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Why all the fuss over James Jamerson
- Thread starter PaulMacCnj
- Start date
Probably because Babbit wasn't drunk during the recordings.
I'm kidding.....unwad those panties.........
pacojas said:
Pacojas...Are you familiar with Chakka Kahns version of WGO for the film "Standing In The Shadows Of Motown"? It won a Grammy for Best Traditional R&B song back in about 2004. BTW, The Funk Brothers received the Grammy for that song as well (Babbitt on bass of course) along with a Grammy for Best Original Soundtrack for the same film. Two Grammys plus the Lifetime Achievement Award the were honored with a couple of years later.
Hey man, you don't know that for sure! For all we know, he could have had a couple before his sessions.
All the quotes below are exactly what I am talking about when I say that if anyone says anything against, or not in praise of, James Jamerson then they are wrong. The person is ignorant, stupid, uneducated, immature, or just plan and inarguably wrong.
There have been originals since the first person who drew back a bow string. Jamersons’ lines are no more complex than anything Zappa or Hamm have written. They are no more soulful than what Kaye played. He wasn’t ever particularly novel in comparison to his contemporaries.
All you old timers who look back through the scope of nostalgia should become more objective when saying that Jamerson was so great. Just like when you say Edison was so wonderful, you forget about Tesla. Just because someone is the “first” (quotes because he wasn’t, bass wasn’t invented in the 1950’s) does not mean they were particularly good.
Just because the Model T was the “first” car, does that mean it is better than a Toyota Corolla? Just because the Fender P-Bass was the “first” does that mean it is better than a Pedulla Rapture.
It’s cool if you like the guy. It’s cool if you think he is the source from which all skill and inspiration floweth. But good god, just because someone disagrees with you it does not mean that person is a fool.
You can tell me all day everyday that Cliff Burton was an incompetent poser. You can lambast me for thinking Nick Schendzielos is a damn wizard. You can look at me condescendingly because I do now, and always will, think Jaco could play soulful and skillful circles around Jamerson. That’s fine, you don’t like these guys whatever, I’m not going to call you a fool for not conforming to what I think a bass player should think like.
“You must be GREAT...I'll put you on DDD's 100 greatest list...right between Jamerson and Entwisle LOL”
“I was expecting this to be a troll thread via the title lol. Man he sure was a beast! One of my all time favorite basslines right there.”
“I suspect you are underestimating the harmonic depth of his parts. Surely the average Berklee graduate could pull them apart quickly, but they don't yield quickly to mere mortals.
Besides, he did it 40 years ago, before anybody else did exactly what he was doing. Pop music bass was much less sophisticated, and while jazz (and the jazzy side of pop) utilized some of the concepts, the way he put them together was fairly unique, to me as a young person.
So it's a little like saying "I don't get all the fuss over Thomas Edison. I can go to walMart and find thousands of light bulbs."”
“i always wonder the age of people that say they dont get whats so great about jamerson. a lot times the younger players just dont get the history of it. after jamerson you had everybody grooving like that, or trying to at least. people that dont know the timeline in the history of it all just dont realize there was NO ONE and nothing like that before jamerson.”
“Very profound. People sometimes fail to appreciate the context that the older artists worked in. Quite simply, music like Motown never existed until Motown, and Jamerson was at the forefront of making it happen. It's really easy to be a Monday morning quarterback. People don't have to like Motown music, but respect is most definitely due.”
“Why all the fuss? Because he was the originator, and still the best.
He "wrote" these parts on the fly, often drunk off his a$$, laid them down in a single take, and never forget them. Us mere mortals have to struggle to do any one of these things, and generally never get them all together.”
There have been originals since the first person who drew back a bow string. Jamersons’ lines are no more complex than anything Zappa or Hamm have written. They are no more soulful than what Kaye played. He wasn’t ever particularly novel in comparison to his contemporaries.
All you old timers who look back through the scope of nostalgia should become more objective when saying that Jamerson was so great. Just like when you say Edison was so wonderful, you forget about Tesla. Just because someone is the “first” (quotes because he wasn’t, bass wasn’t invented in the 1950’s) does not mean they were particularly good.
Just because the Model T was the “first” car, does that mean it is better than a Toyota Corolla? Just because the Fender P-Bass was the “first” does that mean it is better than a Pedulla Rapture.
It’s cool if you like the guy. It’s cool if you think he is the source from which all skill and inspiration floweth. But good god, just because someone disagrees with you it does not mean that person is a fool.
You can tell me all day everyday that Cliff Burton was an incompetent poser. You can lambast me for thinking Nick Schendzielos is a damn wizard. You can look at me condescendingly because I do now, and always will, think Jaco could play soulful and skillful circles around Jamerson. That’s fine, you don’t like these guys whatever, I’m not going to call you a fool for not conforming to what I think a bass player should think like.
“You must be GREAT...I'll put you on DDD's 100 greatest list...right between Jamerson and Entwisle LOL”
“I was expecting this to be a troll thread via the title lol. Man he sure was a beast! One of my all time favorite basslines right there.”
“I suspect you are underestimating the harmonic depth of his parts. Surely the average Berklee graduate could pull them apart quickly, but they don't yield quickly to mere mortals.
Besides, he did it 40 years ago, before anybody else did exactly what he was doing. Pop music bass was much less sophisticated, and while jazz (and the jazzy side of pop) utilized some of the concepts, the way he put them together was fairly unique, to me as a young person.
So it's a little like saying "I don't get all the fuss over Thomas Edison. I can go to walMart and find thousands of light bulbs."”
“i always wonder the age of people that say they dont get whats so great about jamerson. a lot times the younger players just dont get the history of it. after jamerson you had everybody grooving like that, or trying to at least. people that dont know the timeline in the history of it all just dont realize there was NO ONE and nothing like that before jamerson.”
“Very profound. People sometimes fail to appreciate the context that the older artists worked in. Quite simply, music like Motown never existed until Motown, and Jamerson was at the forefront of making it happen. It's really easy to be a Monday morning quarterback. People don't have to like Motown music, but respect is most definitely due.”
“Why all the fuss? Because he was the originator, and still the best.
He "wrote" these parts on the fly, often drunk off his a$$, laid them down in a single take, and never forget them. Us mere mortals have to struggle to do any one of these things, and generally never get them all together.”
I thought of WGO as pretty much untouchable, just let it be the best it ever could be. I dug the Weather Report version but only because it was a bit different and cool. Then I heard Chaka do it. The way she phrases it is soooo damn slippery and funky. I've sang the tune (while attempting to play a fraction of the groove) 100's of times so I'm quite intimate with the melody, and to hear her take on it just blows me away. She already held the trophy for funkiest diva IMO and that cemented it.
Back to JJ....It seemed like he was always conversational. You know what the premise of the line is but he rarely repeated himself, always dancing around the line. And to my ear it never sounds unfocused, albeit constantly changing.
The guy was plugged in higher up the circuit.
Hey man, you don't know that for sure! For all we know, he could have had a couple before his sessions.
and this, is just the statement that forces my continued research so that I may one day become a time traveling fly.
Oh, that's nothing. 
Try this one:
‪Stevie Wonder - I Was Made To Love Her‬‏ - YouTube
Try this one:‪Stevie Wonder - I Was Made To Love Her‬‏ - YouTube
Oh, that's nothing.
‪Stevie Wonder - I Was Made To Love Her‬‏ - YouTube
Good God, that just makes me happy! What a joy to hear.
Not entirely true (not entirely false, either). Granted, the electric bass guitar was invented by Paul Tutmarc in 1935, but it was not widely used (and was actually almost completely unknown) until Leo Fender created the Precision Bass in 1951. Even more than that, the sound wasn't popularized until LaBella created their Deep Talkin' flats in 1954. So, while there are some bass lines prior to the 1950's, Jamerson still invented the modern electric bass line, and defined what a bass groove should be.
It's funny, though, that while almost every great bassist considers Jamerson the best, you think he sucked. But we should listen to a nobody instead of these legendary bassists...
Listening to this Marvin Gaye example, I noticed right away that this playing style was also on "For Once In My Life" by Stevie Wonder.
I had to play "For Once In My Life" with a 70's cover band a few months ago and I was so freaked out by the bass line.. Aside from technical aspects (timing, harmony, melody) I just found it very "special". Up until today, I never knew it was THE Jamerson.
Of course I ended up NOT playing exactly the same bass line, but it totally inspired me and I loved how it sounded in the end and how much fun I had playing that song.
I had to play "For Once In My Life" with a 70's cover band a few months ago and I was so freaked out by the bass line.. Aside from technical aspects (timing, harmony, melody) I just found it very "special". Up until today, I never knew it was THE Jamerson.
Of course I ended up NOT playing exactly the same bass line, but it totally inspired me and I loved how it sounded in the end and how much fun I had playing that song.
Carol Kaye stole nothing from Jamerson. True, she's tried to claim credit for a few basslines that Jamerson did, but she has plenty of legit credits on her own to be a proven heavyweight studio legend without even invoking the name Motown. And a lot of folks don't know this, but she even tried to help Jamerson get into non-Motown studio work when they moved to LA. It's unfortunate that she got entangled in this controversy, but the idea that she stole her soul from Jamerson is a creation of latter day Jamerson fans.
BTW, icycyle, nice rant. Don't have any idea what you're trying to say, but it was entertaining.
I have never come close to doing that bass line any justice. Someday I will, but it is like a Mount Everest to me. Truly amazing.
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