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Which Power conditioner should I buy?

#22
Jim Campbell said:
i guess a clamp meter is required for the gig bag these days
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No need to spend even that much. If an incandescent bulb remains about 50% intensity, then power is ideal for electronics.

If voltage is changing excessively, the light bulb intensity will change quick noticeably and obviously.

IOW discover unstable voltages (that do not bother electronics) to find defective wiring long before it causes failures (becomes wose) much later.
 
#23
Jim Campbell said:
seems like a lot of guys have complained of low voltages from outlets at venues...... especially the svt guys with the circuit that wont come out of stand by below a certain voltage

is it just improperly wired venues or is the grid the usual culprit......
i know those cheapo extension cords are a problem....and power conditioners can do nothing for low voltage at the outlet.....i guess a clamp meter is required for the gig bag these days
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This indeed can be a problem with some venues. It's rarely (like probably <1%) a problem with the utility grid and usually ends up being a combination of inadequate venue wiring size for the current being drawn and the length of the circuit (including extension cords).

The National Electrical Code requires that designers maintain a <5% total voltage drop on any branch circuit at design loads. That would be a 6 volt drop from 120 volts or 114 volts. Even with a 115 volt utility distribution secondary (pretty rare now), that would still be 109 volts. We design all of our amps to operate at voltages down to under 104 volts and in most cases even lower than this. When problems do occur with amps going into protection, and on sites where I have been able to verify this, a logging meter reading shows that the voltage sometimes dips way below 100 volts. Additionally, when I place a standard load of 2000 watts (we do not use 2400 watts due to the continuous derating factor that the NEC allows or requires on some circuits as well as the fact that a couple of 1k pars are easily available anywhere) it's not uncommon to see voltages drop below 90 volts.

(well designed) Amplifiers are designed to do the best they can to protect themselves from undervoltage conditions and that's why they shut down. This is part of what allows us as manufacturers to offer warranties substantially better than many years ago when protection schemes were not as good. Of course when the voltage returns to normal they will function as intended.

So, this scenario is clearly a power source problem and not an amplifier problem.

(note that the voltages I gave were for domestic USA, and that our friends in other locations may use different voltages but the concept remains valid.)
 
#24
certainly I'm not a EE so I'm gonna dumb this thread down real quick here. :p

Inevitably, most all my club/lounge gig venues do not offer a wall outlet that either my Neopak/F1/B1500 amps' power cord will even reach. So I'm forced to use a powerstrip. I did buy a Furman power cond awhile back when I used a 6 space rack system, amp/effects/tuner and my trusty little personal fan that I never leave home without. Worked great for that, I never really considered the technical side of it, except the pull out lites were helpful on dark stages. It was convenient for my needs.

Well I've since broken down my rack and now use at most a 2 space rack, amp/rack tuner but mostly just amp head on top of cab. I have a few PC type surge protector/power strips that I now use to reach the nearest power outlet.

I guess my concern is, I hardly ever can plug my amps directly into a wall outlet. Is not doing this compromizing any of my amps? Thanks, ernie. (Oh, today is my birthday :hyper: ) So reply nicely, LOL :p
 
#25
ErnieD said:
I guess my concern is, I hardly ever can plug my amps directly into a wall outlet. Is not doing this compromizing any of my amps? Thanks, ernie. (Oh, today is my birthday :hyper: ) So reply nicely, LOL :p
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For a smaller load, it's (probably) not going to be a big problem, you are using these as glorified power strips ratherthan having the expectation of being a cure-all magic box. Avoid the plastic ones with the flimsy receptacles though.

Your NeoPak has all the power supply protection needed already built in, so you don't need anything extra.
 
#26
ErnieD said:
Inevitably, most all my club/lounge gig venues do not offer a wall outlet that either my Neopak/F1/B1500 amps' power cord will even reach. So I'm forced to use a powerstrip.
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Spend $3 for a power strip that does what you need (all power strips are only 15amps – even the $3 one). Or spend $100 plus for the Furman et al to have the same power strip with an obscene profit margin.

Is that power cord 16 or 18 AWG? Or is it heavier gauge so as to not diminish voltage? More important is putting money where it matters such as in 12 or even 10 AWG extension cords. Better power can be obtained directly from receptacles adjacent to the breaker box.

Connect a light bulb. When amps are powered on, does light bulb dim? If yes, then get out the meter. You may have a power problem. If not, leave the bulb connected. At any time, if someone notices the bulb changing intensity, then locate and correct that defect - even when amps work 100% normally. That simple.
 
#27
highend guitar amps are usually usually tube amps, tube sound is dull in the highs and some high mids.. noting they hide a lot of noise.. cheap solidstate amps to me do the same.. Hi-Fi amps like the thunder funk show everything.. that's why I would use a UPS battery backup and power conditioner(one that don't limit power like cheaper ones) for the extra outlets..
 
#29
great topic here. Was just having to rebuild our rack after a guy left. He's taking the Furman conditioner. I was looking at these and there was debate in our band whether they are necc.
We all decided it was a black hole. My point to the gyus was, the manual for that amplifier does not recommend or call for the use of one of a conditioner.
Thanks for all the info.
 
#30
abcdefranklin said:
I'm planning on running an ampeg 8x10 a svt3pro or a ampeg b4r with a fender rt-1000 some sort of wireless and a Sonic maximizer I've been looking at buying a power conditioner but am not really sure which to purchase. I have been looking at the furmans though. Please help me with this I just want to make sure I dont buy a junk one or one that can't handle all the power its going to be getting.
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Get the one that has the best lights. They're the best part of a power conditioner.
 
#32
Adienn7 said:
highend guitar amps are usually usually tube amps, tube sound is dull in the highs and some high mids.. noting they hide a lot of noise.. cheap solidstate amps to me do the same.. Hi-Fi amps like the thunder funk show everything.. that's why I would use a UPS battery backup and power conditioner(one that don't limit power like cheaper ones) for the extra outlets..
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You've got to be kidding.
 
#33
I used a furman pl8 for like 15 years. Recently i downsized my rack and an now using a monster power strip i bought on sale at target for $15, attached with Velcro inside the back of my rack no issues so far. I really wouldn't worry about it much. The main thing you want is some protection. A lot of the high dollar power conditioners are made to use in different countries with different currents. If you aren't traveling outside the country or running a rediculously massive rig there's no reason to spend a ton of money on a power conditioner.
 
#35
The reason some amplifiers say they don't need a conditioner, mainly high-end stereo or PA amps, is that they can often draw more current than a conditioner is designed to deal with. A guitar amp might draw 5A but a big Class AB power amp may draw more than 20A on heavy peaks. Processors, OTOH, need clean power.
 
#38
1958Bassman said:
The reason some amplifiers say they don't need a conditioner, mainly high-end stereo or PA amps, is that they can often draw more current than a conditioner is designed to deal with. A guitar amp might draw 5A but a big Class AB power amp may draw more than 20A on heavy peaks. Processors, OTOH, need clean power.
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According to the experts, the actual reason is that they simply aren't needed.
 
#39
dmusic148 said:
According to the experts, the actual reason is that they simply aren't needed.
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And these experts are whom, exactly? Ever talk with an electrical engineer who works with microprocessors? Power supplies are often an "off the shelf" item and because their being chosen is based on cost vs performance, they estimate that the warranty will run out before a component failure. I work with Audio/Video equipment and if you want me to believe that many of the HDMI car problems are caused by something other than power surges, I'll need proof, not a vague reference to "experts".
 

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