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Why all the fuss over James Jamerson

#61
SoCal1 said:
Pacojas...Are you familiar with Chakka Kahns version of WGO for the film "Standing In The Shadows Of Motown"? It won a Grammy for Best Traditional R&B song back in about 2004. BTW, The Funk Brothers received the Grammy for that song as well (Babbitt on bass of course) along with a Grammy for Best Original Soundtrack for the same film. Two Grammys plus the Lifetime Achievement Award the were honored with a couple of years later.
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SoCal1,...

thank you for the reminder!!!

Chaka's cover is so worthy of praise. she is another favorite of mine. :)
 
#62
There is an old saying...to be considered a legend, you either have to be the best or you have to be first. Jamerson was first. Nobody ever played like that before him. The jazz players who took up electric before he did pretty much mimicked what they did on upright. The pop and rock bass players before him did the basic "fill the bottom and get out of the way" playing. Jamerson was first. Sure, better bass players came along afterward, but none of them did it first.
 
#64
icecycle66 said:
All the quotes below are exactly what I am talking about when I say that if anyone says anything against, or not in praise of, James Jamerson then they are wrong. The person is ignorant, stupid, uneducated, immature, or just plan and inarguably wrong.

There have been originals since the first person who drew back a bow string. Jamersons’ lines are no more complex than anything Zappa or Hamm have written. They are no more soulful than what Kaye played. He wasn’t ever particularly novel in comparison to his contemporaries.

All you old timers who look back through the scope of nostalgia should become more objective when saying that Jamerson was so great. Just like when you say Edison was so wonderful, you forget about Tesla. Just because someone is the “first” (quotes because he wasn’t, bass wasn’t invented in the 1950’s) does not mean they were particularly good.

Just because the Model T was the “first” car, does that mean it is better than a Toyota Corolla? Just because the Fender P-Bass was the “first” does that mean it is better than a Pedulla Rapture.

It’s cool if you like the guy. It’s cool if you think he is the source from which all skill and inspiration floweth. But good god, just because someone disagrees with you it does not mean that person is a fool.

You can tell me all day everyday that Cliff Burton was an incompetent poser. You can lambast me for thinking Nick Schendzielos is a damn wizard. You can look at me condescendingly because I do now, and always will, think Jaco could play soulful and skillful circles around Jamerson. That’s fine, you don’t like these guys whatever, I’m not going to call you a fool for not conforming to what I think a bass player should think like.


“You must be GREAT...I'll put you on DDD's 100 greatest list...right between Jamerson and Entwisle LOL”

“I was expecting this to be a troll thread via the title lol. Man he sure was a beast! One of my all time favorite basslines right there.”

“I suspect you are underestimating the harmonic depth of his parts. Surely the average Berklee graduate could pull them apart quickly, but they don't yield quickly to mere mortals.

Besides, he did it 40 years ago, before anybody else did exactly what he was doing. Pop music bass was much less sophisticated, and while jazz (and the jazzy side of pop) utilized some of the concepts, the way he put them together was fairly unique, to me as a young person.

So it's a little like saying "I don't get all the fuss over Thomas Edison. I can go to walMart and find thousands of light bulbs."”

“i always wonder the age of people that say they dont get whats so great about jamerson. a lot times the younger players just dont get the history of it. after jamerson you had everybody grooving like that, or trying to at least. people that dont know the timeline in the history of it all just dont realize there was NO ONE and nothing like that before jamerson.”

“Very profound. People sometimes fail to appreciate the context that the older artists worked in. Quite simply, music like Motown never existed until Motown, and Jamerson was at the forefront of making it happen. It's really easy to be a Monday morning quarterback. People don't have to like Motown music, but respect is most definitely due.”

“Why all the fuss? Because he was the originator, and still the best.

He "wrote" these parts on the fly, often drunk off his a$$, laid them down in a single take, and never forget them. Us mere mortals have to struggle to do any one of these things, and generally never get them all together.”
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Wow, I finally found it...the dumbest thing on the internet. I must confess, I was starting to think I'd never stumble across it, but here it is.
 
#67
If you have to explain Jamerson to anyone just stop quickly, step back, smile and move away just in case its "catchy"!!
There are so many people in the pop state of mind that believe Enwhistle, Sting, Jerrad Getty? sorry can't think of his first name. I'm trying my damnest to get what these players are laying down and I don't get it to be honest. So I guess theres folks out there who don't get what the Funk Bros. were all about. I think it comes down to playing parts instead of extended riffs and forever lines of repetition. The Jamerson way of "quartering" down compared to the fellow in the who rolling quarter notes over an over. Oh well I guess it helps to have a solid pocket strong drummer instead of a free lance no structure guy. Its like the inner city groove vs the country rock feel. hahahahaha!!!! Its all what each of us understand, and I'm glad we have so many choices.
Anybody here remember JB's first bassman Tim? now that guy said more with less better than anyone ever. Doc
 
#68
JimmyM said:
There is an old saying...to be considered a legend, you either have to be the best or you have to be first. Jamerson was first. Nobody ever played like that before him. The jazz players who took up electric before he did pretty much mimicked what they did on upright. The pop and rock bass players before him did the basic "fill the bottom and get out of the way" playing. Jamerson was first. Sure, better bass players came along afterward, but none of them did it first.
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Jimmy proves a point I don't think anyone else has considered. What made him the first call was the fact he did not need a P-bass. Here's my favorite line(s)

‪Stevie Wonder - Shoo-Be-Doo-Be-Doo-Da-Day‬‏ - YouTube

He could swing with the upright bringing all his textural brilliance into the fold and when he went electric he imparted upon some of the worlds greatest vocalists their own distinct sound. Yes it was the Motown sound but each group or artist had their own signature sound for the time they were in Detroit.
 
#69
Doctor Dirt said:
Anybody here remember JB's first bassman Tim? now that guy said more with less better than anyone ever. Doc
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Tim Drummond was indeed a terrific bassist who in addition to playing JB style "funk" also recorded and toured extensively with artists ranging in style from funk, rock, country, pop, and folk. Drummond was replaced in Browns ensemble by Sweet Charles Sherrell after Tim came down with hepatitus. Tim was not JB's first bassist (of note). That would be Bernard Odum.
 
#72
Doctor Dirt said:
If you have to explain Jamerson to anyone just stop quickly, step back, smile and move away just in case its "catchy"!!
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And therein lies the problem - trying to explain the unexplainable. It kind of reminds me of how some people feel about James Brown. They listen to the deceptive simplicity of JB's grooves and say, "Anybody can play that!" I always say, "You put a band together, play live or record some JB, then get back to me. Or better yet, WRITE some new grooves, play them live or record them, then get back to me." It's too easy to wait for someone else to create something, then supposedly "improve" on it. Zappa's awesome, but I'd like some links to where the bass lines in his songs are as soulful, groove-filled, and beautiful as Jamerson's. I'd also like some links to where somebody is doing the Jamerson thing BEFORE Jamerson.
 
#73
I didn't grow up on motown or r&b at all - mostly blues, rock, punk, and early metal. Then into jazz, funk, folk, bluegrass ... only VERY late did I start to give some attention to the original motown stuff. As someone who came late to this game, my opinion is that Jamerson very much deserves his reputation.

All vocal-oriented music requires parts (and players to play them) that support and augment the vocal performance. That's what Jamerson did, that's what any topnotch bassist does. I don't really care about anything else a player does than that.
 
#74
There was only one Motown records and their sound wasn't just Jamerson, you have to give credit to the arrangers, writers and the players, having said that I do realize this board is bass centric. :D

I'm pretty sure at the time there were a number of bassist of the same caliber as Jamerson or better or even not so better that could have also delivered the Motown sound and we would be raving about them, but Jamerson was in the right place at the right time and the rest is history. This doesn't take anything away from him, it just acknowledges all of the other things involved in creating a sound and hit records. Lastly, music was his 9 to 5, that will refine your playing of a particular genre like nothing else.
 
#76
Phil Smith said:
There was only one Motown records and their sound wasn't just Jamerson, you have to give credit to the arrangers, writers and the players, having said that I do realize this board is bass centric. :D
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The bass is what made Motown special over the other similar types of music out there. Of course the writers and arrangers were important, but the bass is what gave all those songs their gravy. If not for the bass, Motown would have been good music with nothing really distinguishable from other music of its day.

I'm pretty sure at the time there were a number of bassist of the same caliber as Jamerson or better or even not so better that could have also delivered the Motown sound and we would be raving about them, but Jamerson was in the right place at the right time and the rest is history.
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If this is true, how come nobody else was doing it before he did it? Besides, these hypothetical arguments mean nothing. I used to hear this a lot with the Beatles..."If not for the Beatles, it would have been the Stones or the Dave Clark Five..." Well it WASN'T the Stones or the Dave Clark Five, it was the Beatles. If not for the Beatles, every band in England would have sounded like The Shadows or Cliff Richard.
 
#77
Phil Smith said:
There was only one Motown records and their sound wasn't just Jamerson, you have to give credit to the arrangers, writers and the players, having said that I do realize this board is bass centric. :D

I'm pretty sure at the time there were a number of bassist of the same caliber as Jamerson or better or even not so better that could have also delivered the Motown sound and we would be raving about them, but Jamerson was in the right place at the right time and the rest is history. This doesn't take anything away from him, it just acknowledges all of the other things involved in creating a sound and hit records. Lastly, music was his 9 to 5, that will refine your playing of a particular genre like nothing else.
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Quite true to the credit you give the arrangers, producers, and other musicians...but that said...there WERE other Motown bassists in Motowns early days...quite credible guys like Tony Newton and others...but NONE od them created the melodic syncopation Jamerson developed, and couple that with the magical one-two punch that Jamerson developed with Benny Benjamin giving new meaning to the concept of "locking" the groove made those tracks something extra special. It wasn't a freestyle "competition" for attention like Entwislte and Moon presented...but something new and different in popular music...and it was Jamerson (not the others) that made it happen.
 
#79
JimmyM said:
The bass is what made Motown special over the other similar types of music out there. Of course the writers and arrangers were important, but the bass is what gave all those songs their gravy. If not for the bass, Motown would have been good music with nothing really distinguishable from other music of its day.
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Having grown up listing to this stuff on 45's and transistor radios, I beg to differ. :D
 

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