, and was sort of turned off by the power requirements to get the cabs to moderate levels. I do understand the concept of losing efficiency to gain a really big bottom. Just wondering if there is something out there that starts to "approach" the Acme low end, without quite the same power requirements, a so called happy medium one cab solution. I have heard the fearful or Greenboy 15 cabs get a little closer, but not sure if that is actually true. And it does not need to be a single driver, could be a 410, 212, 215, etc...) Thanks

What you want can be made (I built mine), but as far as I know, they’re not commercially available.
 
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Good info. I had a single Subway 115, and as you stated, it did not cut it for low end extension in a moderate size room without PA support. Never tried it with a second one, that could be impressive. I had an Eden D410XLT that did it for me, or at least close, but 100 pounds, yikes:D

Yeah two is a different thing altogether.
 
The discontinued Barefaced Dubster and Dubster 2 (with their cringeworthy marketing lines I'm not gonna quote) might have done the trick.

You could also get a Greenboy fEARful 1515/66
(here's a used one - no affiliation:
Fearful 1515/66-Green Matamp Tolex | Reverb )
and read up on how to tune it down (what Electro-Voice called the "step-down mode") for low F#.
 
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You’ll be hard pressed to find a suitable one cab due to the size of the venue you’re trying to fill. IME the best options are going to Markbass and Mesa.

I currently play FT in a Jamaican reggae group and have been using the Mesa 215 for about 2 years now. I’ve never thought about using anything else. It works great for small/medium venues without PA support.

Keep in mind for those DUB lows you need a LOT of headroom so a single cab very likely won’t cut it. Having a sub is ALWAYS going to make a noticeable difference as well it’s very rare that we don’t bring one.
 
Title says it all, any thoughts? And yes, talking reggae/dub deep at "medium" size venues. We usually have PA support outdoors (our system), but occasionally (at certain venues) there is no "sub" provided with the on-site PA. Liked my old Eden D410XLT, it came close by itself, but 100 pounds, yikes.

Is it true that most non-ported cabs lack the ability to go deep? Random question

Thanks
Sealed cabs go deeper actually. It's far more efficient. The roll off is less at all frequencies. A port only makes the frequency it's tuned to louder.

But, we're not talking about speakers, or an instrument, that is only used for the bottom end. We're talking about bass guitar.

I play reggea. I have a 610hlf, and a couple svt 112av cabs. They both do it just fine without a PA.
 
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Reactions: CoffeeLove
The discontinued Barefaced Dubster and Dubster 2 (with their cringeworthy marketing lines I'm not gonna quote) might have done the trick.

You could also get a Greenboy fEARful 1515/66
(here's a used one - no affiliation:
Fearful 1515/66-Green Matamp Tolex | Reverb )
and read up on how to tune it down (what Electro-Voice called the "step-down mode") for low F#.
Step-down mode requires eq plus the power handling falls quite a bit. It’s a trade off between extension and power handling (versus SPL)

Sealed cabs go deeper actually. It's far more efficient. The roll off is less at all frequencies. A port only makes the frequency it's tuned to louder.
Sealed cabinets are less efficient at low frequencies. The F3 extension is greater with a ported cabinet of similar size.