• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Double Bass Why are 5-String (low B) upright basses so rare?

K

Kevan Campbell

Bergantino Artist
Supporting Member
Jun 15, 2008
2,161
3,285
Nashville, TN
#1
Hey y’all! I’ve been wanting to get into upright since last summer when I rented a student 3/4 4-string upright, but as an electric bassist I’m almost exclusively a 5-string player.

My question for the TB collective wisdom is “Is there a reason that few people play a 5-string upright bass?”. I’ve searched through the threads on the DB side here but am still unsure if the relative scarcity of seeing these basses in the wild being played is due to a structural component (the average double bass isn’t made to be effectively loud and sound good with 5 strings and a low B), precedent (4-string uprights have been around a lot longer) or some other reason...

My goal is to play country music (old, Texas, Nashville, bro...whatever) both with my fingers and with a bow. However I’m a bit unclear if it’s wise to jump straight into a 5-string upright or if there’s a reason to start on a 4.

Thanks for reading, I’m looking forward to gettin’ schooled!
 
#7
KUNGfuSHERIFF said:
They’re not rare in Europe, especially Germany.

Problem one is that your average 3/4 bass struggles to pump fundamental of the low E. The box is just too small. Going down another fifth is worse.

Problem two is that when you’re not playing it the B string is in the way.
Click to expand...

My apologies, I should have worded my original post to more accurately say “in my limited experience they seem incredibly rare”.

Is the B “in the way” only for bowing?
 
#8
matthewbrown said:
Karl Hoyt, a local luthier who works on a lot of basses, told me that the low string is usually just "too flabby."
Click to expand...

Do you happen to know if anyone makes an upright that’s engineered for 5 strings including a low B?

Francois Blais said:
5 strings are putting even more pressure on the top.
You’ll find many basses with a low-C extension on the E string.
That’s probably the best solution.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the recommendation on the low-C extension!
 
#10
image.jpeg

Kevan Campbell said:
Hey y’all! I’ve been wanting to get into upright since last summer when I rented a student 3/4 4-string upright, but as an electric bassist I’m almost exclusively a 5-string player.

My question for the TB collective wisdom is “Is there a reason that few people play a 5-string upright bass?”. I’ve searched through the threads on the DB side here but am still unsure if the relative scarcity of seeing these basses in the wild being played is due to a structural component (the average double bass isn’t made to be effectively loud and sound good with 5 strings and a low B), precedent (4-string uprights have been around a lot longer) or some other reason...

My goal is to play country music (old, Texas, Nashville, bro...whatever) both with my fingers and with a bow. However I’m a bit unclear if it’s wise to jump straight into a 5-string upright or if there’s a reason to start on a 4.

Thanks for reading, I’m looking forward to gettin’ schooled!
Click to expand...

Your five string electric is common for country music and the written parts for musicals. Similarly the 'double bass', (meaning it doubles the cello part) go's down to 'C', the lowest note on a cello. The bass has a large classical catalog wrtten down to that cello 'C'. Problem is, it is hard to find a double bass fiver that sounds great (imho). I have not seen any.

Many awesome double basses started out as 3 gut string basses. Turn of the last century these basses were being converted to 4 gut strings and even bass experts like Charles Winterbottom were experimenting with 5 strings over a hundred years ago. In the '60s steel strings come along and there are conversions of 3 and 4 string basses to 5 strings, putting more pressure on the top table.

The sound of a strangled bass is not what we desire. I have not come across a great sounding 5 string bass, but I'm sure they are out there. Yes German symphonies love 5 string basses.

Some have reported that adding an extension to their 4 string has opened up all the bass notes.

The Contrabass Shoppe has a fine 1969 Lant bass for sale that started life as a five string. They found this bass had a thick top and did not sound right, did some alteration and converted it to a four string, with a thinner table, and now sounds great. Perhaps this classical bass should of been a four string with extension all along. The thick table top may be common with purpose built fives.

English orchestral double bass by Ernest Francis Lant circa 1969 - #2699 from the double bass specialists Contrabass Shoppe

So to answer your question, it is hard to find a great sounding fiver. If they don't sound great they should be rare (and are, at least in NA). The symphony guys play the written orchestral music by adding an extension on their beautiful four strings. Other types of music can be played just fine without going lower than 'E'.

I'm sure there are some who will note they have an awesome fiver and love playing down to 'C' and 'B'. I would play an awesome sounding five string bass, but have not heard any.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: DrayMiles, Kevan Campbell, Neil Pye and 1 other person
#11
To be effective as a 5 String bass with a low B, They have to have a large rectangular plate and enough string length to mechanically work that plate in a big pumping up and down motion. A narrow waist and/or a narrow upper bout isn't going to make much noise. A string length of less than 42" isn't going to make much noise. I like 5 strings to sound like an organ in a good sized church. Big and low.
 
  • Like
Reactions: groooooove, james condino, Kevan Campbell and 1 other person
#14
Kevan Campbell said:
“Is there a reason that few people play a 5-string upright bass?”
Click to expand...

As a data point, Kay began offering 5-string basses in 1939, producing around 2,000 by '61. They're not particularly rare, though most are strung with the high C, and their engineering is the same as the 4-string models. Table pressure is important, and modern, higher-tension strings tend to aggravate that problem.
 
  • Like
Reactions: groooooove
#16
On topic, there's also the issue of string spacing and right hand technique. I've never played a 5-string upright but the string spacing is the reason I stick with 4 strings on electric. If you play with a light touch it may not be an issue, but especially for country and roots music, the ability to get a big meaty pizz sound on db could be more difficult without as much room between the strings. Seems like you'd also have to have a lot of radius to the bridge also to make arco feasible. But I bet it'd be pretty thunderous if done right!
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheBear
#20
Came across the same problems when I started looking for an upright. Made the switch to fivers on EB years ago and wanted to find a five string upright. Bought the first one I literally could find. My teacher scowled at it, but said "we would have to work around it".

Acoustically, there is a distinct drop off playing pizz on the B, not so much arco. Amplified, different story, low B has some authority.

Bass in the foreground happens to be in the way, but that's my 7/8 busetto fiver in the background.

FB_IMG_1545592997503.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheBear and basspraiser

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back