Who's using Westone Am Pro IEMS? Whatcha got to say?

[BurningSkies]

We've been 'using' an IEM unit on stage now for a couple years with mixed levels of buy in. I have a pack that's pedalboard mounted, but mostly go without because I found that the 'isolation' made it really hard for me to read the room, which made me feel like we're not going over...and not feed on the energy of the crowd.

At one point I set up an AT2020 pointed at the crowd but it ended up just sounding funky. I'm about to try another tighter patterned condenser, but it's been suggested I look at the Westone AM Pro 20's as a solution. The person in question told me he's been using them and loves them...that they allow him to feel like he's in the room and in the band.

Who's using any of these (10's, 20's 30's) and what's your experience?

I currently have a barely used set of Shure SE-215's and I have a pile of KZ-4 and 5-driver IEMs that I've preferred for overall soundquality/meeting price-point.

 

[hs123]

I have the Um 30 Pro. The most amazing headphones I've tried. The bass responce is great. I haven't been able to test 64audio or others. My dream IEMs are the Nathan East N8's, but I don't play out enough to justify the upgrade.

 

[BurningSkies]

I have the Um 30 Pro. The most amazing headphones I've tried. The bass responce is great. I haven't been able to test 64audio or others. My dream IEMs are the Nathan East N8's, but I don't play out enough to justify the upgrade.

Cool. Yeah, I know that the UM's are well thought of...I'm particularly interested in the AM's since they let in ambient sound and how successful that's been for people who use them.

 

[musicman7722]

I have a pair of the AM20's. They are fine and I like them as much as my UM20's but if you are hoping to hear the outside world, well you won't. Only at no volume.

 

[BurningSkies]

I have a pair of the AM20's. They are fine and I like them as much as my UM20's but if you are hoping to hear the outside world, well you won't. Only at no volume.

Ah, yeah, I'm trying to get a piece of the audience noise if I can.

 

[musicman7722]

Isn't going to happen. You either need outside mikes to mix in or go back to a wedge.

 

[BurningSkies]

Isn't going to happen. You either need outside mikes to mix in or go back to a wedge.

How about all of the above.

We've played around with having audience mics (and we're trying a new set in the next few weeks). They tend to make stuff sound a bit funky and washy. We also have stage volume.

 

[s0c9]

The simple fact is that some folks will never make the move to IEM's.. and some of that is based on your band role.
If you are not the BL, it's not clear to me what you need from the audience?
We also tried the ambient stage mics for audience noise. They were more trouble than they were worth and we dumped them.
Many audience members have become used to bands using IEM's and will come up between songs, tho' some still think we are DJ's and can stop playing in the middle of a song and have a 100% focused on them conversation!

IME - as alluded to by @musicman7722 - you have 2 choices if you want to be able to feel the crowd with IEM's (I'll add one more ) - wedges or get your ambient mics working.
The THIRD choice which I am adding, is to get IEM's with ambient ports and adjust your mix volume to be able to hear some of the stage/crowd bleed.
With the ADEL modules in my 64 A8's I can hear stage noise and the crowd - when the band isn't actively playing a song.
They act like ambient ports. Mine are the factory stock modules, (-25db?) but they are also available in -10, -15 and -20dB modules, for like $99 ea (last time I looked).
The issue with all of these options is that you have to BUY to TRY! None of this stuff is cheap.

 

[BurningSkies]

The simple fact is that some folks will never make the move to IEM's.. and some of that is based on your band role.
If you are not the BL, it's not clear to me what you need from the audience?
We also tried the ambient stage mics for audience noise. They were more trouble than they were worth and we dumped them.
Many audience members have become used to bands using IEM's and will come up between songs, tho' some still think we are DJ's and can stop playing in the middle of a song and have a 100% focused on them conversation!

IME - as alluded to by @musicman7722 - you have 2 choices if you want to be able to feel the crowd with IEM's (I'll add one more ) - wedges or get your ambient mics working.
The THIRD choice which I am adding, is to get IEM's with ambient ports and adjust your mix volume to be able to hear some of the stage/crowd bleed.
With the ADEL modules in my 64 A8's I can hear stage noise and the crowd - when the band isn't actively playing a song.
They act like ambient ports. Mine are the factory stock modules, (-25db?) but they are also available in -10, -15 and -20dB modules, for like $99 ea (last time I looked).
The issue with all of these options is that you have to BUY to TRY! None of this stuff is cheap.

That's what the AM Pro's are. They have ambient porting along with multi-driver components.

I'm totally perplexed why you'd think that only 'band leaders' need audience feedback or ambient room sound. All our members prefer to be able to hear the room. There's energy there that the band taps into and it's a symbiotic relationship. Also, while I don't sing, I do act as a 'band leader' in our management and stage contexts though we do have at least 3 people in this role. I generally don't need my own wedge even without IEMs, stage levels are reasonable and I can hear most instruments clearly. There's a precision to IEM that does help though.

 

[s0c9]

I'm totally perplexed why you'd think that only 'band leaders' need audience feedback or ambient room sound. All our members prefer to be able to hear the room. There's energy there that the band taps into and it's a symbiotic relationship. Also, while I don't sing, I do act as a 'band leader' in our management and stage contexts though we do have at least 3 people in this role. I generally don't need my own wedge even without IEMs, stage levels are reasonable and I can hear most instruments clearly. There's a precision to IEM that does help though.

I guess it depends on one's music style, etc. But I was taking it from my perspective. Playing bass, I don't need a lot of audience feedback.. or maybe I've just been doing if for so long that.. idk.

 

[BurningSkies]

I guess it depends on one's music style, etc. But I was taking it from my perspective. Playing bass, I don't need a lot of audience feedback.. or maybe I've just been doing if for so long that.. idk.

Can I just play to IEM? Sure? But it doesn't have the same energy or experience as open air. We've had our system for 2 years and for the most part, it ends up being our vocalists using it so they can make sure their harmonies are clear, and they're both getting more audience through their vocal channels. It would be great if it worked for everyone effectively.

 

[s0c9]

Can I just play to IEM? Sure? But it doesn't have the same energy or experience as open air. We've had our system for 2 years and for the most part, it ends up being our vocalists using it so they can make sure their harmonies are clear, and they're both getting more audience through their vocal channels. It would be great if it worked for everyone effectively.

idk.. been using IEM's for close to 10 yrs now - both in my secular bands and at church - both wireless and wired.
I had to do a non-IEM gig last month (long story) with my band, no wedge and only FOH as monitors. It was loud (dang those cymbals cut thru) and we are NOT a loud band on stage.
My ears were ringing at the end of the night and the 1st set was a total mind-phreak trying to work out where things I had quite clearly panned/balanced in my IEM mix were buried.
I could barely hear harmonies, the other guitar was non-existent, except for leads. The pedal steel was only heard during leads and the cymbals were an ever-present noise in my ears. I didn't get extra audience feedback without the IEM's either
Given the choice I'll do IEM's over wedges and stage volume any day, tho I do understand others needs to hear the crowd.
It's one of those personal choices, like choosing a bass
That said.. I believe the ambient ports will help some. I have not tried the AM Pro's tho.

 

[BurningSkies]

idk.. been using IEM's for close to 10 yrs now - both in my secular bands and at church - both wireless and wired.
I had to do a non-IEM gig last month (long story) with my band, no wedge and only FOH as monitors. It was loud (dang those cymbals cut thru) and we are NOT a loud band on stage.
My ears were ringing at the end of the night and the 1st set was a total mind-phreak trying to work out where things I had quite clearly in my IEM mix were in the mix (without them).
I could barely hear harmonies, the other guitar was buried, except for leads. The pedal steel was only heard during leads and the cymbals were an ever-present noise in my ears. I didn't get extra audience feedback either
Given the choice I'll do IEM's over wedges and stage volume any day, tho I do understand others needs to hear the crowd.
It's one of those personal choices, like choosing a bass
That said.. I believe the ambient ports will help some. I have not tried the AM Pro's tho.

The filters in the ports are -12db, I talked to someone who does use them and he says he loves them but acknowledges that they don't work for everyone. Generally speaking on stage, we only have two live wedges, one at the drum kit and our keys player uses one (he's SR, I'm SL). Those mostly are carrying only keys and vocals so our stage volume isn't the worst.

We have to ride the line with our system though. In shows where we're headlining and it's not a festival we set it up and everyone can have the option. If we're an opener or it's a festival where we're nested in the middle of a bunch of bands, we just use whatever they have on stage. We're all over the place in venue and room size. Everywhere from 250 cap rooms up to 4 or 5k depending on the gig.

 

[s0c9]

The filters in the ports are -12db, I talked to someone who does use them and he says he loves them but acknowledges that they don't work for everyone. Generally speaking on stage, we only have two live wedges, one at the drum kit and our keys player uses one (he's SR, I'm SL). Those mostly are carrying only keys and vocals so our stage volume isn't the worst.

We have to ride the line with our system though. In shows where we're headlining and it's not a festival we set it up and everyone can have the option. If we're an opener or it's a festival where we're nested in the middle of a bunch of bands, we just use whatever they have on stage. We're all over the place in venue and room size. Everywhere from 250 cap rooms up to 4 or 5k depending on the gig.

Definitely a tough situation - similar to what we have had to deal with.
We got around that like many bands are doing these days - and I see it 'cus I [freelance] FOH at festivals on down - by having our own self-contained system.
WE have an X32 Rack with an SD8 (for 27 inputs and 16 outs), a 16-ch snake splitter and our wireless IEM transmitters in the same rack.
We can send L/R to the house, take 16 channels from them, GIVE them 16 channels.. basically covering every scenario, including running our own FOH as needed.
I see many bands doing this.. and many FOH folks are aware of it and able to handle it.. especially if both they and the band advance the show and there are tech riders available.

 

[lgrankin]

I'm using UM PRO 30's as well. I have custom fitted tips for them which helps on the comfort side of things on long sessions/gigs, but the included tips also work really well. Great sound!

 

[BurningSkies]

Definitely a tough situation - similar to what we have had to deal with.
We got around that like many bands are doing these days - and I see it 'cus I [freelance] FOH at festivals on down - by having our own self-contained system.
WE have an X32 Rack with an SD8 (for 27 inputs and 16 outs), a 16-ch snake splitter and our wireless IEM transmitters in the same rack.
We can send L/R to the house, take 16 channels from them, GIVE them 16 channels.. basically covering every scenario, including running our own FOH as needed.
I see many bands doing this.. and many FOH folks are aware of it and able to handle it.. especially if both they and the band advance the show and there are tech riders available.

Yeah, we're similarly outfitted, we use a Soundcraft Ui24r that's racked with 24ch of transformer isolated splits. Generally the hardware isn't the problem. It's the timeline. Asking to re-patch through our board or even get 16 channels from them patched correctly on the fly with a 30-60 minute changeover is the real problem.

 

[s0c9]

Yeah, we're similarly outfitted, we use a Soundcraft Ui24r that's racked with 24ch of transformer isolated splits. Generally the hardware isn't the problem. It's the timeline. Asking to re-patch through our board or even get 16 channels from them patched correctly on the fly with a 30-60 minute changeover is the real problem.

Timeline shouldn't be an issue.. 'cus we (I) do that with bands all the time. We take your channels and map to ours. Takes about 5-7 mins if the SR provider has done their homework, prepped for it ahead of time and can hand me a snake. I usually have a 16-ch snake handy to hook you up to our digital stage snakes if you don't have one.. or multiple XLR's if not. It might be the quality of your provider that is the issue, idk?
I would never try to have a band with a self-contained "system" (often with their own sound guy) "USE" my entire system because it's there. We accommodate all variations, and being on both sides of the stage, I totally get the need.

Nice rig, BTW.
I only went with the X32R because of it's expandability. The ability to add/run P16's, S16's, SD16's, etc. from a single unit. A 2nd Ui24R is required to get those features on the Soundcraft.
It was the ONLY thing that stopped me from getting a Ui24R

 

[BurningSkies]

Timeline shouldn't be an issue.. 'cus we (I) do that with bands all the time. We take your channels and map to ours. Takes about 5-7 mins if the SR provider has done their homework, prepped for it ahead of time and can hand me a snake. I usually have a 16-ch snake handy to hook you up to our digital stage snakes if you don't have one.. or multiple XLR's if not. It might be the quality of your provider that is the issue, idk?
I would never try to have a band with a self-contained "system" (often with their own sound guy) "USE" my entire system because it's there. We accommodate all variations, and being on both sides of the stage, I totally get the need.

Nice rig, BTW.
I only went with the X32R because of it's expandability. The ability to add/run P16's, S16's, SD16's, etc. from a single unit. A 2nd Ui24R is required to get those features on the Soundcraft.
It was the ONLY thing that stopped me from getting a Ui24R

The big bonus of the Ui24R for us is that it flawlessly multi-tracks to flashdrive in uncompressed format.

We have a standard plot and line-list that's numbered to match our splits & fan-snake which generally is set so someone can input into our splits then take our snake out... so if someone's on top of it, they can insert our board fairly easily. Our stage setup is paired down to 16 channels these days with a spare included just incase, while we carry a spare snake for the additional 8 channels should it be needed.

But we've had problems along the way...lots of miss-patches etc. in those situations. If they're inserting our board in the middle of the chain there's usually a bit of tracking down what they've mispatched. If they use our board as the main stage input box, then they grouse about rerunning lines.

Of course at 100 gigs a year we're working with about 75 different crews of differing levels of professionalism and knowledge. Last week I had a guy who kept trying to 'homerun' lines to foh that should have been in our system though he'd wired nearly everything into our system? You just never know.

 

[dwade]

Westone ES50 user here. Solid buds.
I've tried many ear buds. The ES50 are good, middle of the road units. I keep a pair of Sure 215's around as backups. I actually like the 215's. They work really well & for just under $100, you can't go wrong. I use the tapered silicone sleeves. It's not nearly the same isolation as a molded set but pretty darn close.

There's certainly a learning curve when transitioning to IEM. For me, it's been worth the time & effort. I started about 15 years ago. You get used to the disconnect. For me, I had to learn to look for the energy in a visual sense as opposed to listening. I can't hear the audience while we're playing anyway but I can see them going nuts. Our live mics pick up the crowd noise between between songs.

 

[BurningSkies]

Westone ES50 user here. Solid buds.
I've tried many ear buds. The ES50 are good, middle of the road units. I keep a pair of Sure 215's around as backups. I actually like the 215's. They work really well & for just under $100, you can't go wrong. I use the tapered silicone sleeves. It's not nearly the same isolation as a molded set but pretty darn close.

There's certainly a learning curve when transitioning to IEM. For
me, it's been worth the time & effort. I started about 15 years ago. You get used to the disconnect. For me, I had to learn to look for the energy in a visual sense as opposed to listening. I can't hear the audience while we're playing anyway but I can see them going nuts. Our live mics pick up the crowd noise between between songs.

I'm hoping a mix of strategies work. I have 215's and also a bunch of the 4 & 5 driver KZ's in my bag. But it's been less about getting isolation or sound that I can use and more about not feeling in the room. I'm hoping I can strike a balance with these plus a decent mic at the audience.