Really? Where are you located and what types of music are prominent? I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm curious to what n' where since most prominent genres seem to want a vintage vibe, with the exception of aggressive rock and metal.
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Who agrees?
- Thread starter Ryan Mohr
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Really? Where are you located and what types of music are prominent? I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm curious to what n' where since most prominent genres seem to want a vintage vibe, with the exception of aggressive rock and metal.
I pretty much agree with that quote, as I have played Fender Jazz basses for 40 years. However, I would not agree that it has to be a Fender to sound THAT way. I have also played a few Jazz bass copies that sounded pretty close to Leo's Jazz.
What I would say is that, nothing quite FEELS like a Fender Jazz once you strap one on. It might just be the way my body is shaped, but Fender Jazz MIA's just hang perfectly on my shoulder and never move. Couple that with the way they sound and you've got pure bass heaven, imho.
What I would say is that, nothing quite FEELS like a Fender Jazz once you strap one on. It might just be the way my body is shaped, but Fender Jazz MIA's just hang perfectly on my shoulder and never move. Couple that with the way they sound and you've got pure bass heaven, imho.
Maybe something was lost in the wording. I live just outside of chicago (minutes away); and most of the bands I have worked with like when I show up with something different then a fender. I am a master at none but do well at most; hardly a pro. I do mingle with lot's of musicians and in the bass world they feel fender is old hat. I am not talking about going to the studio I am talking about what bands seem to want from me. Most of the bass players I meet talk of saving for that "ken smith bass". I was referring to what I read here on talkbass as well. Just look at all the post's about obtaining a so called "custom bass". I am not talking down to anyone who want's a 10,000 bass I am just glad I dont feel the pressure to own one anymore. Funny I never meet a guitarist with a 10,000 dollar guitar; or one who's saving for one for that matter. Why do we all feel we need that gucci azz bass to find our sound. As for the industry; that's why I do all my recording at home on the mac now. Remember I am just talking about my experience; I respect others and there's.
Interesting experiences. BTW, didn't you know that guitarists know all and are the authority on bass?
90%+ of the bands I've worked with have preferred the sound of a Fender-style bass to all others, and its not the headstock (some of them have been called Lakland, Sadowsky, Yamaha, etc). The Stingray and the Jazz Clones are the only active basses that get the same kind of smiles, but in many cases the passive basses do even better.
Its not just our ears and our music that are used to the sound (though those are both true), the other instruments in the band have been developed over the years with those sounds in mind, so they leave specific frequency zones unused that they want the bass to sit in. Usually, while you can get some cool tones from other basses, you end up playing a square peg/round hole game with them in the mix, and I've been asked many times not to bring those basses back. A great engineer can make the other basses work (basically compress and EQ them into Fender type parameters), but pretty much anybody can get an appropriately chosen Leo style bass to sit in a tasty spot, so you can get back to worrying about dynamics, note choice, not duration, creating space and vibe. The stuff you should be thinking about.
Its not closed mindedness either. Those "other" basses really do sound weird in the mix most of the time. There are exceptions, and other basses that can be great, but you really can't loose with a Leo design for rock, funk, blues, raggae, R&B ... any "band" music really.
IMHO/YMMV -- but those who disagree, I'd suggest opening your mind to the idea that a Fender might just sound best and give it a real try.
Edit: its not 100%, more like 90%. Some bands have liked lower-fi basses like my old Guild B-302. Nobody has preferred a modern active bass though.
Its not just our ears and our music that are used to the sound (though those are both true), the other instruments in the band have been developed over the years with those sounds in mind, so they leave specific frequency zones unused that they want the bass to sit in. Usually, while you can get some cool tones from other basses, you end up playing a square peg/round hole game with them in the mix, and I've been asked many times not to bring those basses back. A great engineer can make the other basses work (basically compress and EQ them into Fender type parameters), but pretty much anybody can get an appropriately chosen Leo style bass to sit in a tasty spot, so you can get back to worrying about dynamics, note choice, not duration, creating space and vibe. The stuff you should be thinking about.
Its not closed mindedness either. Those "other" basses really do sound weird in the mix most of the time. There are exceptions, and other basses that can be great, but you really can't loose with a Leo design for rock, funk, blues, raggae, R&B ... any "band" music really.
IMHO/YMMV -- but those who disagree, I'd suggest opening your mind to the idea that a Fender might just sound best and give it a real try.
Edit: its not 100%, more like 90%. Some bands have liked lower-fi basses like my old Guild B-302. Nobody has preferred a modern active bass though.
I guess I kind of took advantage of this whole phenomenon. Recently I needed a solid all around, workhorse, widely accepted bass so I went out and bought an MIM P that really spoke to me and sounds like a beast. Point being that I (whilst aspiring to be a professional bassist) decided that to conform would be more beneficial to me at this point than to try and find that new sound to create.
Side note, I play more DB currently than EB and all I really need is solid gear that wont break down. I love many many EB tones that are deffinately not Fender, but because of my life goals the Fender sound is something I need in my arsenal
Side note, I play more DB currently than EB and all I really need is solid gear that wont break down. I love many many EB tones that are deffinately not Fender, but because of my life goals the Fender sound is something I need in my arsenal
Clearly if you look at it, some of Leo's creations sound hardly traditional. I mean, Jaco and Pino's tones aren't exactly conventional. The 80's had its' share of Spector NS-2 use and I think it's unconventional sound had a nice bite without being too odd.
Usually most people telling me to open my mind to Fender haven't exactly (by that I mean HAVEN'T) tried much other stuff. I've taken a lot of crap for my CB and how people think it sounds, but it sounds almost exactly like a fretless Fender.
I think maybe people don't care so much for the particular sound of the bass guitar as we obviously do.
There is a certain amount of people here that want a "progression" of bass sounds and few Studio engineers are willing to bet thier farms on the fact that 99% of the listening public can't tell the diference between a P or J and otherwise.
People are acclimated towards a certain sound and you never go wrong with a P or J bass .. that part is true... I love the way a rickenbacker sits in the mix as well as a warwick... can't speak for the rest, but if you go into a major recording studio with demanding musicians and engineers I can promise you they will not give you any "guff" about showing up with a P or J bass... bring your dingwall or otherwise and they may not like it.. sorry but that is the unbiased truth... like it or not.
Even Prince demands a Fender Jazz bass.
There is a certain amount of people here that want a "progression" of bass sounds and few Studio engineers are willing to bet thier farms on the fact that 99% of the listening public can't tell the diference between a P or J and otherwise.
People are acclimated towards a certain sound and you never go wrong with a P or J bass .. that part is true... I love the way a rickenbacker sits in the mix as well as a warwick... can't speak for the rest, but if you go into a major recording studio with demanding musicians and engineers I can promise you they will not give you any "guff" about showing up with a P or J bass... bring your dingwall or otherwise and they may not like it.. sorry but that is the unbiased truth... like it or not.
Even Prince demands a Fender Jazz bass.
Everyone has different goals, and everyone needs different tools to accomplish them.
btw, where does the notion of a $10k bass come from? The bulk of custom basses don't approach that mark in the least.
btw, where does the notion of a $10k bass come from? The bulk of custom basses don't approach that mark in the least.
I was hoping to eventually bring that up, but I think it demonstrates the "experience" people have with 'em, eh?
It's fine to have preferances and opinions, but it's ignorant to take so many shots at gear when there's no real experience. Rumors aren't experience. Really, Alembic is one of the few companies where you're gonna hit the $10k mark on some models. Fodera? Perhaps if you go kinda crazy. Conklin? Maybe if you go REALLY crazy. The new wave of builders like Stambaugh, Cliff Bordwell, etc? Maybe if you go extremely crazy and order two of them! Besides, with Fender's recent price hike, I'm thinking the value of my handmade stuff isn't half bad!
I admit that the 10,000 dollar mark was high. The point I was originally try to make was that more people on the forum are saving for that ultimate bass as if it were a portal to greatness. Spade2you; I respect your opinion. However; I still have yet to hear even a fodera blow me away too the point I felt that it justified the price. Its a status symbol for most. Any of my bass hero's would make my basses sound better then me. You seem to take some of this personal it seem's. As far a guitarist go "most" of the great one's played fender. But I am sure you feel that is just me looking for fender player's. Personally I can make my jazz or p bass sound almost the same "I do a lot of muting". What "I" like is that my jazz can do more different styles then any other bass I have owned. Does not make anything that I said right; only right for me. 4000 to me is not that much for a bass; and they do sound different. But in the mix it is very hard to justify; as the engineer will what he want's.
Lastly, living in chicago "only the second biggest city" I have seen basses around the 10,000 mark. Some were owned by famous people; not a lot but some. We are taking stab's at each other and don't know just how much gear either of us has owned or played. It really shows just how conversations can go south. Never meant to cause a real stir was just saying my experience. So anyone who felt that way my apology. Was not looking to debate; just comment. My statement's as well as opinion's change as the years pass.
I find that I prefer to have some sort of unquantifiable-maybe even 'mystical'-connection with an instrument. I've played many instruments and tone isn't the only consideration. For me, if a bass feels right, then I can make it sound right with eq and technique. The guys that I play with need me to be comfortable, and vice versa to play my/their best. Maybe the audience (or, hey, maybe even I) can't tell the difference in tone between my customs and inexpensive basses---but, they sure can tell if I'm not comfortable on the bandstand---and more importantly, I can tell when I'm not comfortable.
In the end, if people don't dig my tone or the look of my bass, I'm cool with that. If people aren't digging my feel and note choice, then I'll start worrying.
Edit--Sometimes a Fender is what I'm feeling in the moment, sometimes it's not. I don't mean to imply that Fender's don't feel good. It all depends on the gig. Fender's are nice basses, but not always the right choice for ME.
In the end, if people don't dig my tone or the look of my bass, I'm cool with that. If people aren't digging my feel and note choice, then I'll start worrying.
Edit--Sometimes a Fender is what I'm feeling in the moment, sometimes it's not. I don't mean to imply that Fender's don't feel good. It all depends on the gig. Fender's are nice basses, but not always the right choice for ME.
I agree with what "NickyBass" had to say. What I want people see is that I chimed in because I wanted the young bass players to learn from my mistakes. I wish someone would have talked to me before some of my buys. It real is all about note choice and feel; and some people have lost that concept. I try to be helpful when it comes to people first starting out. Things we say here real do influence younger players. I just want to help.
Sure, there are a few guys who buy 'em as status symbols and maybe display more than play. There are all sorts of people who will meet or defy stereotypes.
As for the "value" of these basses, it can indeed vary between manufacturer. It has been a really long time since I've played a Fodera, but I have a Stambaugh (at less than half the price) that I'm hoping might come close.
Keep in mind, a lot of "dream basses" don't always include a lot of research, brand name, a certain image, and large price tag. If you do your reasearch, you won't necessarily need to break the bank. I recently spec'd out a Cliff Bordwell 6er that I'm ordering and said, "that's it?" when I got the price tag. If you find relatively new or small scale luthier, you can often find pretty reasonable prices. It's when they become big n' famous where you really start to pay through the nose.
I'm curious what kind of music you play and what other basses you're talking about.
I dig. And it's a good lesson too. If it's going to dip into the kids college fund, I would never advise someone to buy a custom bass. They aren't necessary. I played for years on a production bass and never had any complaints.
Through the years, I've learned what I like and don't like on basses and am on the search for the ONE.
I'm not a full blown Fender/P/Jazz hater, I'm just a non-conformist. I like the classic look of a '51 P or a '76 Jazz but they're not for me. I like more modern shapes and pick-ups/configurations.
I -AM- however still after that greasy, buttery (lord forgive me) Jaco tone.
[edit] I stray as hard as I can from Maple/Maple or any other "standard" woods, also. They all sound too punchy.
I -AM- however still after that greasy, buttery (lord forgive me) Jaco tone.
[edit] I stray as hard as I can from Maple/Maple or any other "standard" woods, also. They all sound too punchy.
I'll never forget the first time I handled a "real" Fender bass I was in awe (and about 12) and the feeling when I bought my first one. I still feel most of that today every time I buy new Fender. Leo's basses have always been the benchmark for me and even the other brands that catch my eye (Lakland, Sadowsky etc) are generally the ones that are variants of the P and J.
