Who played in Kenny G live?

[ZenderBender]

they don't become better musicians expressly FOR public adoration, but it just seems like a little love from the larger public would be a bit of compensation for their hard work, just a thought.


And how could you call a man (Pat Metheny) who used Jim Hall's unique style as a launching pad for over thirty years of cutting edge music, using his jazz training to explore styles as diverse as Americana, Brazilian music, free jazz, and several extented compositions ("Secret Story" and "The Way Up") a REACTIONARY? He's always breaking new ground, but always with the utmost taste. Whereas Wynton's music is a tacky pastiche, which ham-fistedly tries to fuse Armstrong and Coltrane, all while sounding so dated out-of-the-box that King Oliver would blush. But Branford is the man.

 

[MR PC]

I sure wish I had the commanding grasp of scales, modes, and theory, as well as the sense of phrasing, melody, and arrangement that this 'businessman' has. For ****'s sake, dude, you can say you don't like the guy's music, but to sit there and state that he's not even a musician at all is just asinine.

Kenny G has everything he needs to get the job done for his business ventures. That would include being considered a musician.

musician |myoōˈzi sh ən|
noun
a person who is talented or skilled in music : your father was a fine musician.
• a person who plays a musical instrument, esp. professionally : aspiring rock and pop musicians.musician |myoōˈzi sh ən|
noun

businessman |ˈbiznisˌman; -mən|
noun ( pl. -men)
a man who works in business or commerce, esp. at an executive level.
• [with adj. ] a person with a specified level of skill in financial matters : his knowledge and talent were never in question, but he was a poor businessman.

I think it's safe to say that Kenny's skill as a businessman has more to do with his success, than the skills as a musician he has chosen to show the world.

 

[DougD]

Yes, you and Bruce should get along splendidly.


I probably couldn't agree less with most of this. Anger at Kenny G is at best misplaced. If they're mad because the public at large doesn't love them, they should blame the public and not themselves? Did they make themselves better musicians FOR PUBLIC ADORATION? If so, their thinking is flawed at best.

Wyn ton's crew is reactionary... and Metheny's isn't?

Gotta love tiers.


Jazz, at least what used to be called Jazz, doesn't connect with the masses. It never has. Most likely it never will. i disagree with the idea that people like what they like because they're somehow forced to like it... as if things couldn't be geared towards what people are known to like.

What you say about ANY bassist and any guitarist I hope was meant as the gross exaggeration it appears to be. If that were true, one of these jaded virtuosos should shed for a month or two on the instrument, learn those little bit of slapping or blues chords and fill-up the stadiums they apparently crave to fill. Because that's how easy it is to achieve success... pretty much anybody can do it. Just wear a costume so Klaus and the Diva don't find out.


Then, in their downtime, they can blow miraculous lines over 18 verses of "Misty" to the delight of their more intimate following.

Problem solved!


Anyone who has worked for years to become a virtuoso and has somehow missed the fact that the public does not idolize that needs to get out of the shed a bit and get into the real world. To be angry about someone else's success is PETTY.

But of course angry is not jealous.

Alright! Enough is too much already! For that remarkably sensible comment, I hereby banish you to THE BASSMENT!! There, you shall learn EVERY note in the FAKE books volumes 1 through 335! You shall play songs that only a hand full of bobble headed people in your town likes! And enlightened toe tapping ditty's that move virtually no one, and hardly anyone will PAY to see you perform! Then, maybe you'll learn some respect young man! Oh the nerve!!

 

[DougD]

Was that too condescending? cause I really feel cheap Now

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Yes, you and Bruce should get along splendidly.


I probably couldn't agree less with most of this. Anger at Kenny G is at best misplaced.

I'm not fighting or angry at Kenny G - in fact if it wasn't for TB I would never have heard of him!

I've never seen his records for sale here or heard him played on the radio - the whole smooth Jazz thing has never got to the UK and if I asked maybe 20 acquaintances who are music fans, they would not be able to tell you what Smooth Jazz is!!

My sole reason for taking part here is to stand up for Pat Metheny and other great Jazz musicians I know about - where I have seen them denigrated or misquoted on this thread.

I have not said a word against any musicians - I challenge you to find a quote from any of my posts..?

I have been standing up for those great players I do know!

 

[JimK]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson
"Yes, I have. Since Funk isn't quality music, it should've been much easier to do".

Originally Posted by TimWilson
"Oh, man, you like to live dangerously, brother! Can you hear all these funk players trying to google your home address right now? I'd have a friend start the car for you this week..."

It was sarcasm.

Wow...Earth to Tim.

 

[TimWilson]

Wow...Earth to Tim.

"Tim's unavailable at the moment: He's waiting anxiously in a long line at Sam Ash with a basketful of Kenny G CDs and DVDs, sipping a strong blackberry margarita from a cleverly disguised milk jug and daydreaming wistfully about Cindy McCain and the inherent sadness of D minor.

Check back later..."

 

[Brad Johnson]

they don't become better musicians expressly FOR public adoration, but it just seems like a little love from the larger public would be a bit of compensation for their hard work, just a thought.

Awww

Seriously, just a little love would do? They already get that

If they really want the adoration of the general public, trying to get them to like music that just does not connect with them is just plain stupid. Far more stupid than one would expect from such educated virtuosos.

The compensation for their hard work SHOULD be that they realize they have achieved a personal goal. Anything else is gravy.

And how could you call a man (Pat Metheny) who used Jim Hall's unique style as a launching pad for over thirty years of cutting edge music, using his jazz training to explore styles as diverse as Americana, Brazilian music, free jazz, and several extented compositions ("Secret Story" and "The Way Up") a REACTIONARY?

How? First you explain what you think reactionary means and then I'll explain why the tag fits Metheny in reference to Kenny G (note: your explanation may negate me having to expand on this)

He's always breaking new ground, but always with the utmost taste. Whereas Wynton's music is a tacky pastiche, which ham-fistedly tries to fuse Armstrong and Coltrane, all while sounding so dated out-of-the-box that King Oliver would blush. But Branford is the man.

Let me guess... you really like Metheny and you don't like Marsalis.


I love it when they eat their own. Thanks for the chuckle.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Kenny G has everything he needs to get the job done for his business ventures. That would include being considered a musician.

musician |myoōˈzi sh ən|
noun
a person who is talented or skilled in music : your father was a fine musician.
• a person who plays a musical instrument, esp. professionally : aspiring rock and pop musicians.musician |myoōˈzi sh ən|
noun

businessman |ˈbiznisˌman; -mən|
noun ( pl. -men)
a man who works in business or commerce, esp. at an executive level.
• [with adj. ] a person with a specified level of skill in financial matters : his knowledge and talent were never in question, but he was a poor businessman.

I think it's safe to say that Kenny's skill as a businessman has more to do with his success, than the skills as a musician he has chosen to show the world.

Nice assumption. Ever heard of a manager?

 

[Brad Johnson]

I'm not fighting or angry at Kenny G - in fact if it wasn't for TB I would never have heard of him!

Did I say YOU personally were either? The anger I was referring to was described in ZenderBender's post. Did you even read it?

I've never seen his records for sale here or heard him played on the radio - the whole smooth Jazz thing has never got to the UK and if I asked maybe 20 acquaintances who are music fans, they would not be able to tell you what Smooth Jazz is!!

Then being that blind to what Metheny's talking about, if you know nothing how do you know it's not an eloquent LIE?


A lie that you support just because.

My sole reason for taking part here is to stand up for Pat Metheny and other great Jazz musicians I know about - where I have seen them denigrated or misquoted on this thread.

As opposed to you trying to dismiss Metheny's blatantly denigrating words towards someone he doesn't know? Just for grins, put these words of Metheny's back in context and show me they aren't as negatve as they appear:

"spewing his lame-ass, jive, pseudo bluesy, out-of-tune, noodling, wimped out, ****ed up playing".

That was not a misquote... and deep down you know it.

You didn't see me misquote him... and you still defended his angry words.


Lame-ass, jive, noodling, wimped out... and yet you still are intentionally blind to their meaning. Yes, it's negative. Context be damned.

This was part of the entirety of his rant. But go ahead and prove your context point. This should be fun... except for the fact that you can't do it.

I have not said a word against any musicians - I challenge you to find a quote from any of my posts..?

Phil Collins ring a bell? #113
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWBass
Maybe it's his songs? Are y'all the same cats who think Phil Collins sucks too?

Bruce: This argument has become so long and convoluted that I can't follow it any more - but there is a definitive answer to the above:

As a drummer - No!

As a singer/songwriter - Yes!!

That certainly looks like you saying he sucks... don't it?


Oh, and post #17 was most likely a compliment.


And #20. And in #119 you called some of Phil Collin's music "crap" (yes, you used that word)


Pretty silly challenge in retrospect? I'd think so... especially considering how many times you did it.


It makes perfect sense in light of you being the one who staunchly proclaimed that Metheny didn't say Kenny G sucked and then refused to acknowledge that he actually said far, far worse.

Unless of course you are the only one who gets to pick and choose.

I have been standing up for those great players I do know!

So you're completely uninformed on half of the discussion?

Sweet.

 

[DWBass]

Don't forget post #139.

Specifically.............

Everything I said here is exactly the same as what I would say to Gorelick if I ever saw him in person. and if I ever DO see him anywhere, at any function - he WILL get a piece of my mind and (maybe a guitar wrapped around his head.)

 

[KeithPas]

This is starting to get interesting.

 

[ac11367]

Wow, I come in very late in this discussion...

Kenny G is the Michael Bolton of smooth jazz. Or Kenny G to jazz is like Michael Bolton to soul.

 

[MR PC]

Nice assumption. Ever heard of a manager?

manager |ˈmanijər|
noun
a person responsible for controlling or administering all or part of a company or similar organization : the manager of a bar | the sales manager.
• a person who controls the activities, business dealings, and other aspects of the career of an entertainer, athlete, group of musicians, etc. : she left it to her manager to deal with the canceled concerts.
• a person in charge of the activities, tactics, and training of a sports team : Frank Robinson became baseball's first black manager.
• (in a high school or college) a student who assists the coach of an athletic team.
• [with adj. ] Computing a program or system that controls or organizes a peripheral device or process : a file manager.

Yes, I have. I would assume that Mr. Gorman is more than intelligent enough to hire the very best management team to fulfill his business aspirations.

 

[KeithPas]

Its getting a little tense around here huh? I love it !!

 

[Alan Vorse]

Yes, and the fact that he got rich playing light bouncy instrumental funk without spending all that time running scales in a basement somewhere made a lot of true blue jazz musicians green with envy. So they fired up the chain saws and went to work cutting him down. It doesn't sound very "enlightened", but thats basically what happened IMHO

The reason I include the joke at the end was illustrate that not only jazz musicians, but people in the industry don't care for Gorelick's music.

 

[DWBass]

.....but people in the industry don't care for Gorelick's music.

Really? Then why did/does 'the industry' try so hard to duplicate his success with other artists?? I think there's more people, than you'd care to believe, who actually do like Gorelicks music! I've heard some horrible music from Smooth Jazz artists! Especially from those who have embraced the genre! Where's the outcry directed at those artists? :scowl:

 

[IB3K]

Really? Where's the outcry directed at those artists? :scowl:

When those in the industry don't care for your music they give you this thing called a Grammy. At least that's what happened with Kenny G.

 

[Alan Vorse]

Why because God forbid that 40 million people may wander into the "Jazz" section your former store and contaminate the "Jazz" grounds.

Part of this is jazz musicians will be jazz musicians. The whole idea if it's an upright bass it's jazz but electric bass? No way. OK fine, been there done that.

But when you say Kenny G= Businessman (or farmer, dental hygienist or whatever other profession you can think of) you are also saying that Kenny G=Con-man, by definition. Otherwise the distinction is meaningless. Going down that road is just ad hominem crap.

All of that against the person stuff.... for example "lame-ass, jive, pseudo bluesy, out-of-tune, noodling, wimped out, ****ed up playing" doesn't somehow purify the "art". On the contrary it makes those who profess that it's indeed art look foolish, which isn't helping jazz any. When Metheny talks to 8-11 year olds about jazz and says that "Kenny G plays the dumbest music in the world", well...... that makes me happy that I define myself as a session musician.

The mind blowing thing is that the entire genre has already been modified by the word "smooth". It's not like KG is trying to shake that modifier. And still people try to expunge him from the genre all together. To repeat above, lots of things get called jazz. He's not writing 2000 word essays saying "Stop calling me 'smooth', I'm straight ahead fusion jazz. Metheny needs to redefine himself to paleo jazz or I'm not happy."

Is it so hard to say "Smooth jazz is not my cup of tea, but if you like it by all means enjoy yourself."? Would it be such a crime if Kenny G led someone to like Coltrane or is that person tainted for life and not allowed in the club?

Hmmm. In a way I was actually defending Kenneth (shudder) by pointing out that he never claimed to be a jazz musician.

I guess what I'm saying is, there might be people out there that due to industry/radio/press think Kenneth is in the same category as Charlie Parker, which is false.

 

[DWBass]

I guess what I'm saying is, there might be people out there that due to industry/radio/press think Kenneth is in the same category as Charlie Parker, which is false.

Anyone remotely knowledgeable about music wouldn't have those thoughts! If they did, they are really naive! And it's the record companies and music stores who lump him in that category. Dave Koz is in the same boat. He's claimed (as do many instrumental artists) that he is not a jazz musician.