Who SHOULD decide how your bass sounds live?

[brianrost]

I can't recall having a conversation with a sound man beyond suggesting he do a dip in the mids around 800hZ on the DB and no bass in the monitors unless someone else asks for it. I've never asked to have the amp miked, but some guys will mike it. I don't get to go out into the audience to hear what they hear and it's never mattered to me. Soundmen who work the same room(s) all the time have a better idea of what works in the room then I would.

If the soundman has decent ears and is familiar with the style of music and the sound of various instruments, it should be OK. When I played in a band with a bagpiper, most guys had no idea how to even mike it!

 

[jeffreylee]

Interesting. Most of the shows I play (and attend) are smallish club gigs. Most of the musicians are part-time players while most of the sound engineers are full time professionals. In this world I see a LOT of bass players who don't really know where there bass should sit in the mix and the sound guy actually fixes or improves it. I always bring my own DI and a long lead so I can get out off stage during soundcheck so I can hear it for myself. And make tweaks or suggestions if necessary.

 

[MrLenny1]

As a weekend warrior I have yet to meet a FOH tech that asks how I like my sound.
Half of them are hacks and the other half do a good job overall.
Having that option would be great though.

 

[retslock]

If the engineer has ears there should never be a problem.

Yes exactly. Good engineers will make you sound good but “good” is subjective. It just might not be what you were after. Essentially I agree with you though. It’s not something I’ve ever worried about to be honest. Your fate is in their hands so I just make sure they have a good signal and then it’s “Count me in”.

 

[kirkplunkett]

Should the sound engineer have total decision in how the bass instrument should sound?

Yes, they should.

The middle ground you speak of is what happens when your band makes enough money and has enough interest to hire their own Sound Engineer.

 

[Wesley R]

Maybe whoever is paying me?

 

[jhfishn]

My constant gripe for years is:

A guitar player buys an amp and mics it because of a sound he/she's trying to get. They have an idea of what tone they want and THAT is what they want to head out to the crowd.

I bought tons of amps through the years for that very same but elusive reason and finally have the tone and punch I like (for now at least). I have the Trickfish 408 x2 and the Bullhead .5 amp and I love the clarity and punch of this thing and anyone I work with comment to that in the affirmative as well.

That all goes out the window once I'm told to use a direct line with no mic. Now I'm using just the amp and whatever the person out front wants to set it at so it's their game now.

The deal is I've spent over 50 years at this and I think I have an idea of what I'm looking for .... but that's just my thought on it.

I've done a good deal of Atlantic City showroom work where you are part of the orchestra for whatever headliner is there and the casino has their gear usually set up.
They take a direct line before the amp so one line goes to the board and one to the amp so the amp is only a stage monitor which makes sense but they wind up setting the tone so you sound like a stratocaster

I never have them pump it back to my monitor because it's just so brittle and winds up changing how you play.

Oh well ............. it's their house I suppose and if you want the gig you have to suck it up ........... so I'm grateful but don't understand why it's so accepted that the guitars get a mic and the bass gets a line out


Rant and opinion is over ....

 

[Alex J]

I've had so many poor experiences in local venues with engineers who are drunk, stoned or just generally hopeless, it's hard not to stereotype. Like the one who said 'bass guitar can't have any mids in the tone', or the one who thought a 12 piece funk band would be fine without any mics in a cavernous room. And if you come on stage and mess with my amp mid song we will be having words!

But on better stages with professional engineers, I find they often manage to recreate the sound of the band on stage, but louder. Which is what you want, really.

So I'd say it's the band's responsibility to provide a good sound, and the engineer's responsibility to translate that to the room as closely as possible.

 

[ILIA]

Ultimately, when the concert actually starts, you can't stop an engineer from doing what they want to, no matter what went down at the sound check.

 

[crobasster]

Imagine how uniform would be any bass sound if the musicians don't decide on how their sound will be !

 

[Kevorargh]

I've played a wide variety of stages, gigs, and festivals. Most of the time these days I play small places with my own PA, which handles vocals and acoustic guitars. For the rare gig, with a soundman, I bring my small rig and DI out of the amp, and let the soundman handle it from there. The reality is that the sound guy rules your FOH sound, and you live with it. Sometimes I can hear it and it sounds awesome, sometimes it sounds like ass (to me). The control of my tone is in the monitors or my amp on stage.

I have learned to live with the FOH and to work on my stage tone, because that's all that really matters to me anyway. Nobody else cares that FOH doesn't sound the way I want it to, and bizarrely enough, I get paid the same either way.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Your playing and timing are so much more important than some subtle nuance of tone that you tweaked in your basement.

 

[Steadfast]

What kind of gig matters a lot for who is in control. If you are a bassist that solos a lot— then the bassists needs should come first. But, I also play in a mega church where I am really just a prop. I don’t give a crap what the engineer does.

and, if I dared to say anything at church they zap my shock collar. Same thing if I go above the 12th fret.

 

[Dbassmon]

Perhaps the audio tech did jack Rocco's tone, and perhaps Rocco cranked his amp and the band asked for so much bass on stage that it was simply impossible to deliver a nice bass sound to the audience. Who's fault is this, when the musicians make it impossible for the audio tech to do a good job? This happens a lot in my experience.

I have seen Rocco many times, I am a huge fan of him and TOP. I consider Rocco to be one of the elite bassists on this planet. The rhythm section of which he is a part, is the tightest thing you ever heard. The only way that happens is if everyone occupies the perfect sonic and rhythmic space. After 50+ years, I am confident that the horrific sound was not Rocco's amp. I have seen him in clubs and concert halls. He knows how to get a sound. Having toured the world myself, I assure that you are the mercy of whoever is mixing, either house or monitors. Either engineer can turn a show into glory or disaster. FWIW

 

[31HZ]

Interesting. Most of the shows I play (and attend) are smallish club gigs. Most of the musicians are part-time players while most of the sound engineers are full time professionals. In this world I see a LOT of bass players who don't really know where there bass should sit in the mix and the sound guy actually fixes or improves it. I always bring my own DI and a long lead so I can get out off stage during soundcheck so I can hear it for myself. And make tweaks or suggestions if necessary.

I couldn't agree more.

Undoubtedly on TGP or GearSlutz there are pages and pages of threads about bass players who don't know what they hell they are doing and trainwreck the entire live mix.

 

[shwashwa]

i think get the sound you want out of the amp and its the sound person's job to make that sound come through the mix. that might take eq slotting, but your preferred sound should be his reference.

 

[lfmn16]

The sounds engineer should reproduce the sound the band wants UNLESS there is some compelling reason not to. The fact that he prefers a different sound is not a compelling reason. People come to see the band, not the sound engineer. They have more excuses than a dog has fleas, but most of them are bull spit.

It doesn't matter who is paying him. I hear this nonsense all the time. Does anyone really think the club owner gives a shirt what it sounds like? As long as people are drinking and making him money, he doesn't care. So spare me this weak, BS excuse.

I do say this with one caveat. My opinion is based on the sound engineer having to mix a single band, or a band with an opening act. If it's one of these "as many bands as we can pack into an evening" shows, then they do the best they can and we live with the results.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Everyone should run sound for at least one gig.

 

[arbiterusa]

I don't care.

I pull a pre-EQ feed off my amp (or from a direct box) and just let the FOH have at it. What I NEED is:

1. some form of bass in the stage mix, either my amp or monitors, where I can tell which notes I'm playing.
2. My vocals nice and loud in the feed. If I get my own monitor mix, my vocals need to be a touch louder than anyone else's.

The rest of it is on FOH and so long as the audience is getting enough bass in the booty to keep them moving, that is truly all I care about.

I do have one requirement and it's only come up once: don't mic my amp. That tweeter is there for a reason.

 

[fhm555]

This one is easy. Whoever is paying the bass player decides how the bass sounds.