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Which rig to bring? (revenge)
- Thread starter PatentNonsense
- Start date
There is nothing Christian about letting yourself be used as a doormat. Just go to whoever is in charge, tell them you've tried to work this out with the soundman to no avail and if they can't, or won't intervene, you'll be leaving. No need for dramatics, passive aggressive nonsense, or games; just a discussion between two adults.
Listen guy, you're on the worship team... Your musicianship is part of the ministry, part of the message, part of the service, and the medium that God has deemed fit to utilize in order to open people's hearts/souls to receive the word. It appears that the sound man has chosen to stand in the way of this facet of the ministry. I would address this issue with the Worship Leader, as well as the Pastor and be sure to cite the relevance of your position in light of musics overall impact/use to the church.
i completely agree with you, but the OP is in a difficult situation as it appears the sound man doesn't want to help or discuss. also i was thinking that perhaps he could set up his own monitor if the audience / worshipers can hear him.
wow, great post and good suggestion.
Even if the bass is audible to the audience/worshippers, how is it in the interest of anyone not to have a level on stage that allows the musicians to perform their best? Just asking, not trying to argue.
The sound the musicians hear is more important than what the house gets, IMHO. Without that, how can they do their best—which is what they are expected to do, is it not?
Ok, so now I am arguing a little...
wow, great post and good suggestion.
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Get a small monitor that fits on a mic stand and set it up right next to you facing the other musicians. When the sound man notices and questions you on it, at least you have his attention. Not as much as an eyesore as a twin stack, but useful. Which brings us to the next question, how does the "revenge" part of this dilemma fit into a church? Church gigs are the only exception to the rules governing conduct. No swearing, no farting, no dirty jokes, etc. You're in the house of God, show some respect. Maybe this is a test of your character the rewards of which will be reaped in the eternal kingdom. Forgive the sound man for his actions, go ask if you can have a fresh start and explain it to him again. Bring a couple of the other musicians to back your position up (whenever two or three are gathered...).
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What about if the leader is the music "tyrant "....are we going to tell God to turn down His thunder...and also i have seen so many mixing boards in the corners of rooms......the prob could be incompetant sound management...
OP: The way you stated your question suggests that you only have DI and no backline - is this right? I would take the 4x10 + B2000. Just use it at stage monitor volume sufficient to hear yourself and kindly offer the desk a post-EQ DI feed from your head. The rig will look reasonably small but you will know what is it capable of if push comes to shove, which hopefully it won't. Even if the desk turns you off there should be enough to bleed from the stage to ensure you do not go totally unheard out front. If you have a long lead/wireless you could always take a walk in sound-check just to get a sense of your 'monitoring' levels out front and adjust accordingly. On a personal note I would not play anywhere without backline.
Talk to the grumpy old soundman. Maybe there is something about your sound he doesn't like. Is it muddy and he is turning you down to make the band sound better?
Most problems are resolved through discussion and compromise. Revenge only makes it worse.
Tell him you can't hear yourself and that you know audience members aren't hearing you and ask what you can do to improve the mix. Tell him what you want to sound like and see if the two of you can work it out.
If that fails, put a spell on him that will turn him into an accordian player.
Most problems are resolved through discussion and compromise. Revenge only makes it worse.
Tell him you can't hear yourself and that you know audience members aren't hearing you and ask what you can do to improve the mix. Tell him what you want to sound like and see if the two of you can work it out.
If that fails, put a spell on him that will turn him into an accordian player.
Talk the music leader. Describe the whole situation to him or her and give your opinion. Then, whatever the music leader says goes. Period. He's in that position of leadership whether you agree with him/her or not.
What's the point in bringing in your whole rig when the PA can do just the same?
I played guitar and drums in a church music group years ago where the music was modern but somewhat conservative. So the sound guy and music leader liked it that way. The pastor brought in an outside music leader and he "taught" them on how to get a good sound. Our pastor had visited this other church and was impressed by their sound. He talked to their music leader, invited him to our church and tweeked the sound board settings. Drums and electric guitar volume up, but not overpowering. It sounded great. Well, that one week of special training was "nice". Slowly, the sound guys reverted back to their previous settings and within three months, it was the same as it was before.
You are fighting a brick wall of sorts. It's not your battle. Every church is different when it comes to music and it's not really up to a musician to come in and change things around. A music leader has to do that. The reverend has to do that. You can walk into 10 different churches of different denominations and the music worship part of the service isn't going to sound the same. The ones that sound as good as the recording of the song are the ones you aren't in an uphill battle. They want the bass and drums to drive the bottom end. Then, there are others where the bass and drums sound lean in the mix down, and they want it that way. Why? We're all worshiping God? That is neither here nor there.
You want to be a part of a church band that not only wants a good bass sound, but that actually will ask a bass guitarist to step down if he isn't bringing the bacon, right? There are churches out there that are all about that. Are you going to agree with that church's rules and beliefs? Maybe, maybe not. You going to switch churches just for that? Maybe. It's not wrong. Is that okay with you and God?
the more i think about this, its still a presentation of music, the sound man's job is to balance that sound as best as possible..from all areas of the room. Why do we take so much time before our big shows to set up..so its on. A praise band that performs in the same building..same PA..should pretty much have it spot on with some minor tweaking...try going from a 250 people room on fri nite, an outdoor fesival on sat ..theres when you run into more work....but i still think its a control freak issue..and i hate to say this. God gave us the talent in the first place..everybody is equal.....let the music live...let it move people.....somewhere, somehow praise band stuff has become very confusing to me...
A sound man that doesn't want every instrument heard in a good mix isn't a sound man. He's just a moron with a mixing board. Good luck dealing with this idiot whatever you decide to do.
Is this sound man trained? You said he is a volunteer. Is he just some rando guy from the congregation? Maybe he doesn't really know what he is doing and has some old fogey music taste that formed before electric instruments existed. If that is the case he would be naturally inclined to pretty much have no real low end in his ideal mix of a band.
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This simply sounds like a case of a non-profit that's comfortable using a soundman who is either untrained or incompetent and nothing that you've posted, OP, suggests that he's going to change anytime soon. I'm all for taking matters into your own hands with an SVT and Fridge but have to agree with others that such an approach will likely just make things worse. I've played in churches with similar problems and I found that if talking with those in charge of the church/organization doesn't help then your only options are to live with it or quit.
Without going to far into prohibited topics on this board (we've already gotten a bit too close to that line a couple of times) this is unfortunately part of the nature of playing for non-profit organizations, religious or not. The ones that rely on volunteers to function almost universally have severe issues with conflicts like what you're describing and it's really up to you how much you want to bang your head against this wall looking for a door until you give up and go find another wall. Good luck.
Without going to far into prohibited topics on this board (we've already gotten a bit too close to that line a couple of times) this is unfortunately part of the nature of playing for non-profit organizations, religious or not. The ones that rely on volunteers to function almost universally have severe issues with conflicts like what you're describing and it's really up to you how much you want to bang your head against this wall looking for a door until you give up and go find another wall. Good luck.
I think you nailed it for me..the dif between PRO and this type of praise set up. Being self supportive band..our sound being.."on" is all we have to go by and the guy we have on the board is literally another band member...he can make or break us...boosting leads at appropriate times...mixing in from e to drop d or c tuning...making sure the backdrop matches the music... i would say he is as vital to us sounding good as we are...we spend a decent time on set ups as we go from venue to venue !!! i would love to have a permanent set up like my home recording studio-jam space..its set and not much tweaking has to go ...dedicated board marking that once dialed in...dont have a lot of adjustment after that.....so we set our practice level so our levels are set..then go into PA to push out..the result a very consistent sound from venue to venue...seems to me being in the same building every week that it should be easy to stay dialed in..no matter who plays what
I always played through my Shuttle 9 and Thunderchild 4 Ohm 12" and I could always hear myself at church. Recently I sat out the last song and I noticed that my wife's microphone was turned down or shut off and all that was in the mains was the WL's guitar and vocals and the KB's heavy left hand and vocals. We gracefully stepped down as there is no point to carry on as the sound people- one of whom is the WL's wife - only do as they are told by the WL. Truly a no-win situation.
I play in churches also, so I am familiar with these kinds of situations. You absolutely need a way to hear yourself with some degree of clarity whether via a backline, monitors, or IEMs. If you have to, bring enough gear to insure that. And based on my experience it will save you a lot of angst and allow you to concentrate on your own worship during the service if, as far as FOH that you let the sound guy and the worship leader deal with it, it is their job to present the worship music as a whole.
And if you are still unsatisfied with FOH mix, if the worship leader and sound guy won't budge, only you can determine if you want to stay in that situation or find another one, churches are always looking for musicians.
Rich
And if you are still unsatisfied with FOH mix, if the worship leader and sound guy won't budge, only you can determine if you want to stay in that situation or find another one, churches are always looking for musicians.
Rich
