Why 70s Fenders Sucked

[walkbassman45]

Like I have said, the only people that would care about a sucky 70's Fender is the person that bought one.Don't buy one. Simple.

 

[italoro]

I refurbished a 1979 P Bass, and i can tell you that the neck pocket was super loose, this is a sign of very poor quality control and bad tooling adjustment, the neck is a bit warpped to one side, but this may be because this bass was in a tropical climate. But after some work, plays great and sounds great.

 

[NOLA bass55]

I had a 78 precision that was excellent.

 

[bigcam]

Here's a great interview with Dan Smith who was hired away from Yamaha by Fender to turn the company around in the 80s. Fascinating reading where Smith describes all the reasons that 70s Fenders deservedly got their reputation for being lousy, why they went to Japan, how Fender was almost liquidated by CBS and more cool stuff.

No tort or flatwounds mentioned.

 

[TJL]

Let's get real here and talk about the true issue. Fender, until just a few years ago, was inconsistent as heck. I say "until a few years ago" because as of around 2012, they completely retooled, got rid of the ancient jigs etc. that produced the neck issues and problems since the 50's, and developed much better production methods. Since day one, there were good ones and not so good ones. That is partially the nature of instrument building in general. It is hard to control what a piece of wood will sound like or warp like over time. That can be controlled much better when woods are carefully chosen and dried and aged correctly. Still, there are no guarantees, and in a high volume production situation, those bad ones will still go out the door to be sold.
I have had hundreds of vintage Fenders in my hands over the past 40 years, and there are plenty of pre CBS dogs out there. Here are just two examples of why you can't make a blanket statement about Fender quality:
I had a '64 P Bass that never played well. The action sucked, and the truss rod was virtually ineffective. Not until I drove over it with my pickup truck did the neck straighten out, but even then, it had poor balance and volume from string to string. Dead spots were always there in that neck, and it was heavy. Certainly not Leo's finest work.
Now, does anyone out there deny that Marcus Miller's 70's Jazz bass is one fine sounding bass? The best Fender bass I ever owned was a cream colored 1975, and to this day I truly regret having sold it to fund buying my first Alembic.
Maybe the lower production of the Pre CBS basses lead to there being a higher percentage of "good" instruments, but to say 70's basses suck is to deny the fact that some of the best music ever recorded was produced with those same instruments. That dovetails into my other thought that it is more about the fool than the tool. A great player can make anything sound good.

 

[jetgraphics]

QC is the most important thing.
Building an occasionally good instrument is no way to run mass production.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

I was in a guitar store yesterday, having read through the posts here, I made a point of looking at an MIA P and J. The fit and finish were excellent, nice quality hardware and electronics (at least what was visible), tight neck pockets, nice fretwork, etc. In short, a lot nicer than most "vintage" basses I've played. The interesting thing was that nearly all of that could also be said of the Squire CV and VM basses they had at 1/4-1/2 the price! I do like the rolled fingerboard edges on the MIA, nicer wood on the burst finishes, etc., but you have to ask yourself if the price difference is really warranted...just sayin! I could care less about name brand status, for a painted bass, I'd be hard pressed to justify the extra coin.

 

[Brad Johnson]

You miss my point. No, Fender did not start the price spike for 70s Fenders - that was the dealers in used "collectible" instruments. But they certainly have made lots of money on the craze, and have continued the marketing by putting out these re-issues of what were primarily poor instruments.

Maybe I did. Then again...

maybe you missed mine.

 

[JIO]

I was in a guitar store yesterday, having read through the posts here, I made a point of looking at an MIA P and J. The fit and finish were excellent, nice quality hardware and electronics (at least what was visible), tight neck pockets, nice fretwork, etc. In short, a lot nicer than most "vintage" basses I've played. The interesting thing was that nearly all of that could also be said of the Squire CV and VM basses they had at 1/4-1/2 the price! I do like the rolled fingerboard edges on the MIA, nicer wood on the burst finishes, etc., but you have to ask yourself if the price difference is really warranted...just sayin! I could care less about name brand status, for a painted bass, I'd be hard pressed to justify the extra coin.

I agree - one either needs a car, any car, that works and is reliable, or one spends more and more to get this or that above and beyond basic transportation. A Squier CV/VM will get the job done and if one has the ways and means for more - knock yourself out.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I did and agree with him - it's not like the bad ones (then or ever) became bad after buying them.

Really? Things do happen after instruments are built.

 

[MtManiac]

...because as of around 2012, they completely retooled...

2008 for MIA Fenders (the new American Standards, I owned one, bought it because of the hype, and the hype was earned), maybe 2006 for MIM (when the Classic 50s was introduced, maybe the Modern Players), and maybe 2007 for Squiers (when the Vintage Modifieds were introduced). All around that time, anyway, and I remember it really started with the Classic 50s and then the Squier VMs. I don't really know much about the Modern Players at the time - the Big Block P and the Jazz with two P pickups - they were generally unpopular because they were such a departure from traditional Fender models, but I don't recall anyone saying they stunk.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I agree - one either needs a car, any car, that works and is reliable, or one spends more and more to get this or that above and beyond basic transportation. A Squier CV/VM will get the job done and if one has the ways and means for more - knock yourself out.

There are reasons beyond status to buy above a certain level. In fact in many cases with what some deem status purchases, only a handful of folks might even know what they're looking at.


I own lots of higher end basses that most people wouldn't recognize. I didn't buy them to be recognized so that all works out.

 

[downriverdave]

I have owned and still own 70's Fender guitars. People that say they are all crap are idiots. I am sure there are bad ones but I personally never saw them and was an avid player back in the 70's. It was all Fender and Gibson ruling the roost and in my opinion making some of the best music ever on these crap guitars! hahah.

Funny but when these guitars were new you would be comparing them to used 50's and 60's guitars in the shops. After all those were just a used 10-15 year old instrument and considered nothing special at the time, and they weren't.

So 97% good according to the article. Bummer if you got one of those 3% but hey, pretty silly to harp on about them "all being bad". Most people I hear beating the tired drum never owned one and just parrot BS they hear or read like a foam fingered sports fan.

Also worth mentioning to those not alive or coherent at the time, Ford then Carter? most US companies were in the crapper at the time and doing anything to stay alive.

 

[bigcam]

Okay. Time to weight in. My first two bass', '59 Jazz and '63 P to help put this into prospective. I was very content with both rigs for a very long time. In the mid 70's (post CBS) I wanted to update the Jazz. There were a lot of cool colors, etc, however every new bass I picked up just didn't feel right. That included Fender. I was also experiencing similar pain with the Fender Amps. In fact I was feeling abandoned by Fender and all the most popular brands of the day. My search ended with the purchase of a used USA custom shop one off Jazz. Believe it was a '75.
Since then I have only owned USA Custom Shop Fenders and Ernie Balls. Concussion... if you want real quality, with the right tone and sound right out of the case, your going to have to pay for it.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Indeed, they are that. But so they are on the 50s and 60s reissues as well. But IMO it is the vintage dealers who upped the "collectibility" of 70s Fenders when the stream of 50s and 60s Fenders was near drying up. They had to generate inventory from someplace.

At some point 70's Fenders were going to get older and more scarce. Vintage dealers didn't do that, time did. That doesn't mean that everything that gets older and/or more scarce will do the same.

IMO after the 70's Fender came up with a winner around 1996-97 with the Jazz Deluxe and Standards. And their value has gone up, which many said wouldn't happen. People say a lot of stuff that I largely ignore.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I wasn't playing in the 70s, but I was in the 80s, and in 1985 a good Fender made in the US was not to be found. I wanted to sound and look like Steve Harris, and the best I could do was Duff effing McKagan.

I played a Peavey instead. If I could have had a S7 or an S8 I would have jumped at it, let alone a '74 with the badass TV logo.

I bought one of my S8 Jazzes back then used for $500. From a pawnshop. Still have it.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Let's face it, the 70's was a low-point for all kinds of American manufacturing. Anybody remember the 70's Camaros, what a piece of crap! My Dad's second wife had an AMC Pacer, among the worst production cars ever built, I eventually owned it (briefly) as a hand-me down, a nightmare of shoddy unreliability. During the same era the Japanese were building the Datsun 240 and 280Z, a car I'd still love to own, but in terms of overall quality and reliability, none of it compares to current production cars. One thing that didn't get better is home appliances, we had the same refrigerator my entire childhood, a 60's Coldspot that would not die, now I'm lucky to get 5 years out of something at 4 times the price. This concludes my Old Fart rant.

 

[Michael Jewels]

I can only tell you about my 70s Precision bass, and it was not good.

It was a 1975 which I bought in 1976.

It was natural with a fretted maple neck, not a maple fingerboard.

Within a year, the neck began to twist at the G string side towards the E string.

The finish, which was natural, began turning grass green in three spots: At the tummy cut, at the upper horn strap button, and opposite the volume control on the back. A friend of mine, who didn't know guitars, but who did some furniture woodworking said that the wood wasn't properly sealed.

It also had a very sterile tone, no warmth at all. It was as though whatever amp you played it through had the bass control turned way down.

And I had a friend with a 1965 Pre-CBS Precision to compare it to. What a disappointment for a kid!

Is anyone crying for me?

This bad experience is what made me sell it after about two years, and then I was open to buying anything other than a Fender. After I sold the Precision, I bought, a BC Rich Mockingbird, an Ovation Magnum 1, and then an Ibanez Musician which I still have.

After this, I didn't buy another Fender until the year 2000, when I bought a MIM fretless Jazz bass, which was an all-around good bass.

True story.

Mike

 

[MtManiac]

I bought one of my S8 Jazzes back then used for $500. From a pawnshop. Still have it.

$500 in 1985 would have bought a pretty nice bass! I think my Peavey was about $250 or so.

 

[Stan Haldane]

I have a '71 Precision I've had since 1980. I think it plays great. I've never owned another P. Maybe ignorance is bliss in my case.

I have a 75 Fender Precision that plays beautifully. I have lowered the action and it's so easy to play. Rotosounds and a 500 Rumble give me the sound that I want. Looks so good too. I've had it at least 30 years.