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I wasn't playing in the 70s, but I was in the 80s, and in 1985 a good Fender made in the US was not to be found. I wanted to sound and look like Steve Harris, and the best I could do was Duff effing McKagan.
I played a Peavey instead. If I could have had a S7 or an S8 I would have jumped at it, let alone a '74 with the badass TV logo.
- Jun 30, 2010
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- musician/artist/owner - Gildaxe
I was playing my '63, and then '64 T-birds in the 70's. I started out playing mostly Gibson's and saw a guy playing a Fender Tele bass then and went to a guitar store to play one. Wasn't keen on the thick neck and thick slab body (compared to my T-bird) so didn't buy it. Became a Fender player in '06 when I bought my first new bass in years. ('51 P RI) - but on topic, I (recently) nearly bought a '77 J that was really sweet - so as many peeps have posted, there were good ones too. (just didn't need another J)
I have seen it all in regards to Fenders of any era: dogs and angels. My 72 Jazz is great, my 78 Strat is not awesome, but sentimental (my first 'real' guitar). I had a 76 P that was really heavy, but played great and sounded like a P. My 69 Strat is waaaay above average. My friend/bandmate's 76 P is so killer that I wish he passed on it, because then I was going to get it (he had first right of refusal on it).
The flip side was that they also came out with the original Elite Series at this time, which were closer to $800 for a regular one or closer to $1000 for gold and/or walnut appointments. These were pretty deluxe in comparison to a traditional, pre 83 Strat build for about the same $$. That original Elite Strat is my favorite production model Strat. These 83/84 Strats were hit and miss (I have owned around 6 Standards and 4 Elites over the years) but this is when they introduced the flatter radius and medium jumbo frets. This is where they became more modern and faster playing. I had two Elite Strats and two Standard Strats that were killer. I sold all but one favorite Elite during a downsizing of the collection in the late 90s.
For what it's worth, during the early to mid 80s, for the same price as an 82 Strat or non gold/non walnut Elite, you could get a 57 or 62 Reissue if a traditional Strat was your thing.
This is key. The setup of the instruments. I learned to tweak my instruments as a young player in the 80s because of living in a very small town with no techs and Dan Erlewine's column in Guitar Player. It gave me enough info and confidence to try these mysterious adjustments, especially to the truss rod. The truss rod adjustments alone is a deal maker. This opened up the flood gates for me and my friends, we were able to start making our own adjustments and have much better playing instruments.I smiled at the bowed necks comment earlier in the thread because it highlighted a huge issue that may not be as prevalent now as it was in the seventies: setup, while clearly not permanent, was a huge issue for most bassists because we didn't know what the hell we were doing when it came to it. Trussrods were an absolute mystery... you turned them in one of three directions in small increments, put the bass in the living room near a mayonnaise jar and left it for a day (or two?) and checked it for some sort of movement. Lather, rinse, repeat. If you had the stones to actually try it you might break your bass.
I took my 68 Jazz to a tech in the 80's, the first and only time I did it. I wanted my action lower. A week later, the bass was done... and the action was higher. Because he said that was factory spec. I really started to dig into Guitar Player magazine, read Dan Erlewine columns and educated myself on how my instrument works and it really paid off. Suddenly basses that "sucked" didn't. And the basses didn't change.
It is the rare exception that I find an older Fender Jazz that has actual real issues that aren't easily addressed. I actually like doing a full setup and bringing one up to snuff. No, I couldn't care less about a neck gap, the necks I've dealt with don't move and I've yet to hear a gap. I had no problem with the finishes which were far more durable than earlier stuff. I can play heavier basses so that's another non-issue. One man's trash...
I agree on the 80's basses, when IIRC Fender was trying different stuff like putting the Kubicki package in Jazz basses. I don't really remember build quality issues, just didn't care for the straying from what killed in the 70's. A lot of people are extremely happy with 70's Jazzes including myself.
That was a deliberate move to make a more affordable US made Strat by the process of elimination. A 82 Strat was about $800. You do one less rout (and wiring hole to that rout) on the front for the jack, one less pot, knob and a couple solder joints inside and no routing done on the back for the new trem. That's a lot of extra stuff that saved a lot of time and $$ from the pre 83 Strat build and price. I remember these 83/84 Strats being about $500, which was about $300 less than what the 82 sold for new.
The flip side was that they also came out with the original Elite Series at this time, which were closer to $800 for a regular one or closer to $1000 for gold and/or walnut appointments. These were pretty deluxe in comparison to a traditional, pre 83 Strat build for about the same $$. That original Elite Strat is my favorite production model Strat. These 83/84 Strats were hit and miss (I have owned around 6 Standards and 4 Elites over the years) but this is when they introduced the flatter radius and medium jumbo frets. This is where they became more modern and faster playing. I had two Elite Strats and two Standard Strats that were killer. I sold all but one favorite Elite during a downsizing of the collection in the late 90s.
For what it's worth, during the early to mid 80s, for the same price as an 82 Strat or non gold/non walnut Elite, you could get a 57 or 62 Reissue if a traditional Strat was your thing.
But '83 was before the age of accurate strat copies. Hondo, Aria, Cort, etc made strat shaped guitars but none of them had a football jack. So, in 1983 if I wanted to buy a strat, why would I spend extra for a Fender if it didn't have the one thing that made it different than a knockoff? In fact, Fender came out with the lower priced Bullet at the same time that looked almost identical
That makes sense. If someone who's gonna keep playing gets a bad Fender, they're gonna sell it to get something else. Not stick it under the bed and swallow the loss.
My own experience with 70's Fenders was a '72 Tele that I bought new. It played fine for my purposes, but has to have been the heaviest guitar of any type I've ever played. I ended up trading it in on a used '73 Strat. Again, it was fine for my needs, but nothing special. After a few years I traded it in on a nice acoustic since my musical journey was headed away from playing electrics. I wasn't rich, so no way that Strat was going in the closet.
Nope; not Fender. It is/was the vintage dealers. Fender isn't making a cent off their 70s product.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
It's almost eerie that this explains my personal history from back then:
I started playing bass back in the 70's. At the time, OF COURSE all I heard was 'gotta have a Fender, gotta have a Fender'. Bear in mind, I was a complete dweeb beginner, but the several I picked up to try in local music stores had the huge, fat necks, somehow they just felt wrong to me. Especially after I tried a friend's 60's Jazz, which felt like it came from a different planet: Much flatter neck profile, lighter weight, just totally different than what was for sale in my time. I've since come to realize that it's far too big a generalization to say that all 70's Fenders were bad, but all the ones I could get hold of were just wrong.
So after a detour through a Ripper and an RD Artist, I started playing BB Yamahas and they were a revelation. A curious blend of Fender and neckthru , they just worked, sounded great, and the construction was first rate.
So I was stunned to find out that most of the Yamaha crew had gone to Fender (!), but thought to myself that if ANYONE could straighten them out, they would. They did.
For me, the proof that they were turning the ship back to the right course? Those fabulous Squier Jazz and Precision re-issues from the early 80's. $189 list, and they were spot-on, perfect reissues, MIJ. Find a good one on Reverb or EBay today, and they're changing hands for over 500 bucks. I had one, and then, I FINALLY 'got' what Fenders were about.
I started playing bass back in the 70's. At the time, OF COURSE all I heard was 'gotta have a Fender, gotta have a Fender'. Bear in mind, I was a complete dweeb beginner, but the several I picked up to try in local music stores had the huge, fat necks, somehow they just felt wrong to me. Especially after I tried a friend's 60's Jazz, which felt like it came from a different planet: Much flatter neck profile, lighter weight, just totally different than what was for sale in my time. I've since come to realize that it's far too big a generalization to say that all 70's Fenders were bad, but all the ones I could get hold of were just wrong.
So after a detour through a Ripper and an RD Artist, I started playing BB Yamahas and they were a revelation. A curious blend of Fender and neckthru , they just worked, sounded great, and the construction was first rate.
So I was stunned to find out that most of the Yamaha crew had gone to Fender (!), but thought to myself that if ANYONE could straighten them out, they would. They did.
For me, the proof that they were turning the ship back to the right course? Those fabulous Squier Jazz and Precision re-issues from the early 80's. $189 list, and they were spot-on, perfect reissues, MIJ. Find a good one on Reverb or EBay today, and they're changing hands for over 500 bucks. I had one, and then, I FINALLY 'got' what Fenders were about.
Those reissues didn't drive prices of older instruments up. Demand did... which also drove the demand for lower priced reissues.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
You miss my point. No, Fender did not start the price spike for 70s Fenders - that was the dealers in used "collectible" instruments. But they certainly have made lots of money on the craze, and have continued the marketing by putting out these re-issues of what were primarily poor instruments.
My only experience with Fender was in the late 70's and early 80's as a kid learning to play. We tried them in the shops, a few friends had them. For me at the time they could not hold a candle to the Gibson's, Ibanez and Yamaha of the day. I wrote them off for years. Then I played a Japanese Strat of a friend of mine a few years ago and was blown away by it. I am now looking at PBasses and locally there is a 77 and a 95 for sale. I prefer the 95. The Fender basses of the last 10 years are very good from the ones I have tried as well.
Indeed, they are that. But so they are on the 50s and 60s reissues as well. But IMO it is the vintage dealers who upped the "collectibility" of 70s Fenders when the stream of 50s and 60s Fenders was near drying up. They had to generate inventory from someplace.
Which only proves that nothing is beyond redemption.
I have a friend who owns a 1969 all-OEM, unmodified Fender Jazz that he entrusted to me to shape up for him, since he isn't a full-time bass player. He bought it for next to nothing at a police auction many, many years ago. This bass is worth insane money these days, in almost any condition. This bass has the most raggedy neck pocket I ever saw on a front-line bass. It's amazing to me that it got anywhere near the factory door. Personally, I wouldn't pay a nickel for it as anything but a part-out. Lesson: Ya gotta have some sense of how to look at these things.
I was just going to read the comments, but what the hay it's another " some Fender's suck " post so "why not".
If you don't want a sucky Fender then don't buy one. Problem solved.
I was smart enough to listen to my bass teacher in 1975 when buying a new Fender Precision and guess what, it was a great bass with a great setup. I have always played a Fender and never had a bad one. Why? Because I learned from others, took their advice and bought what I knew were good basses.
If you buy a sucky Fender then it's your fault so to all these "certain Fender's suck" post's, who cares, if you knew what you were buying in the first place, it wouldn't matter. All of my Fender's are great players.
If you don't want a sucky Fender then don't buy one. Problem solved.
I was smart enough to listen to my bass teacher in 1975 when buying a new Fender Precision and guess what, it was a great bass with a great setup. I have always played a Fender and never had a bad one. Why? Because I learned from others, took their advice and bought what I knew were good basses.
If you buy a sucky Fender then it's your fault so to all these "certain Fender's suck" post's, who cares, if you knew what you were buying in the first place, it wouldn't matter. All of my Fender's are great players.
- Jun 30, 2010
- 49,627
- 222,205
- Disclosures
- musician/artist/owner - Gildaxe
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
- Jun 30, 2010
- 49,627
- 222,205
- Disclosures
- musician/artist/owner - Gildaxe
I did and agree with him - it's not like the bad ones (then or ever) became bad after buying them.
