I'm planning on running an ampeg 8x10 a svt3pro or a ampeg b4r with a fender rt-1000 some sort of wireless and a Sonic maximizer I've been looking at buying a power conditioner but am not really sure which to purchase. I have been looking at the furmans though. Please help me with this I just want to make sure I dont buy a junk one or one that can't handle all the power its going to be getting.
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Which Power conditioner should I buy?
- Thread starter abcdefranklin
- Start date
they really are not much more than a rack mount power strip,and the grid is where the action is power wise ...... i have a few and the pull out lights and a front mounted ac outlet are nice to have,and they help keep the rack neat.....
All the top amp manufactures I know of on this forum do not recommend the use of power conditioners for amps. They are fine for rack effects and such for the convenience and steady power and gizmo's that they offer but can actually starve an amp when more current is required when an amp is pushed.
Even Furman, who is well regarded as making fine power conditioners, acknowledges this and came out with a product to compensate. Here is a copy paste from their website:
Power Factor Technology
Your amp needs a lot of power to sound its best. If you’re plugging into the wall, there’s a good chance your amp is not going to get the current it needs when pushed. Furman’s exclusive Power Factor Technology provides a 45A peak current reservoir to give your amp the headroom it needs to operate at maximum efficiency. No matter what venue or club, or how close or far away from the power panel, Furman’s Power Factor Technology keeps your instrument amplifier’s tone consistent and sounding it’s best
Notice how Furman only says plugging into the wall is bad,( not true at all) but if you used their other power conditioners, those are plugged into the wall as well. Kind of a clever way of not admitting the usage of their other non- "power factor power" conditioners for amps except this one, yet they stood behind them before this product came out.
Even with this technology in their power conditioners, the power reserve is only temporary and limited plus these units are expensive, So again these are not recommended either.
It is by far cheaper and better to plug your amp into the wall. If you are to run a rack for effects , preamps, etc.then I personally would recommend one!
Even Furman, who is well regarded as making fine power conditioners, acknowledges this and came out with a product to compensate. Here is a copy paste from their website:
Power Factor Technology
Your amp needs a lot of power to sound its best. If you’re plugging into the wall, there’s a good chance your amp is not going to get the current it needs when pushed. Furman’s exclusive Power Factor Technology provides a 45A peak current reservoir to give your amp the headroom it needs to operate at maximum efficiency. No matter what venue or club, or how close or far away from the power panel, Furman’s Power Factor Technology keeps your instrument amplifier’s tone consistent and sounding it’s best
Notice how Furman only says plugging into the wall is bad,( not true at all) but if you used their other power conditioners, those are plugged into the wall as well. Kind of a clever way of not admitting the usage of their other non- "power factor power" conditioners for amps except this one, yet they stood behind them before this product came out.
Even with this technology in their power conditioners, the power reserve is only temporary and limited plus these units are expensive, So again these are not recommended either.
It is by far cheaper and better to plug your amp into the wall. If you are to run a rack for effects , preamps, etc.then I personally would recommend one!
In my experience all that's just marketing and you won't notice any difference beyond a placebo effect. Save your money and either plug into the wall or get a cheap rackmount power strip if you need to power a bunch of effects.
Obviously , you are confused
You are confusing "power conditioner" and "voltage regulator"
A Voltage regulator ( as the name imply ) regulates voltage , and is a good thing to have. But they are Fr****in expensive.
What most people have in their racks are "power conditioners" wich are power strips , rack mountable ,sold at a high price for absolutly nothing.
The OP talks about power conditioner.
EDIT;
A power conditioner ;http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=01&id=M-8Lx
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/M8Lx/
A voltage regulator ; http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=01&id=P-1800AR
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/P1800AR/
Please note the difference in price in those two very different devices.
+1
I have a furman ar-15 in my studio because of unsteady voltage (in the summer it drops so low I have to shut down) and it kicks. I actually have a cheap and somewhat portable one from APC I use on my comps. I think it was around $50-ish . . . works good too
Not true. I use them in my Bass rack and have several for my home studio rack,( Furman PL Plus series 2) but like I said earlier, only for the preamp and effects. I run a 3000 watt power amp but that is plugged direct to the power source and when necessary, I use a 21 ft. 12 gauge extension cord.
This topic has come up several times and you will probably have the amp manufactures on this forum chime in and give their professional and experienced reasons why not to use power conditioners for amplifiers.
So the choice is yours, believe the marketing hype that so many people swear by, or listen to the educated( hopefully!) techs such as Bob Lee( QSC audio) Genz- Benz and others who design and service amplifiers.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,952
- 5
- 220,599
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
The products you mention are not voltage regulators, and will not correct for sagging or overvoltage conditions. In fact, there's no engineering data I have found on what these devices do, how they do it, the amount of energy stored, or how long the peak current can be maintained. This data would allow the engineers who participate on this forum a way to evaluate how effective any product is likely to be to correct a specific condition.
Amplifiers are designed to handle the power that's available in the real world. Those that are properly designed, manufactured and certified to meet the IEC or EN standards, contain all the protection your amp needs under normal operating conditions.
If you have a specific problem that needs to be corrected, once the cause is identified, the APPROPRIATE correction can be applied, be that a voltage regulator, an RF filter, a spike clamp, or maybe better, the cause of the fault corrected in the supply wiring and installation.
I've yet to see a problem that could be attributed to wonky power, so I would not bother. But if you must get something, get a SurgeX.
I used to use a Belkins SurgeMaster GOLD Series power strip/surge protector; until it got fried from being connected to a faulty wall socket. Will prolly just replace with a Monster-Power MPAV800. That's about as much protection as I feel is useful for me.
Never saw a need for a power conditioner or voltage regulator; but then again, I won't play anywhere that those would be required, and aren't already in place.
Never saw a need for a power conditioner or voltage regulator; but then again, I won't play anywhere that those would be required, and aren't already in place.
People who read specifications numbers notice that the expensive power conditioner is nothing more than a power strip protector with an even higher price.
One who learns how electricity works knows the amp's power supply "ensures that your equipment gets continuous steady power." Anything that power conditioner might do must already be inside the amp doing it better.
Power conditioners are wasted money. What is accomplished for less than $10 in an amps supply will somehow be done for $100+ by a power conditioner? Nonsense.
Any market that Monster Cable participates in, historically, is a scam. Monster has a long history of identifying those markets. Then selling same products for even higher prices. Did you know speaker wire has polarity? Monster sells speaker wire with one end marked for the amp; other end marked for speakers. Why? Monster says if you reverse that wire, then the sound will be harmed. And sell those marked speaker cables for ten times more money. Amazing how many people swallowed that lie hook, line, and sinker. Monster Cable has a long history of obscene profits by selling myths. Monster is therefore selling power conditioners. Lying is quite profitable when others only believe what they are told - never bother to read the technical specification numbers. It is only a power strip protector with a higher price for an expensive box.
Clarification: I have the Monster Pro-2500 and the Furman PF-Pro R. Read below:
The Furman PF-Pro R:
The Power Factor Pros Clear Tone Technology actually lowers the AC line impedance supplied by your wall outlet, while storing energy for peak current demands. In fact, there are over 45 amps of instantaneous current reserve in the Power Factor Pro. Additionally, Linear Filtering Technology dramatically lowers AC line noise to unprecedented levels in the critical audio frequency band.
What does this mean? Just plug in your current starved amplifier, crank up the volume, and listen to the dynamics, harmonics, and clarity youve been missing!
Further, the Power Factor Pro is the most comprehensive power conditioner ever created for the serious musician. Furmans exclusive Series Multi-Stage Protection Plus (SMP+) guards your equipment from voltage spikes that can damage your amplifier or other connected equipment. It also incorporates automatic Extreme Voltage Shutdown (EVS) to ensure that you will never see your prized amplifier or other equipment go up in flames due to a sustained voltage overload. If the voltage goes over a certain level, the Power Factor unit will simply shut down your connected equipment, protecting them and itself.
Power Factor Pro technology is available in two models. The PF-Pro is a small convenient floor-standing model complete with 4 outlets and a detachable, locking AC cord. The PF-Pro R is rack-mounted with 8 rear outlets and one easy-to-reach outlet in front. Both units have a generous 12 amp R.M.S. capacity, and a convenient 20 segment AC voltmeter to monitor the incoming line voltage.
The Monster Pro-2500
While the PowerCenter also does an excellent job of protecting your equipment from harmful power surges, its main performance benefit is much more than just surge protection. Our patented Clean Power filter circuitry (U.S. Pat. No. 6,473,510 B1) virtually stops noise that goes right through ordinary surge protectors. Clean Power Stage 2 does more than just filter out electromagnetic (EMI) and radio frequency (RF) interference. It also isolates different types of audio equipment from each other.
The PowerCenter goes beyond typical filtration of RF/EM interference on the AC power line. The PowerCenter features isolated Clean Power digital and analog audio filters for ever more effective reduction of "dirty power" between connected components. If any noise from components sharing the power line gets through one Clean Power filter, it will have to go through another filter to get to an adjacent set of outlets. The result is an extremely low noise floor without hum or buzz that allows all of the rich harmonics and tone to come through your performance.
Additional filters for high current audio outlets, specially designed for power amplifiers, will deliver the instantaneous peak currents needed to avoid distortion and keep drums and other quick-attack percussion instruments sounding crisp, even at loud listening levels. The degree of isolation and filtering is reflected in the Monster Power Stage number, with higher numbers indicating the most advanced filtering circuitry--but even at the more basic levels, the improvement in sound can be striking.
The PRO 2500 features two-stage turn-on sequencing to protect your components from damage that may occur if they're all powered on at the same moment. The unit also provides excellent surge/spike protection for your components with Monster exclusive Dual Mode Plus circuitry and a surge/spike absorption capacity of 2775 Joules. There are 8 surge-protected rear panel AC outlets and 2 front panel convenience outlets. A digital microprocessor-driven voltmeter provides instantaneous monitoring of power conditions and fluctuations. An audible alarm alerts you when a surge has occurred. Get PRO 2500 to protect your valuable sound equipment and enable all your AC-powered audio components to work at optimal performance levels, for the best possible sound your system can deliver.
I noticed an immediate difference when I began using these two products (I have 2 different stage setups).
Agedhorse already commented on your products. You drank the marketing kool-aid. I would not argue with Andy because you will be bringing a knife to a gunfight.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,952
- 5
- 220,599
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Tumeni Notes - there is absolutely no engineering data in what you posted that would allow somebody who actually understood what these words mean evaluate the product to determine what it actually does and if it's likely to help OR EVEN HARM the equipment you are using.
There's a whole lot of additional information required about what equipment you are using, what the venue wiring is like, if there's a low inductance ground present, if there's likely to be any under or over-voltage events encountered, the amount of RF energy present, the magnitude and frequency of voltage spikes present (this is especially important for transient absorbing products), etc. Do you even have a problem?
Otherwise, whatever "protection product" you choose is just a wild ass guess that may or may not help. Some products, combined with some amps can cause massive failures as well, specifically tap changing (auto-commutating) voltage regulators and large power amps coupled with high source impedance supply lines (like a long extension cord) hunting and oscillating with wild swings in the supply voltage due to the corrective action of the tap-switching.
There's a whole lot of additional information required about what equipment you are using, what the venue wiring is like, if there's a low inductance ground present, if there's likely to be any under or over-voltage events encountered, the amount of RF energy present, the magnitude and frequency of voltage spikes present (this is especially important for transient absorbing products), etc. Do you even have a problem?
Otherwise, whatever "protection product" you choose is just a wild ass guess that may or may not help. Some products, combined with some amps can cause massive failures as well, specifically tap changing (auto-commutating) voltage regulators and large power amps coupled with high source impedance supply lines (like a long extension cord) hunting and oscillating with wild swings in the supply voltage due to the corrective action of the tap-switching.
Um, those "no-it all"
gurus make their living designing and building the amps that you're plugging into the power conditioners you're raving about. Hey, buy what you want. It's your money.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,952
- 5
- 220,599
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Some of us "Gurus" have also designed a few power conditioners in our day too, all different kinds with features and components designed to solve specific and known problems.
Did you think, perhaps, that we also designed the conditioning and protection networks inside the amps that we design and that you play? There are more than a few of us here on this forum that do this for a living.
Did you think, perhaps, that we also designed the conditioning and protection networks inside the amps that we design and that you play? There are more than a few of us here on this forum that do this for a living.
seems like a lot of guys have complained of low voltages from outlets at venues...... especially the svt guys with the circuit that wont come out of stand by below a certain voltage
is it just improperly wired venues or is the grid the usual culprit......
i know those cheapo extension cords are a problem....and power conditioners can do nothing for low voltage at the outlet.....i guess a clamp meter is required for the gig bag these days
