Why 70s Fenders Sucked

[guy n. cognito]

Yeah, what's important is the rate of duds, which seems substantially higher in the 70s

An interesting quote from the article:

"used to work in a music store in the late '50s all the way up to '64, from eighth grade on through high school. First of all, I used to help clean stuff up, and then I was a teacher. I used to unpack Fender guitars. We used to send stuff back. Some of 'em were great guitars and some of 'em weren't. The ones that everyone thinks so finely of are the ones that survived because they were good instruments."

 

[buldog5151bass]

I wasn't aware that 70s Fenders were known to have issues...

Over the past few years "70s winding" and "70s positioning" for jazz pickups have been trendy, but I've never liked either. Standard 60s winding and positioning has always sounded much better to my ears.

However, I've always liked the look of 70s instruments with the maple fingerboard and block inlays.

Marketing - when the supply of reasonably priced pre-CBS Fenders ran dry, Fender began hawking the 70s as vintage.

An interesting quote from the article:

"used to work in a music store in the late '50s all the way up to '64, from eighth grade on through high school. First of all, I used to help clean stuff up, and then I was a teacher. I used to unpack Fender guitars. We used to send stuff back. Some of 'em were great guitars and some of 'em weren't. The ones that everyone thinks so finely of are the ones that survived because they were good instruments."

Yes, but if you read about what it was like in the 70s, there was no comparison. Those of us who were playing in the 70s and 80s remember - you almost could not give one away.

 

[phillipkregg]

View attachment 2985716 Just got this 1980ish Tokai on a trade this weekend, immediately upgraded pups to Dimarzio model p, cts pots, hipshot ultralite tuners, and what the hell a tortoise pickguard, this bass deserved it. I also have a 1980 Fender mia P bass I got from Tim Commerford (I won in a football bet from him) a nice players bass that has seen some miles on it but sounds good and was probably hand picked at one point..
The Dan Smith article I would say is dead on. My Fender has some pretty loose tolerances, neck pocket gaps, frets have been leveled a few times and I'm starting to get fret buzz again, feels more rustic chunky and less precision, although the hardware and electronics are a step up from the Tokai OE equipment which isn't bad either. However, the craftsmanship of the Tokai is much better then the Fender. The Tokai neck is flat no buzz and the bass feels as solid as they can get, playes beautifully and sounds balanced, punchy, and without any dead spots. Dan knew what was happening in Japan (my 1983 Yamaha bb3000s is another masterpiece Japanese build) and kept Fender from going completely belly up. We all owe Dan big time!

American made instruments always have a lot of hype behind them, but honestly I think Japanese made instruments have the highest quality standards out there.

Every "Made in Japan" bass I've owned has been fantastic and costs less than its US counterpart.

 

[wyleeboxer]

American made instruments always have a lot of hype behind them, but honestly I think Japanese made instruments have the highest quality standards out there.

Every "Made in Japan" bass I've owned has been fantastic and costs less than its US counterpart.

Ditto for me, I bought in 1983 a new Fender JP or Jazz bass special MIJ, sold it to a friend over 20 years ago. He still has it, plays it out all the time and never has done a thing to it but change the strings. MIJ set the standard for how to DO production build in the 70's and obviously not just guitars.

 

[bass71]

I had until recently a heavyish 71 sunburst P. It had a lovely feel about it.....hard to explain. I do think those base ball bat necks add something to the feel and tone of the early 70's P's.

 

[JIO]

American made instruments always have a lot of hype behind them, but honestly I think Japanese made instruments have the highest quality standards out there.

Every "Made in Japan" bass I've owned has been fantastic and costs less than its US counterpart.

The Japanese made thousands of rough and ready entry-level guitars/basses in the 60's and by the mid-late 70's they were making the 'law suite' copies (as mentioned in the Dan Smith article referring to Tokai etc) which lead to the high quality you speak of. They have probably made more product than Fender and Gibson put together.

 

[alaskaleftybass]

The article is a great read. This isn't really a post about whether you think your 70's Fender bass is good or not, it's about manufacturing and how finance/marketing people that are completely disconnected from the product/customers can screw up a company. Glad Fender got rescued then but I think FMIC is heading down the same road today.

Fender has a history of brilliance then hit-and-miss. Lately they've been producing some pretty good amplifiers. A lot of love for them here on TB. But I liken Fender to Microsoft or Apple-- it's so huge, it's like a behemoth that doesn't know what all it's parts are doing at the same time. It's hard to build everything great when you're concerned with selling everything from picks to amps to mic's to basses, to guitars......

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Fender has a history of brilliance then hit-and-miss. Lately they've been producing some pretty good amplifiers. A lot of love for them here on TB. But I liken Fender to Microsoft or Apple-- it's so huge, it's like a behemoth that doesn't know what all it's parts are doing at the same time. It's hard to build everything great when you're concerned with selling everything from picks to amps to mic's to basses, to guitars......

My son has a Rumble 30 he uses for college Jazz band, that little amp is plenty loud for small auditorium or church gigs, nice feature set, and it sounds great! The current MIA line of basses is pretty nice, overpriced IMHO, but that's what the market will bear. You have to ask yourself if they are really worth 1/3 more than than an MIM or three times a Squire, but Despite all their highs and lows, they still have a rabid multi-generational fan base, as you will find out pretty quick on TB if you trash them! Personally never had any interest in P-Basses, but I do like me a bound and blocked Jazz, still one of the more comfortable basses out there if you can find one that doesn't neck dive.

 

[sawzalot]

Over the past few years "70s winding" and "70s positioning" for jazz pickups have been trendy, but I've never liked either. Standard 60s winding and positioning has always sounded much better to my ears.

When I was looking at replacement pickups for my bass the guy at bestbassgear.com said 70's wind pickups were their #1 returned item. Said the pickup design was really a product of the finance department at Fender at the time and they required a lot of signal processing to make them sound good. I thought that was interesting--but they do sound really good with the right signal processing....

 

[chadds]

This thread isn't "your '70s Fender sucks." It's about that something other than pride of craftsmanship was going on at Fender then.

 

[NoFiller]

I do not understand why 70s Fenders are now fetching $2400+ for standard Ps & Js. For that sort of dough, there are so many better Fender basses to buy ex. 80s Fillerton AVRIs...

 

[Axstar]

I find it humorous that the 70's Fenders are now considered desirable, but maybe all that's left are the good ones.

Dan Smith wagers the same in the article. Counter to that, I reckon there is an argument for imagining that the good '70s Fenders were played to death and modded with period features (Dimarzios, Alembic Stratoblasters, Badass bridges, brass hardware etc). The bad '70s Fenders were played twice then holed up under the bed or in the back of the closet. These ones are factory fresh!

 

[chadds]

Dan Smith wagers the same in the article. Counter to that, I reckon there is an argument for imagining that the good '70s Fenders were played to death and modded with period features (Dimarzios, Alembic Stratoblasters, Badass bridges, brass hardware etc). The bad '70s Fenders were played twice then holed up under the bed or in the back of the closet. These ones are factory fresh!

This appears to be true. Played twice shoved under bed. Minty fresh, poor musical instrument.

 

[Plain Old Barry]

Dan Smith wagers the same in the article. Counter to that, I reckon there is an argument for imagining that the good '70s Fenders were played to death and modded with period features (Dimarzios, Alembic Stratoblasters, Badass bridges, brass hardware etc). The bad '70s Fenders were played twice then holed up under the bed or in the back of the closet. These ones are factory fresh!

Oddly enough, this absolutely holds true for many woodworking hand tools, like planes and chisels. Quite often, 80-100 year old metal hand planes that appear nearly factory fresh have major manufacturing issues that made them poor performers, so they often got put back in the box and shelved. Many of the best examples have obvious signs of heavy use, replaced parts, several owner's ID marks, but have been well maintained for decades. With chisels, the perfect examples often don't hold an edge, so they never got used.

I have a tobacco burst '79 P that I bought new that I've loved since day one. Back then, we tried instruments before we bought them, there wasn't much mail order of actual instruments. Many players also sought out natural, sunburst, or transparent colored finishes, as the body was often more select wood. My '79 has had several pickups, metal and plastic pickguards, different bridges... and it's still a great instrument.

I also had a black '82 P that I only kept a year or so, never modded, and was replaced by a black Yamaha that I simply fell in love with after trying it.

 

[SwitchGear]

I don't think that it was just Fender. The 70's was a very low point in overall manufacturing in the USA. Just look at the auto industry during that time to get a sense of it. Pretty much everything being made was crap.

True. Remember what AMF did with Harley Davidson motorcycles in the seventies. Quantity over quality. Same thing happened with General Motors during that time. Way to much variability in manufacturing processes.

 

[chris_b]

I don't know anyone who would put a Fender "under the bed" in the 70's. They were far too expensive.

IME it was the crap ones that got modded.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I disliked the heavy weight, thick & icky poly finishes that were done poorly,and the shoddy craftsmanship all around.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I knew when I posted that title it would end up like this, but otherwise you guys wouldn't have clicked on it. Let's face it, there are two types of people in the world, the lucky ones who own one of the great 70s Fenders that slipped through factory QC and those who got all of the other ones



How about Ampeg having to hire outside companies to build their Baby Bass and B15 reissues

I've come across a bunch of nice ones over the years, Brian... starting in the late seventies. Way more nice ones than ones with what I'd consider real problems. Had two 78's up until around a month ago when I decided to let one go. These were normal for me, though I'd probably sell the last one if the neck bowed

Bone stock, no mods, no neck movement, killer sound and playability.


I have come across the typical bass that someone screwed up modding. That wasn't Fender's fault.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Marketing - when the supply of reasonably priced pre-CBS Fenders ran dry, Fender began hawking the 70s as vintage.

Fender did that? I don't remember that.

Yes, but if you read about what it was like in the 70s, there was no comparison. Those of us who were playing in the 70s and 80s remember - you almost could not give one away.

Don't remember that either

I do not understand why 70s Fenders are now fetching $2400+ for standard Ps & Js. For that sort of dough, there are so many better Fender basses to buy ex. 80s Fillerton AVRIs...

They're collectible. That's why.

 

[M.R. Ogle]

I was around in the 70's, and I recalled the older players had already developed a vocal distaste for the new Fenders being offered at that time. One friend of mine bought a brand new 1975 Strat, sunburst, that didn't play (or sound) particularly good, though I'd love to have a shot at setting it up NOW, lol.
As for the "good ones got played, bad ones went under the bed" scenario, I don't think that's the entire truth. The ones that players NEEDED to play got played, and many got modified... just because it was the beginning of readily available replacement parts, pickups, bridges, etc, to make them "better." But not necessarily effective.
And... I know of a few Fenders that went "under the bed" when the owners went to 'Nam... or died... or moved out of state. Most people aren't that well-versed to make that quick call that this particular instrument was a dog, or not. If they needed to play, they paid a lot of money for 'em... so they played 'em. Maybe they modded them along the way. But an "under the bed" instrument probably got put there due to a life situation change, more likely than a condemnation of it's quality.
Anyone got tennis rackets in the back of the closet? Are they there because they're LOUSY tennis rackets? Or because you simply no longer play tennis?